Bright to ear bleeding.....

I'd say it's the speakers but you're best to get your dealer around for a listen.

my system is the same as yours apart from the speakers and the fact I have a dr 552 and 555ps. I'm using s-400s.

Have you tried the -2dB HF setting on the speakers?

Regarding speakers, I haven't hear the F8' only the F12 - that wasn't overbright or edgy (though powered by a Bryston 4B amp), and I think the rweeters are the same: but of course the F12 has a better bass end so maybe relatively the F8 would seem bright. But that doesn't explain the difference observed. The primary question would seem to be why the 552 should either boost or let through relatively  so much more HF energy than the 252 (more HF or less mid/bass). If others haven't experienced that then certainly I'd get a dealer to check for faults first.

Thanks Huge, yes I have used the HF settings on the PMC's made some difference but still sounding bright.

Gary

It shouldn't be unbearably bright compared to a NAC252 - far from it. Indeed, Naim systems in general are not tipped up at the top end. The NAC552 can sound a bit hard and relentless up top though if the Burndy is not absolutely right - i.e. not too tight around the strain relief collars and if you run it with the suspended boards locked up.  Just want to check - you have removed all the locking screws from underneath the head unit?  

Try removing and relaxing the Burndy and go from there.

One other thing to check - there's no give in the metal feet - even the tiniest bit of rocking will ruin the sound.  Generally, no surface is absolutely flat - not even glass - so Naim can supply wafer thin aluminium shims to ensure there's no rocking at all (you can test by tapping each corner).

Oh, and check the hi-Line that it's not jammed right up against the socket...

Thanks Richard, transit screws all removed and it feels flat, I'll have a play with the burndy to see if that has any impact - bloody frustrating.....

Gary

When I had a 552/300 it was much more lively and dynamic than the 252 that preceded it, but it certainly wasn't bright. I used it with a CDS3/555PS and SL2s, on Fraim, so very similar. Have you got the speakers firing more or less straight ahead? If they are pointing strainght at you they will seem brighter and beamy. As Richard says the burndy needs to be unstressed and not touching walls or other cables, but you probably wouldn't expect that to make things as bad as they seem to be. Can you get your dealer round to listen? The 552 is a lot of money and should be delighting you, rather than the complete opposite. I did find the 552 system sensitive to every nuance of setup, such as the glass being up the right way, the spikes centred in the cups, the legs being tight, burndy dressing, hiline dangling free, etc, etc, so it may be worth a strip down and rebuild. If you live near me I'd come and help, but I don't think you do. 

The 552 has a wonderfully "see through" presentation which while not taming harsh treble, doesn't cause it to strip paint off the walls. For most recordings the top end of the 552 is transparent, life like, believable. It's not about the quality of the treble so much as the (usually unfatiguing) loudness texture and timbre of the  instrument(s)/voice(s)/effect(s) you are listening to.

Sounds like you've got a fault. If the 552 is at fault it's most likely a faulty amp rather than a faulty choice of amp. Did you audition before buying? Nothing is ever a dead cert, no matter how many other people (with other systems, other tastes and other ears) love it. Regardless, this is a job for a dealer. If it's as bad as that, there will be a solution.

Gary, Both sources or just one?

C.

Funny, I've had the opposite problem with my 552 after it came back from a service. It just sounded lifeless. Initially I wasn't too worried as I've experienced burn-in before but it just went on forever, so I thought I'd take a look at the burndy. Removal and a quick massage seem to do the trick producing a much more balanced sound when reinstalled. Then over the course of the next week it just got better and better to the point where describing the sound in hifi terms became pretty meaningless.

I'd definitely focus on cable dressing, and don't give on on the 552 as the musical rewards are massive.

Both sources which leaves me to believe it's the 552.

I didn't demo but have heard one on numerous occasion so was confident it would be a good move. 

Occassionally all lights on the 552 come on and go off so I do wonder if I have a fault - as it was freshly serviced I made the assumption it was just burn in affecting the performance. 

HH, Speakers are head on but I have been experimenting with toe in / distance from back wall but still not getting the sound I was expecting. 

Thanks

Gary

All the lights coming on and then off indicates something's not right.  Have you tried with just one source connected? 

No I haven't Richard, what would that highlight - an input issue?

Gary

A possible earthing issue that may have arisen somewhere for some reason.

Hi Gary,

In addition to Richard's excellent advice, I would urge you to work on your speaker placement.    In some cases, adding a new electrical component will shift the systems performance to such a degree that previously satisfactory speaker locations are no longer workable.    The NAC 552 is far more resolving than even the excellent NAC 252, so this change may have upset your system's balance even if it is working perfectly.    I have found that speakers need to be moved more often with the introduction of a new power amp, but in truth, many listeners have not done enough experimenting to achieve the best performance from their speakers.

It pays to be very precise and patient with speaker placement.    In many cases, moving a speaker closer to the rear wall in a room will increase the perceived bass output, which may warm your system up, but in some cases, the speakers need to come forward further into the room to achieve a better tonal balance.     As you do this, take your time and take notes.    This is not the same as listening for pleasure, it is best done with a scientific mindset.    Use well recorded acoustic music and no more than a few recordings for your experiments.     I often use well recorded acoustic jazz recordings for this sort of tuning, such as the famous Bill Evans records from the Village Vanguard in 1961 or his late career masterpiece "You Must Believe in Spring" which is a superb studio recording.    Well recorded classical piano recitals are also very useful if your tastes in music runs in that direction.

