Exercise and the middle aged

A lot of people who don't exercise are just naturally tuned to totally disregard such self-activity. If you remember your school years - and the kids who loved sports, PE, running about, and the kids who hated it and didn't want to do it. Seems to be something intrinsic in human nature that makes us different. I know a few friends that smoke and do no meaningful exercise but are very intelligent and well educated. One of my friends says that being a smoker is ingrained into her identity, and she is quite aware it will shorten her life expectancy which she fully accepts. The sporty fit friends i have display a inner motivation to get out and exercise like an real inner-need. I know my bicycle doubles as a keep fit machine and natural endorphin producing antidepressant, wouldn't want to live without it.

Debs

Many people in that generation just have no culture of exercise. It just is not what that social group consider normal behaviour. Their parents never did it. It just does not register. Many also genuinely don't have time, and some of them that do don't see prioritising exercise as good use of time. They are knackered after a long day at work-now you want them to go out and do more? it is something that other people do. Lots also perceive exercise as sweaty gyms, aerobic classes etc. Walking is what poor people do who cannot afford a car or to take the bus, it is not something you do for your health to them.

My mum shopped every day and walked there and back. Now we shop once a week and carry heavy bags back from the shop in the car; walking not an option. We live on polluted streets, or where road crossings and urban design have constrained the options to walk. Parks have shrunk and are dodgy at night, ditto the canal towpath. Solo woman going for a walk at night in the city. Wise? Walk city streets in the USA you get arrested for jaywalking I think!

In my rural area they may live where the streets go up serious hills. It rains here too. If they have a car why on earth would they walk?

I think we need to try to see the world through the eyes of this group to contemplate how to change it. Anyone who thinks it is about simple interventions is, er, simple.

Believe me there is a huge body of work that has looked at how to achieve these behavioural changes.

Bruce

Where I live there is currently a consultation on how to increase active travel - walking or cycling, focussing on regular trips like commuting to work or travel to school, and in conversations with some people I find it amazing how many say yes, its a good idea - but won't do it themselves.

I find I have actualky hardened in my own commitment to cycling to work over the years since living close enough for it to be practicable, now doing in all weathers except icy or when rain is heavy enough to drench me on the to-work leg despite waterproofs. It is only a short ride - 10 minutes riding time to work, and 15-20 home, but I have come to value it highly as my one significant regular exercise (as opposedto walks or other activities that are less frequent or regular). When sometimes it takes half an hour struggling against a gale force wind and driving rain to make the uphill journey home I do have to remind myself that it is keeping me fit, and saving me money, and reducing pollution/CO2 emissions, and that does help a little... But living somewhere that has more than its fair share of wind and rain does put off a lot of people, so it will probably take strong, erm, encouragement like reduction of car parking in towns other than short term linked to shopping, and various restrictive road measures before any significant proportion of car commuters will take to the streets on foot or bike.

When I was still in work, the building was quite spread out and on four floors.  I very rarely took the lift (usually only when I needed to continue a conversation with a colleague whilst we moved between meetings); and whenever I could do so without causing a problem for others I would run up the stairs.  Most of my colleagues used the lifts.

Now retired, I go shopping on foot at least five times a week - about 3/4 mile each way and including a steep hill (30% incline).  Even though I've had to slow down a bit recently (for reasons of changed social expectations), I still ensure that push myself on the uphill leg - particularly if no-one's watching! 

I post this to highlight two things.  Firstly there's ways to include a modicum of 'informal' exercise into everyday life.  Secondly there are constraints of social expectations placed on some people that reduce their ability to do this.

I'm compelled to get up early each morning and, rain, shine, snow, wind, I have to go for a long walk in the country. Then again, after lunch, when I'd far rather be chilling out and having a wee snooze, I'm out again for a long walk in the etc. etc.

Dogs.

Apologies to everyone if using the term 'stupid'  has caused any offence....

Moderated Post:  A small edit - it reads better this way.  

