Exercise and the middle aged

It has nothing to do with a healthy old age your all petrified of dying and want to get into those skinny jeans and get out rock n rolling admit it! ; )

Bob the Builder posted:

It has nothing to do with a healthy old age your all petrified of dying and want to get into those skinny jeans and get out rock n rolling admit it! ; )

Can't be long now til the 'Picture my pecs' thread  ;-)

Bob the Builder posted:

You baby boomers and those born into the 50's won't be happy until you have lived past your hundredth year hoovering up every resource. You ruined the housing market for the young and are all now spending your way through your early release pensions 

Then when that's all gone you can get equity release on your properties and once you have spent all that and your reaching your 90's because of all the exercise you've done you can throw yourselves onto the state and all those poor youngsters who can't exercise because they are so knackered from working trying to save a mortgage deposit can then pay all the increased taxes it will take to take care of you. 

That is a sweeping assessment, totally misjudging and quite insulting unless you made it in jest, in which case the humour seems to be unclear. If you meant it seriously I trust you will withdraw it and ensure that it is targetted only at people for whom it might be correct, and not the majority who might happen to be in the so called 'baby boom' generation (just post WW2)

 Bob the Builder  posted:

You baby boomers and those born into the 50's won't be happy until you have lived past your hundredth year hoovering up every resource. You ruined the housing market for the young and are all now spending your way through your early release pensions 

Then when that's all gone you can get equity release on your properties and once you have spent all that and your reaching your 90's because of all the exercise you've done you can throw yourselves onto the state and all those poor youngsters who can't exercise because they are so knackered from working trying to save a mortgage deposit can then pay all the increased taxes it will take to take care of you.  

  With added smiley's for Innocent Bystander  

Innocent Bystander posted:

Bob the Builder posted:

You baby boomers and those born into the 50's won't be happy until you have lived past your hundredth year hoovering up every resource. You ruined the housing market for the young and are all now spending your way through your early release pensions 

Then when that's all gone you can get equity release on your properties and once you have spent all that and your reaching your 90's because of all the exercise you've done you can throw yourselves onto the state and all those poor youngsters who can't exercise because they are so knackered from working trying to save a mortgage deposit can then pay all the increased taxes it will take to take care of you. 

That is a sweeping assessment, totally misjudging and quite insulting unless you made it in jest, in which case the humour seems to be unclear. If you meant it seriously I trust you will withdraw it and ensure that it is targetted only at people for whom it might be correct, and not the majority who might happen to be in the so called 'baby boom' generation (just post WW2)

Lighten up IB - PML @ Bob's post. There is no doubt whatsoever that those of us in the Baby Boomer club are, by and large, pretty fortunate. Take it on the chin and move on!

I agree that it isn't so much about living longer, but having the ability to be active and have quality of life until "the end" comes...

I have a friend who was a nurse in an aging facility, and in his words "It's almost cruel what we can do with drugs to extend peoples' lives", but they are in misery for their last years, unable to enjoy even the most mundane aspects of life. They're existing more than living.

stuart.ashen posted:

Tiny, Richard and others have alluded to dog ownership as a good solution. I wholeheartedly concur.... Not for everyone of course, but they work for me.

Stu

We had a Rhodesian Ridgeback for fourteen and a half years and in her life time I managed to run/walk with her the distance from Chicago to Florida and back and some more. Now, that we have a parakeet, it s completely a different story.

I believe that there are many different reasons/answers why somebody is physically active and somebody else is not never mind the personal's IQ. If being fit is not amongst your wish, priorities and interests the chance to do some kind of exercises is almost zero. Thousands of years ago the people were a running race. Our bodies are designed in a way that no animal on this planet can match the running endurance of the ultra marathon athletes. We just forgot how to do it. Of course this example is to much extreme but step by step a lot of people forgot that there are some other options beside cars to reach a destination (going to work, shopping, have fun by feet etc.). My personal choice is to be active as long as possible according to my indoor and outdoor interests. 

But then again if you share with your friends and colleagues how much you have spent on this lovely HiFi hobby the comments might be interesting And our sanity put to question. 