Even small movements of your speakers will be clearly audible.    You want them both exactly the same distance from the rear wall in each experimental location, but it is hard to predict where they are likely to sound best- to you.    If possible, try not to have the speakers the same distance from the rear wall and the side wall, but this can be challenging if you need to use a small room for your system.     There are good predictive formula available on the internet, but these are only really starting points for most people.     You have to find the balance that works best for you on a listening basis.    Start with large changes and then once you have found the general direction that is more appealing, work on smaller and smaller adjustments.     The speakers will need to be rock solid on their spikes for this process to work optimally, but you can forgo toe in until you find the best locations for your speakers in the room acoustically.    

The beauty of getting your speakers well placed in the room so the system gels will always pay dividends no matter what components you settle on over time.     It can be very time consuming, and sometimes very frustrating, but it is worth it when your system really couples well with your room, rather than fighting the room's acoustics.

Good luck,

Bruce

Wise words Bruce, thank you. I have been playing with speaker movement but want to be sure    I have no issues with my pre.

PMC website suggests an equaleteral triangle but with placement of other furniture I can only get them c2m apart in my 6m square room. 

More experiemnting required. 

Gary

So the OP was very content with his 252 buys a 552 doesn't like it and we start suggesting an issue with speakers or their placement.   Or some wires aren't hanging in the right way. 

Sorry to say either the OP just doesn't like the 552 or there's something wrong with it.  The latter I would suggest. 

Regards,

Lindsay

Try some other interconnect cable than hi-line. It made my system, though much more modest than yours, sound unbearably sibilant and harsh. I could only listen to around 15 minutes at time without headache. TQ Black has worked fine for me. 

fathings cat posted:

Wise words Bruce, thank you. I have been playing with speaker movement but want to be sure    I have no issues with my pre.

PMC website suggests an equaleteral triangle but with placement of other furniture I can only get them c2m apart in my 6m square room. 

More experiemnting required. 

Gary

An equilateral triangle is only the widest separation you should have between your speakers, less than this is also fine.  It's just that the stereo image will be narrower (OK, what a surprise that is!).

Hi Gary,

       Square rooms are very difficult to work with acoustically, unfortunately.     If you are not familiar with the "rule of the thirds" what it suggests is that you measure your room across the two diagonals; front right to rear left and front left to rear right and note these numbers very carefully.     Predictively, what the rule of the thirds suggests is that you would achieve the best performance for your speakers when they were one third of the way into the room, along the two diagonals and your listening position would be the 2/3rd intersection, but exactly in between them to allow for the formation of a true stereo image.     This formula, and other similar ones are available for free with some additional comments on the Cardas Audio website.     This set up approach often puts speakers too far into a room for many people's comfort, but if you can move things around to at least try it, you may learn some very useful things.    Some people prefer to use a modified version of this using 1/5 the room diagonal rather than 1/3.    

      For what it is worth, it sounds like you may have your speakers a bit too close together for such a large room, but only you can judge what is practical in your life, and what is possible for you, and your family if you are married.

      Good luck,

      Bruce

Hi Gary,

No chance of the speakers being connected out of phase I take it? Unlikely I know, but I mention it because it has caught out a lot of audiophiles.

My 5½ year old (from new) 552 threw a wobbly; producing the sonic character you describe - thin and shouty. Naim replaced 122 components across the two boxes to fix it.

By substitution, your dealer (as mine did) will be able to isolate the problem. A dodgy Burndy cable can throw things well out of whack. Ken C - where are ya?

Good luck.

John.

The best way to check your amp is to have your dealer instAll it at his place and take a listen. If it sound ok, then it most likely is ok, which leaves the rest of your installation being responsible for the problem.

I'm going to be blunt here. Positioning your speakers according to how your furniture is arranged is akin to cooking food on an oven and hob that only has a single fixed temperature setting. It hopelessly limits your system's ability to sound good, never mind optimum. 

A hi-if system's speakers interact with the room and if you can't place them in their optimum position you are quite frankly wasting your time and money.  Your speakers have multiple drive units, each of which has an individual polar response. Changing the toe in of the speakers will change the perceived frequency response.  Similarly, changing the speakers front to back position may place it in a node or anti node, making huge differences to bass response, making a speaker sound either boomy or threadbare....both highly unpleasant. If you are serious about making your system sound good, move all your furniture out of the way bar for your listening chair and set about finding the speaker's optimum position. Start with them about 10 feet apart and 3 feet out from the back wall, mark that position with masking tape then take a listen. Now move the speakers  1.5' back towards the wall and listen. Better or worse? If worse, move them back to the tape and listen.  Now move them 1.5' forward of the tape. Better or  worse?  If better, move the tape. If worse move the speaker back to the tape. Now move the speaker 9" backward and 9" forward and repeat the listening. Place the tape at the best position, then move the speakers 4.5" backward and forward. Eventually you'll have found the absolute best position front to back for the best room frequency balance. 

Now repeat for width, moving the speakers 1' further apart and 1' closer together and mark the best position. Then move them 6" and so on. Here you're looking for the widest and most solid and realistic soundstage, with no hole in the middle and a very clear centre image.

Finally toe-in.  Some procedure...starting with bigger moves then halving each move until you identify the optimum.  Here you're looking for both optimum image and frequency balance. 

Using this methodical approach, you're only ever comparing 2 values.....before and after a move and you're always making sure you haven't overstepped the mark, because you move in both directions. 

Once you have your system singing, figure out how you're going to rearrange your furniture to give the best listening and tv viewing positions.

If you can't do this, there's not a lot of point in changing and upgrading your system, because how it sounds is a complete lottery, based on the chances of hitting the speakers sweet spot out of hundreds of alternatives.

But everything was fine with this guys speakers until the 552 arrived?

The Strat (Fender) posted:

But everything was fine with this guys speakers until the 552 arrived?

Exactly what I was going to say.