Exercise and the middle aged

count.d posted:

So many generalizations here and so many excuses for people who don't exercise. People who have a physical or mental issue that stops them exercising is obviously not an excuse. Living in an area which genuinely puts constraints on when/how someone exercises is obviously a problem, but to say people work long hours or have kids or are tired after a long day's work is nonsense imo (unless they're tired from physical activity, in which case they've already done it). It takes discipline to be fit, eat healthy, not smoke, not drink, etc... If people don't want to exercise at all, then that's fine, but don't make excuses for them. Get up earlier. Tired from a day in the office is in the mind, not the body. Go for a jog/cycle/walk and you will feel refreshed. I've come home at 8pm many times after a 250+ mile journey, unpacked, not eaten yet and gone out for a 15 min run. I didn't feel like it whatsoever, but I knew the refreshed feeling I'll experience for the rest of the evening after. I have a friend, who I also follow on Facebook and it amazes me when I see the amount of effort she puts into life. She runs at a ridiculous early hour in the morning, goes to work on long journeys every day, gets back to feed her two kids, then takes them out about 3+ times a week on their hobbies and at weekends does loads of activities. She doesn't make an issue about it, I just notice it and notice most others who do nothing except tv and pub. Yes, there are people who excessively exercise, but they've turned it into a hobby where the feeling of being very fit is a high. 

 

That is your approach to it, and you don't understand others who are different. Yes, it is a matter of mind, but that is not always as easy to change as someone not in that place might think. Personally I have always hated running, and neven as a child, and never have done and never will, whatever anyone says. (But as indicated I walk and cycle, though cycling is not for enjoyment, rather for translirt and exercise combined.

And Some of us are night people Not morning people, and I never cease to be amazed at the holier-than-thou attitude common to the latter. Also, some people are 'non-responders', who will never become super-fit whatever they do. But the key is to do enough exercise to keep healthy, including sufficiently active to exercise the heart, hence the recommendation of i minimum of 10 minutes a day brisk walking 

Innocent Bystander, you've managed to agree and disagree with everything I've said. 

I don't do mornings at all, but there again I don't make excuses for not doing exercise. If I don't do it for spells, I call myself lazy and don't hide the fact.

count.d posted:

Innocent Bystander, you've managed to agree and disagree with everything I've said. 

I don't t do mornings at all, but there again I don't make excuses for not doing exercise. If I don't do it for spells, I call myself lazy and don't hide the fact.

Because in part I agree and in part disagree!

tonym posted:

I'm compelled to get up early each morning and, rain, shine, snow, wind, I have to go for a long walk in the country. Then again, after lunch, when I'd far rather be chilling out and having a wee snooze, I'm out again for a long walk in the etc. etc.

Dogs.

Likewise. Dogs are good for mental health too. 

Tiny, Richard and others have alluded to dog ownership as a good solution. I wholeheartedly concur.... Not for everyone of course, but they work for me.

Stu

The news today of so many middle aged people increasing their heart rate for only 10 minutes per month left me in shock. I had to read it twice! Odin and Thor just laughed at such puny human effort. Of course we are all different, but we have a responsibility to ourselves and society at large (including the NHS, and Valhalla) to do what we can to keep ourselves as healthy as we can for as long as we can. And, of course, it goes without saying that there are some who need a lot of support.

There will come a point when we all need support. We were smug about our 'active' 12000 steps a day immortal status until Mrs Loki had a TIA last year with none of the risk factors apparent. On the other hand the Odin Father suffered a heart attack on his 700th birthday brought on by a 'full fat' lifestyle and being 6 stone over weight: exercise was anathema to him after his duelling days until a triple by-pass was required. 

The difficulty is motivating the sedentary to move away from an addictive and destructive lifestyle. That takes education, resources and time, and for some, that will be too little too late.

p. posted:

Interesting discussion, let me contribute with another view:

Whats wrong with people deciding to enjoy life not with sports and healthy lifestyle - but with smoking, drinking, eating and being lazy?

 

Nothing wrong with it per se; but why the hell should I have to pay tax to fund the inevitable disproportionate healthcare costs that occur as a consequence of this lifestyle choice?

Being a head chef for a Thai Restaurant. There is nothing like having a bus load of punters turn up and a wall of orders to get that blood pumping.  

TOBYJUG posted:

Being a head chef for a Thai Restaurant. There is nothing like having a bus load of punters turn up and a wall of orders to get that blood pumping.  

And yet again, the exploding sausage completely fails to convey any meaning.

Drewy posted:

Also there's a big alcohol problem in the uk. Everything involves getting tanked up. I enjoy a few beers with the lads but it's getting a bit much. It's not helping at all.