Am oi fick coz i dunt exercise nor nuffink, whatevva

Does gardening help in exercise?  It is balance, bending, twisting, and walking endlessly around and around my house. Heard a talk on Adaptive Gardening, she said start every session with some stretches and Tai chi. HA! I just get out and stumble around with the hose and clippers in hand.  At 63 kneeling is a problem so I bought workers gel pack knee guards, but standing up again I have to focus.  I used to be a landscaper but with health issues I need to make things simple and take breaks.  I do walk up stairs when I'm in buildings and park away from shops mostly so I don't get those dings from other cars.

Two weeks ago I rebuilt my shed doors - lots of carrying, banding, kneeling, painting, hammering, climbing ladders, etc over the course of the weekend - probably 6+ hours each day. I was physically spent at the end of that effort...no way I could have gone to the gym afterward, and was stiff for a day plus afterward. All I wanted was a shower and to sit down.

A graphic example of how my physical work capacity has diminished with age.  And at least partially the result of having a "sit on my arse" job day in and day out...despite the 1.1 mile walk I do with a colleague each day around the office complex each morning.

'We are what we eat' is a well known saying. There is growing evidence that obesity is caused by foods and drinks high in processed sugars, fats and carbohydrates. These foods are addictive. Even if one intends to eat healthily the odds may be stacked against us because our fruit and veg is not what it once was thanks to the effects of fertilisers. The role of boron in our health is now being understood, along with the way fertilers inhibit its uptake. Boron is important for healthy bones. This might explain why on a healthy dairy diet I was diagnosed with osteopenia some years ago. Might also cause kidney stones.

Another area where medical science is beginning to find explanations is micro-bacteria. You may have read recently that Matt Dawson (member of England's Rugby World Cup winning team) has a serious heart problem after a tick bite in Hyde Park London. He has Lyme disease caused by micro bacteria. Treated after infection full recovery is possible. ME used to be thought of as a disease of the mind, but not so now. There are many different types of micro bacteria which target different parts of the body. It's not just ticks that pass on disease. Micro bacteria are responsible for many inflammatory diseases some of which can lead to cancer. Fungal infections can also become systemic and are linked to diet.

The role of sunlight on health is also becoming better understood. Once upon a time it was thought that it's only role was in vitamin D synthesis, now its role in the production of nitric oxide in skin (epithelial) cells is beginning to be understood. NO is important for its effect on the vascular system, lowering blood pressure. Much research is needed to fully understand its role in our biochemistry, including cancer processes and treatment.

Our health is very complex. We all need much more education in how to live healthily. It's a sad fact that some advice we have been given is completely wrong, such as the role of dairy products in heart disease. The 'healthy' alternatives have now been shown to be unhealthy.

I find fruit to be a much better alternative to carbs and sugar in most snack products. I have lost nearly 18 pounds in four months with this change. One has to resist the demon of sugars and carbs though.

Exercise is important as well though. I like gardening.

I'm not a fan of drugs.

Phil

Filipe posted:

'We are what we eat' is a well known saying. There is growing evidence that obesity is caused by foods and drinks high in processed sugars, fats and carbohydrates. These foods are addictive. Even if one intends to eat healthily the odds may be stacked against us because our fruit and veg is not what it once was thanks to the effects of fertilisers. The role of boron in our health is now being understood, along with the way fertilers inhibit its uptake. Boron is important for healthy bones. This might explain why on a healthy dairy diet I was diagnosed with osteopenia some years ago. Might also cause kidney stones.

Another area where medical science is beginning to find explanations is micro-bacteria. You may have read recently that Matt Dawson (member of England's Rugby World Cup winning team) has a serious heart problem after a tick bite in Hyde Park London. He has Lyme disease caused by micro bacteria. Treated after infection full recovery is possible. ME used to be thought of as a disease of the mind, but not so now. There are many different types of micro bacteria which target different parts of the body. It's not just ticks that pass on disease. Micro bacteria are responsible for many inflammatory diseases some of which can lead to cancer. Fungal infections can also become systemic and are linked to diet.

The role of sunlight on health is also becoming better understood. Once upon a time it was thought that it's only role was in vitamin D synthesis, now its role in the production of nitric oxide in skin (epithelial) cells is beginning to be understood. NO is important for its effect on the vascular system, lowering blood pressure. Much research is needed to fully understand its role in our biochemistry, including cancer processes and treatment.

Our health is very complex. We all need much more education in how to live healthily. It's a sad fact that some advice we have been given is completely wrong, such as the role of dairy products in heart disease. The 'healthy' alternatives have now been shown to be unhealthy.