Huge posted:

When I was still in work, the building was quite spread out and on four floors.  I very rarely took the lift (usually only when I needed to continue a conversation with a colleague whilst we moved between meetings); and whenever I could do so without causing a problem for others I would run up the stairs.  Most of my colleagues used the lifts.

Now retired, I go shopping on foot at least five times a week - about 3/4 mile each way and including a steep hill (30% incline).  Even though I've had to slow down a bit recently (for reasons of changed social expectations), I still ensure that push myself on the uphill leg - particularly if no-one's watching! 

I post this to highlight two things.  Firstly there's ways to include a modicum of 'informal' exercise into everyday life.  Secondly there are constraints of social expectations placed on some people that reduce their ability to do this.

Intrigued - is that not going fast to be perverse because socially you are expected to, or is it going slow because socially you are exoected to?

Incidentally, I thought only haggis had uphill legs...

It's going slower because socially I'm expected expected to.

And I'm not a pudding* -  my BMI is 23.6! 

*  "Great chieftain o the puddin'-race!"  -   "Address to a Haggis", Robert Burns

Innocent Bystander posted:

Where I live there is currently a consultation on how to increase active travel - walking or cycling, focussing on regular trips like commuting to work or travel to school, and in conversations with some people I find it amazing how many say yes, its a good idea - but won't do it themselves.

I find I have actually hardened in my own commitment to cycling to work over the years since living close enough for it to be practicable, now doing in all weathers except icy or when rain is heavy enough to drench me on the to-work leg despite waterproofs. It is only a short ride - 10 minutes riding time to work, and 15-20 home, but I have come to value it highly as my one significant regular exercise (as opposed to walks or other activities that are less frequent or regular). When sometimes it takes half an hour struggling against a gale force wind and driving rain to make the uphill journey home I do have to remind myself that it is keeping me fit, and saving me money, and reducing pollution/CO2 emissions, and that does help a little... But living somewhere that has more than its fair share of wind and rain does put off a lot of people, so it will probably take strong, erm, encouragement like reduction of car parking in towns other than short term linked to shopping, and various restrictive road measures before any significant proportion of car commuters will take to the streets on foot or bike.

My commitment to commuting by bike has become something of an obsession for me. I do it year round in (nearly) all weathers (although the black ice brought me undone last December). I get cranky if I have to miss a day, often doing extra the next day to compensate. I derive such satisfaction and enjoyment from my commute that I too, am baffled why as to why more people don't do it. Many, many people I work with could easily do it, but don't. We have excellent facilities at the office and few real excuses.

Fitness and exercise fanatics are almost as insufferable as reformed smokers.

winkyincanada posted:

My commitment to commuting by bike has become something of an obsession for me. I do it year round in (nearly) all weathers (although the black ice brought me undone last December). I get cranky if I have to miss a day, often doing extra the next day to compensate. I derive such satisfaction and enjoyment from my commute that I too, am baffled why as to why more people don't do it. Many, many people I work with could easily do it, but don't. We have excellent facilities at the office and few real excuses.

The last place i worked was hopeless for cycle commuter facilities, no showers, no changing room, no sympathy, and the cycle shed that was nearby to building was disbanded [removed] for expansion of work space, and an new purpose built 'swipe card access cage' for employee bicycle parking designated to a part of the nearby outdoor car park which was 200 meters up the road away from the work building, well within public domane-access so with no secure peace of mind, and the cycle 'cage' had no overhead weather protection at all. It was like the firm wanted to strongly dissuade [or punish] employees from cycle commuting, Oddly the car park was too small for the day shift, and insecure on the nightshift with many break-ins and vandalism. Apparently the cycle park cage was very easy to break into too.

I guess it calls into mind the need for more employers to provide adequate facilities for cyclists, and not just for a mile away local staff but further afield commuting where a shower and changing room would be welcome, and with a proper secure indoor bike park. The win win situation is the firm gains more car parking space or will need less area for it, and a fitter & healthier staff members [who don't pong of body odour].