The routine late night drunken-ness in town centres, the UK was, for me, one of the major drawbacks of living in the UK. Disgusting and scary.

count.d posted:

So many generalizations here and so many excuses for people who don't exercise. People who have a physical or mental issue that stops them exercising is obviously not an excuse. Living in an area which genuinely puts constraints on when/how someone exercises is obviously a problem, but to say people work long hours or have kids or are tired after a long day's work is nonsense imo (unless they're tired from physical activity, in which case they've already done it). It takes discipline to be fit, eat healthy, not smoke, not drink, etc... If people don't want to exercise at all, then that's fine, but don't make excuses for them. Get up earlier. Tired from a day in the office is in the mind, not the body. Go for a jog/cycle/walk and you will feel refreshed. I've come home at 8pm many times after a 250+ mile journey, unpacked, not eaten yet and gone out for a 15 min run. I didn't feel like it whatsoever, but I knew the refreshed feeling I'll experience for the rest of the evening after. I have a friend, who I also follow on Facebook and it amazes me when I see the amount of effort she puts into life. She runs at a ridiculous early hour in the morning, goes to work on long journeys every day, gets back to feed her two kids, then takes them out about 3+ times a week on their hobbies and at weekends does loads of activities. She doesn't make an issue about it, I just notice it and notice most others who do nothing except tv and pub. Yes, there are people who excessively exercise, but they've turned it into a hobby where the feeling of being very fit is a high. 

 

There's a difference between excuses and reasons. Who is going to look after your kids if you want to go out for a run but you are a single parent with no spare cash? Or if you are a couple but when you get in the other parent goes out to start his work shift because you cannot afford child care on your zero hours contracts? When are you getting time to exercise if after work you also have to cook, clean and sit with an elderly relative who is blind and confused but only gets two 10 minute social care visits a day? All real situations. Reasons, not excuses.

I challenge people to make healthy changes all the time; but to do this well I need to understand the barriers. Walk a mile in another man's shoes etc. It is a core role I have as a professional, and I've done a great deal of work and study to explore how to do it well. One thing that does not work is me saying 'look, I work long hours, I can manage it'.

Bruce

winkyincanada posted:

TOBYJUG posted:

Being a head chef for a Thai Restaurant. There is nothing like having a bus load of punters turn up and a wall of orders to get that blood pumping.  

And yet again, the exploding sausage completely fails to convey any meaning.

Maybe it is meaningful to a chef, indicating when something goes wrong during cooking (forgetting to prick their skins).

But hopefully the term 'punters' was used only for effect here, as each individual customer, whether alone or in a large group, presumably is, and certainly should be, respected as a valued guest the chef desires to send away with glowing satisfaction (on the part of the customer - which in turn gives the chef that 'kick' that provides job satisfaction). The blood pumping is of course the adrenaline as well as physical activity, risong to the challenge of delivering all the orders to perfection and at the same time.

winkyincanada posted:

Drewy posted:

Also there's a big alcohol problem in the uk. Everything involves getting tanked up. I enjoy a few beers with the lads but it's getting a bit much. It's not helping at all.

The routine late night drunken-ness in town centres, the UK was, for me, one of the major drawbacks of living in the UK. Disgusting and scary.

Fully agree.

 

Nothing wrong with it per se; but why the hell should I have to pay tax to fund the inevitable disproportionate healthcare costs that occur as a consequence of this lifestyle choice?

The same reason lazy people and smokers pay taxes to fund the care of fitness freaks that survive into extreme old age. I can't see how the healthcare costs for the former are either inevitable or disproportionate - they are more likely to die suddenly of a heart attack for a start. As I said above, we will all die of something and I haven't seen any health economics based evidence to back up such assertions - common sense suggests the opposite if anything. 

There is a danger we will classify people as "deserving" or "undeserving" of treatment in a similar way to the 19th century view of poverty.

winkyincanada posted:

TOBYJUG posted:

Being a head chef for a Thai Restaurant. There is nothing like having a bus load of punters turn up and a wall of orders to get that blood pumping.  

And yet again, the exploding sausage completely fails to convey any meaning.

On the contrary, deployment of the exploding sausage takes a fair bit of skill and much thought. I'd give tobyjug 8 of 10 for this one.

Innocent Bystander posted:

winkyincanada posted:

Drewy posted:

Also there's a big alcohol problem in the uk. Everything involves getting tanked up. I enjoy a few beers with the lads but it's getting a bit much. It's not helping at all.

The routine late night drunken-ness in town centres, the UK was, for me, one of the major drawbacks of living in the UK. Disgusting and scary.

Fully agree.

Only really a factor in cities and very large towns.