I find fruit to be a much better alternative to carbs and sugar in most snack products. I have lost nearly 18 pounds in four months with this change. One has to resist the demon of sugars and carbs though.

Exercise is important as well though. I like gardening.

I'm not a fan of drugs.

Phil

Times change. Not so long ago, carbs were our friends and fats and proteins were to be consumed in moderation (protein) or minimally (fats). Fruit and vegetables contain their energy as sugars, and as more complex carbohydrates. The reason you don't get fat eating them is simply that is difficult to take in enough calories as they also contain a lot of indigestible fibre (also good for the health) and a lot of water. The foods that concentrate calories in small packages are the ones to watch out for. High sugar and fat snacks are the main culprit, here. People who want to lose weight now tend to avoid starchy foods like pasta, potatoes and bread. These foods contain complex, long-chain carbohydrates and should be OK by my thinking. The wisdom of avoiding these foods has never really been adequately explained to me. Watch for added sugars in breads, though. 

That modern food is bad for us is not borne out by the evidence. We've never lived longer. Only the obesity epidemic threatens our ever-increasing longevity, and that's an issue of inactivity as much as it is food-related.

@winkyincanada, Fruit contains fructose rather than the kind of processed sugars I now avoid. Fructose is better and if fruit is lower in calories and higher in fibre that is a good thing.

We live longer for many reasons but mostly better housing, drugs and medical services. Read up on the things I have suggested above and you might become enlightened.

Phil

A potato becomes glucose very quickly, even starting in your mouth. Almost all the nutritive content of a potato is in the skin - I just picture a mound of sugar about half the size of the potato when I see one.

But for the once or twice a year that I get a big steak, a loaded baked potato is definitely getting consumed!

Fructose in fruit is OK in small amounts, because the fiber slows its digestion - where thing really started to go off the rails was when Bog Food started using HFCS in damn near everything. 

The liver cannot process fructose at that level, and there is some evidence (still needs more study) that the recent increase in non-alcoholic fatty liver disease may be related to HFCS...not to mention the diabetes epidemic in the USA. How the hell are teens getting "adult onset" diabetes?

Our food supply in the west is destroying us, and then we have the drugs to counter the effects to some degree, but that is not health. That is why I refer to what the media and corporations call "health care" as "sick care". Health care is a choice you make for yourself in your lifestyle, not something you can purchase from someone else.

I this this thread illustrates well how difficult it is to eat healthily. Headline assertions are simplistic because there's complexity to understand underneath, and some advice just seems contradictory e.g. butter etc is bad so switch to substitutes.... oh, no, actually dairy is ok! There's even confusion around the type and volume of exercise that's good for you. Maybe the best thing to do is to eat and do everything in moderation (ok, not including smoking and illicit drugs). 

DrMark posted:

Fructose in fruit is OK in small amounts, because the fiber slows its digestion - where thing really started to go off the rails was when Bog Food started using HFCS in damn near everything. 

The liver cannot process fructose at that level, and there is some evidence (still needs more study) that the recent increase in non-alcoholic fatty liver disease may be related to HFCS...not to mention the diabetes epidemic in the USA. How the hell are teens getting "adult onset" diabetes?

Our food supply in the west is destroying us, and then we have the drugs to counter the effects to some degree, but that is not health. That is why I refer to what the media and corporations call "health care" as "sick care". Health care is a choice you make for yourself in your lifestyle, not something you can purchase from someone else.

@DrMark  Quite agree with you. Over here Dr Michael Moseley did programs on The BBC about High Fructose Corn Syrup which has been replacing ordinary sugar in many products.

I always start my day with a bowl of porridge without salt or sugar. It's very satisfying, but if I have cereal I want more than the recommended helping. Cereals are very addictive for me. A kilogram of Scots Porridge Oats cost £1.50 and lasts me about a month. A 700 gm box of cereal by comparison would not last a week. It cost an order of magnitude more than porridge.

Our NHS recommends 5 portions of fruit and veg a day for a healthy diet. I've always had an apple with my light lunch. Now I eat fruit at other times and used fruit to get off snacks. Now it's the apple, a clementine, and banana, grapes or pear plus 100% pomegranate juice. The fruit is very satisfying. I have averaged 1 lb/week weight loss and feel better for it having reached the upper limit of recommended weight for my height.