Having some form of neurological disorder, it's difficult for me to walk at a slow pace. If I was to manage a brisk walk for 10 minutes without falling over I'd be well chuffed.  A brisk ride on a bike for 40 minutes amounts to the same, which I try to do every other day.

I developed Type 2 Diabetes three years ago, and soon after retired. Diet was sorted, and attention paid to the medical advice to exercise to keep the circulation up to snuff. So I walk at least two miles a day, headphones on, making sure that my extremities don't fall off. But I have to force myself because tramping the streets can be very dull.

We're looking to move to a cheaper house, which means more rural, and one of the things I'm driving my wife mad with is, is the necessity of being able to walk somewhere directly from the new house - I know that if I have to drive somewhere to walk I'll not do it with enough regularity.

P.S. on the subject of walking in America, we spent a year or so living in Dover, Delaware and I walked as much as I could - but it was a lonely activity...the sidewalks were mine and I got cheery hails from folk sitting on their porches and verandas as they saw the clearly mad Englishman not driving his car. Lovely way to get to know a charming city though (things were a bit different living in Queens however!)

Social expectations be damned!

I think a health shock of some kind is the most effective way. 16 years ago I was diagnosed with peripheral arterial disease (basically blocked arteries behind my knee that constricted the blood flow to my lower leg and meant a cramp like pain after a short period of brisk walking). Until then I smoked half an ounce of baccy a day and was of the view I was more scared of turning into a smug self righteous git than I was of cancer. People in the same ward were having their legs amputated - some kept smoking after their first amputation and were in for their second one. I was lucky that a bypass could help me. I could take a hint and gave up smoking immediately. I also discovered (for myself, I wasn't told by any medic) that regular brisk walking would help to grow collaterals that would increase my pain free walking range. I took this on board and now have a brisk walk every day - it has worked well and I can walk all day at a normal pace. I need to walk extremely fast to trigger the pain (which is a good thing as it stimulates collateral blood vessel growth).

My point is that information for many people needs to be personally relevant - more regular and thorough health checks would provide a basis for this. What people do with that information is up to them but it would be more meaningful to say "you'll lose a leg in the next year" than there is an x% increased chance of a problem. 

Two other issues resonate with me: being smug and self righteous can be more obnoxious to others than passive smoking; and some people just don't like exercise and that's their legitimate choice. If the NHS denies treatment to the obese then they should also deny it to to extreme aged health freaks as they slowly decay over their 10th and 11th decades with the diseases of extreme old age and their associated care needs. We are all going to die of something and I have been tempted to get a tee shirt made on the lines of "Why save yourself for Alzheimers?". Education yes, but not compulsion or rationing of care.

tonym posted:

I'm compelled to get up early each morning and, rain, shine, snow, wind, I have to go for a long walk in the country. Then again, after lunch, when I'd far rather be chilling out and having a wee snooze, I'm out again for a long walk in the etc. etc.

Dogs.

Dogs are indeed a great motivator to exercise regularly.  They expect at least two decent walks a day and they definitely want you to lead, so there's no opening the door and just expecting them to get on with it. But they are so enthusiastic at getting outdoors and into all the wonderful smells of fox, badger, squirrel etc.. that what might be a chore becomes a joy, even when the weather does its worst.

And if dogs are not quite your thing then there are other alternatives.  A pair of sisters in the local village are regularly seen out and about walking together with their ferrets on leads.  I'm told they are well into their 80s (the sisters, not the ferrets) but they look much, much younger, so I guess ferrets keep you fit just as well as dogs.

Dozey posted:

Social expectations be damned!

Easy for you to say that!

Pev posted:

 

...If the NHS denies treatment to the obese then they should also deny it to to extreme aged health freaks as they slowly decay over their 10th and 11th decades with the diseases of extreme old age and their associated care needs. We are all going to die of something and I have been tempted to get a tee shirt made on the lines of "Why save yourself for Alzheimers?". Education yes, but not compulsion or rationing of care.

But Alzheimers isn't caused by old age, it just when it's more likely to happen. Minor or early signs of dementia may begin when many people reach their 40s. It's not clear what the causes are.