Pev posted:

 

Nothing wrong with it per se; but why the hell should I have to pay tax to fund the inevitable disproportionate healthcare costs that occur as a consequence of this lifestyle choice?

The same reason lazy people and smokers pay taxes to fund the care of fitness freaks that survive into extreme old age. I can't see how the healthcare costs for the former are either inevitable or disproportionate - they are more likely to die suddenly of a heart attack for a start. As I said above, we will all die of something and I haven't seen any health economics based evidence to back up such assertions - common sense suggests the opposite if anything. 

There is a danger we will classify people as "deserving" or "undeserving" of treatment in a similar way to the 19th century view of poverty.

Actually the social care for the fitness freaks who survive into old age isn't primarily funded from taxes, rather from selling off their assets.  In the case of those who are morbidly obese, smokers or who otherwise damage their own health by lifestyle choice, their medical conditions are usually long term (e.g. for heart conditions, they usually need years of coronary care from the NHS before their final fatal heart attack).

I'm not saying it's wrong for the NHS to provide such care and I'd hate to see doctors put in a position where they have to deny such care.
However, unfortunately there has to be a balancing act for the use of available funds... and that's a political decision.

The reason some people don't exercise is because it's boring and a waste of time.

Think about it. Running is tedious: who wants to be a panting lycra-clad oaf who spends most of his time when not making an idiot of himself pounding the pavements, boring everyone at work with tales of how far he ran yesterday?

Look at gyms: germ-ridden temples of slow death, full of sweaty City types. Cycling is just about OK, but it's the self-righteousness I can't stand, and those stupid helmets and daft outfits. Nice old grannies and vicars cycling round English villages is good, competitive types who think they're Lance frickin' Armstrong is not cool.

Remember, boys and girls: time spent exercising is time you could be using for laying on the sofa smoking, or eating chips.

Kevin-W posted:

The reason some people don't exercise is because it's boring and a waste of time.

Think about it. Running is tedious: who wants to be a panting lycra-clad oaf who spends most of his time when not making an idiot of himself pounding the pavements, boring everyone at work with tales of how far he ran yesterday?

Look at gyms: germ-ridden temples of slow death, full of sweaty City types. Cycling is just about OK, but it's the self-righteousness I can't stand, and those stupid helmets and daft outfits. Nice old grannies and vicars cycling round English villages is good, competitive types who think they're Lance frickin' Armstrong is not cool.

Remember, boys and girls: time spent exercising is time you could be using for laying on the sofa smoking, or eating chips.

I started walking more a couple of years ago. 

I have found lots of new bars since then.

Huge posted:

Innocent Bystander posted:

winkyincanada posted:

Drewy posted:

Also there's a big alcohol problem in the uk. Everything involves getting tanked up. I enjoy a few beers with the lads but it's getting a bit much. It's not helping at all.

The routine late night drunken-ness in town centres, the UK was, for me, one of the major drawbacks of living in the UK. Disgusting and scary.

Fully agree.

Only really a factor in cities and very large towns.

True, and of course in foreign holiday resorts frequented by the same lager louts  (or whatever the current name for them is), and these days seemingly more lager lasses. Even though I avoid the obvious resorts there are places in the world it is embarrassing to admit to being British! 

The amount of exercise recommended as a minimum for health is NOT about being a fitness fitness freak, nor about surviving into extreme old age, but making it to a reasonable age, without succumbing unduly early to heart disease and other health problems . 

And As for fitness freaks, am not sure that there is any evidence that true fitness freaks live longer - possibly the opposite due to strain on their bodies.

You baby boomers and those born into the 50's won't be happy until you have lived past your hundredth year hoovering up every resource. You ruined the housing market for the young and are all now spending your way through your early release pensions 

Then when that's all gone you can get equity release on your properties and once you have spent all that and your reaching your 90's because of all the exercise you've done you can throw yourselves onto the state and all those poor youngsters who can't exercise because they are so knackered from working trying to save a mortgage deposit can then pay all the increased taxes it will take to take care of you. 

Thanks for reminding me about equity release, those Titan 707,s seem just around the corner.

Innocent Bystander posted:

The amount of exercise recommended as a minimum for health is NOT about being a fitness fitness freak, nor about surviving into extreme old age, but making it to a reasonable age, without succumbing unduly early to heart disease and other health problems . 

And As for fitness freaks, am not sure that there is any evidence that true fitness freaks live longer - possibly the opposite due to strain on their bodies.

Anything is possible, I guess.

But regardless of the age of ultimate demise, active people withstand the ravages of aging much better. It is my goal to be active into advanced old-age, and then peg-out quickly. The decades-long period of poor health that my inactive mother is experiencing is not how I want it to be. Better to be like my father, who through maintaining a physically active life is in much better condition in spite of being several years older.