I lost weight circa 2000 by walking 4 1/4 miles a day every day at about 4mph including an ascent of several hundred feet. Since then walking has not helped with the weight loss, but that's probably me and being nearer 70. I find gardening better and use digging and weeding for spinal flexibility (just bend with loose knees to pick out the weeds that you dig). Growing your own organic veg is a great bonus. Even shop Jersey new potatoes cannot compare with the babies from our blight affected crop planted rather late in June and hit by a wet August. 

What gardening does is to keep you on your feet increasing activity over the couch potatoe life style. If you work in a office why not try a standing desk. I also make a conscious effort to get up from an arm chair without using my arms to push up. This puts the effort into the legs and core muscles so you have a flatter stomach. As I said in the original post blood pressure is easily reduced by getting more sunlight. Nitric Oxide produced in the skin is a good vasodilator as well as having other similar effects elsewhere. Weight loss will also help systolic blood pressure.

As I am having an op in four weeks I am also on the cross trainer for 30 mins a day at level 5. 

Phil

4mph is a damn tough speed to walk at. You must be like the proverbial butcher's dog.

Hope the operation goes well.

s.

DrMark posted:

Two weeks ago I rebuilt my shed doors - lots of carrying, banding, kneeling, painting, hammering, climbing ladders, etc over the course of the weekend - probably 6+ hours each day. I was physically spent at the end of that effort...no way I could have gone to the gym afterward, and was stiff for a day plus afterward. All I wanted was a shower and to sit down.

A graphic example of how my physical work capacity has diminished with age.  And at least partially the result of having a "sit on my arse" job day in and day out...despite the 1.1 mile walk I do with a colleague each day around the office complex each morning.

That describes most of my days work Dr Mark and I too am too physically tired to exercise, for instance tomorrow I am going to fit a Velux on a clients 2nd floor landing lots of up and down two flights of stairs, stripping a large section of a tiled roof via a very long ladder, sawing, hammering etc and installing a heavy double glazed Velux window.

I am 47 and so do fall into the category being discussed here and do get a bit annoyed at some of the tone displayed by some of the posters on this forum who it seems have no idea what physical jobs some of us actually have and yes I probably am probably less educated than some of them.

MDS posted:

. Maybe the best thing to do is to eat and do everything in moderation (ok, not including smoking and illicit drugs). 

Fags and drugs are best done to excess, I find.

Bob the Builder posted:

DrMark posted:

Two weeks ago I rebuilt my shed doors - lots of carrying, banding, kneeling, painting, hammering, climbing ladders, etc over the course of the weekend - probably 6+ hours each day. I was physically spent at the end of that effort...no way I could have gone to the gym afterward, and was stiff for a day plus afterward. All I wanted was a shower and to sit down.

A graphic example of how my physical work capacity has diminished with age.  And at least partially the result of having a "sit on my arse" job day in and day out...despite the 1.1 mile walk I do with a colleague each day around the office complex each morning.

That describes most of my days work Dr Mark and I too am too physically tired to exercise, for instance tomorrow I am going to fit a Velux on a clients 2nd floor landing lots of up and down two flights of stairs, stripping a large section of a tiled roof via a very long ladder, sawing, hammering etc and installing a heavy double glazed Velux window.

I am 47 and so do fall into the category being discussed here and do get a bit annoyed at some of the tone displayed by some of the posters on this forum who it seems have no idea what physical jobs some of us actually have and yes I probably am probably less educated than some of them.

I still get into the gym about 3X weekly, and referee about 8-12 ice hockey games per month. This despite having PAD, which makes the hockey very painful. I will be giving that up in a year or so, but it does force me to move (or try to) against my will, because following the flow of a game means I cannot dictate the direction or pace of my movements. I do cheat a bit, truth be known - not in position as quickly as I should be sometimes, and I cannot do the fastest young stuff any more. (I am 59.)

I had plans to go to the gym that weekend, but my shed took all the energy I had. Some other dude that used to live in my body would have done it.

DrMark posted:

Bob the Builder posted:

DrMark posted:

Two weeks ago I rebuilt my shed doors - lots of carrying, banding, kneeling, painting, hammering, climbing ladders, etc over the course of the weekend - probably 6+ hours each day. I was physically spent at the end of that effort...no way I could have gone to the gym afterward, and was stiff for a day plus afterward. All I wanted was a shower and to sit down.