Personally i believe the dementia risk is raised with people who are less active but probably caused mainly by a poor modern fast food diet. 

Regarding the possible causes of dementia, there was an interesting article a while back  in one of the papers that saw some correlation between high dementia rates and countries that fortify foods (wheat in particular) with iron, such as the UK and the USA.  This was reinforced by examining the the brains of deceased dementia patients are finding areas that looked like rust deposits. It's still early days though and further research is needed, but I have to admit that after I read it I decided to cut out any non-organic wheat in my diet.  These days I mostly eat Rye or organic spelt...

 

But Alzheimers isn't caused by old age, it just when it's more likely to happen. Minor or early signs of dementia may begin when many people reach their 40s. It's not clear what the causes are.

 

I don't disagree but the point I was trying to make is that people with healthy lifestyles will likely end up costing more in various forms of care over their extended lifespan. Ultimately, how people choose to live is their choice - it should be an informed choice, but I don't agree with idea that some choices are morally superior in any way or that compulsion has a place.

Richard Dane posted:

Regarding the possible causes of dementia, there was an interesting article a while back  in one of the papers that saw some correlation between high dementia rates and countries that fortify foods (wheat in particular) with iron, such as the UK and the USA.  This was reinforced by examining the the brains of deceased dementia patients are finding areas that looked like rust deposits. It's still early days though and further research is needed, but I have to admit that after I read it I decided to cut out any non-organic wheat in my diet.  These days I mostly eat Rye or organic spelt...

I have recently read a similar article,  and having been told by a specialist about 18 months ago, that I need to go glutton free, I wasn't that displeased....

wenger2015 posted:

Richard Dane posted:

Regarding the possible causes of dementia, there was an interesting article a while back  in one of the papers that saw some correlation between high dementia rates and countries that fortify foods (wheat in particular) with iron, such as the UK and the USA.  This was reinforced by examining the the brains of deceased dementia patients are finding areas that looked like rust deposits. It's still early days though and further research is needed, but I have to admit that after I read it I decided to cut out any non-organic wheat in my diet.  These days I mostly eat Rye or organic spelt...

I have recently read a similar article,  and having been told by a specialist about 18 months ago, that I need to go glutton free, I wasn't that displeased....

I strongly suspect the deviant ingredient is the 1950s evil invention of corn-syrup.

Dementia seems to rising in step to the lucrative business success of McDonalds...

So many generalizations here and so many excuses for people who don't exercise. People who have a physical or mental issue that stops them exercising is obviously not an excuse. Living in an area which genuinely puts constraints on when/how someone exercises is obviously a problem, but to say people work long hours or have kids or are tired after a long day's work is nonsense imo (unless they're tired from physical activity, in which case they've already done it). It takes discipline to be fit, eat healthy, not smoke, not drink, etc... If people don't want to exercise at all, then that's fine, but don't make excuses for them. Get up earlier. Tired from a day in the office is in the mind, not the body. Go for a jog/cycle/walk and you will feel refreshed. I've come home at 8pm many times after a 250+ mile journey, unpacked, not eaten yet and gone out for a 15 min run. I didn't feel like it whatsoever, but I knew the refreshed feeling I'll experience for the rest of the evening after. I have a friend, who I also follow on Facebook and it amazes me when I see the amount of effort she puts into life. She runs at a ridiculous early hour in the morning, goes to work on long journeys every day, gets back to feed her two kids, then takes them out about 3+ times a week on their hobbies and at weekends does loads of activities. She doesn't make an issue about it, I just notice it and notice most others who do nothing except tv and pub. Yes, there are people who excessively exercise, but they've turned it into a hobby where the feeling of being very fit is a high. 

Timmo1341 posted:

Fitness and exercise fanatics are almost as insufferable as reformed smokers.

Aren't we?

Also there's a big alcohol problem in the uk. Everything involves getting tanked up. I enjoy a few beers with the lads but it's getting a bit much. It's not helping at all.