A graphic example of how my physical work capacity has diminished with age.  And at least partially the result of having a "sit on my arse" job day in and day out...despite the 1.1 mile walk I do with a colleague each day around the office complex each morning.

That describes most of my days work Dr Mark and I too am too physically tired to exercise, for instance tomorrow I am going to fit a Velux on a clients 2nd floor landing lots of up and down two flights of stairs, stripping a large section of a tiled roof via a very long ladder, sawing, hammering etc and installing a heavy double glazed Velux window.

I am 47 and so do fall into the category being discussed here and do get a bit annoyed at some of the tone displayed by some of the posters on this forum who it seems have no idea what physical jobs some of us actually have and yes I probably am probably less educated than some of them.

I still get into the gym about 3X weekly, and referee about 8-12 ice hockey games per month. This despite having PAD, which makes the hockey very painful. I will be giving that up in a year or so, but it does force me to move (or try to) against my will, because following the flow of a game means I cannot dictate the direction or pace of my movements. I do cheat a bit, truth be known - not in position as quickly as I should be sometimes, and I cannot do the fastest young stuff any more. (I am 59.)

I had plans to go to the gym that weekend, but my shed took all the energy I had. Some other dude that used to live in my body would have done it.

Very interesting point Dr Mark in that I could not maintain levels of exercise you describe even at 12 years your junior but my job does keep me fit and I can walk and walk and walk some more and ride a bike at a leisurely pace for a few miles without becoming tired but my skinny jeans and tight muscle top days are 100% over. 

I'm 13 1/2 stone and almost 6 foot and so according to NHS guidelines I'm over weight so am I dangerously unfit because I don't exercise regularly my blood pressure and pulse are both well with in safe levels as are my cholesterol. 

so do I need to go to the gym more?

Only if you like it and can keep it as a habit. When I was in full time chiropractic practice and I encouraged my patients to exercise, the question was often "Well, what should I do?" To which I answered "Well, what do you like?"  And therein lies the rub; tennis, as an example, is fine exercise...but not if you don't like tennis. Ditto anything else. And some people just don't like exercise activities, so for them it will always be drudgery and a challenge.

When I worked in pharmacy, a woman came in - about 65 years old, and was mildly hypertensive. She asked what could she do - and in querying found out she did nothing physical at all - although she was not particularly overweight, especially by USA standards. I recommended walking for 10-20 minutes several days a week...to which she just kept asking, but what should I do? I reiterated my suggestion, and it was as if I said nothing, because it wasn't what she wanted to hear. On the 4th iteration of this exchange, I resisted my urge to reach out and bitch-slap her, and told her to do nothing, and pretty soon she'd be fully eligible for a pharmaceutical intervention. That answer she heard.

As for me (and I had to google for the conversion rate) I am over 13 stone and only 68" tall. PAD has really inhibited my ability to burn calories. I am fairly muscular (I am sure if you paid me by the pound I could bench press about 265 lbs, give or take). I can walk OK, but not up a grade...my calves will be screaming. In fact, I may be visiting the vascular surgeon again soon to look for a more aggressive intervention so I can be more active, because I was my whole life and this sucks.

Some I interesting observations here.

I think a very good point is that if people simply don't like taking exercise they won't, regardless of advice (and regardless of intelligence, formal education etc), until or unless some shock factor gets through to them.

Personally I detest exercise for the sake of it - is so tedious and boring, and so there is no way will go for a run, or even cycle or walk just to do it. And the very word gym is anathema to me, and have not set foot in one since leaving school.

I am shortly due for a knee op to replace ligaments ruptured in a skiing accident, and am not looking forward to the essential repatriation exercise I will have to do to ensure full recovery: even doing the exercises I was given to build up other muscles to stabilise the knee after the accident last year I struggled to do because they took 10s of minutes and were tedious and boring, and it is going to take a superhuman effort to persevere, even driven by my desire to get back to full mobility

In contrast, for me cycling is a good means of transport so I use it, that being my regular exercise, and I have no objection to walking if there is time, so if, say, I need go into town from work at lunchtime, maybe 10-15 mins walk away, I wouldn't dream of going by car - and I always walk relatively briskly, even if maybe slower now than a decade or two ago unless in a hurry, but still more than 3 mph. I also enjoy walking in the countryside/ hillwalking which I will happily do for several hours at a time, not and thinking of it as exercise - but opportunities are not sufficiently frequency to regard it as regular.