Uniti Nova vs Star

This has already came up today on a different thread, I think it was Davemac contacted Naim on what's the difference. Essentially Atom, Star and Nova are entirely different, individual amps, Dacs, circuit design etc etc. This is a change to previous practice of one design with upgraded parts. Naim then said go listen and see if you think it's worth paying the extra for Nova over Star or Atom?

Thanks, Gazza. I will look for the thread. I could hardly imagine that I am the first to ask this! 

It was the same with the Uniti and SuperUniti - the latter had more power, fewer features and better sound. The only way to decide which is for you is to go and listen, once the Star is available. People could tell you that the Nova is better because its circuit board is attached with inverse flange bolts, but it wouldn't help. Naim dealers are paid to demonstrate this equipment to potential customers. 

The difference in power is just one specification among many, but it's one that's more easily comprehended, at least superficially.  Unfortunately most people tend to equate power output with sound quality and the two are almost unrelated.

The differences in the electronic circuitry are extensive and there to give better sound quality from the Nova.  There's little point in Naim giving more details, as, unless you're familiar with the design of modern DACs and analogue audio amps, most of the information would be pretty much meaningless.  I've designed audio amps in the past, but despite this, I'm now so out of date that much of it would now be meaningless to me.

Huge posted:

The difference in power is just one specification among many, but it's one that's more easily comprehended, at least superficially.  Unfortunately most people tend to equate power output with sound quality and the two are almost unrelated.

The differences in the electronic circuitry are extensive and there to give better sound quality from the Nova.  There's little point in Naim giving more details, as, unless you're familiar with the design of modern DACs and analogue audio amps, most of the information would be pretty much meaningless.  I've designed audio amps in the past, but despite this, I'm now so out of date that much of it would now be meaningless to me.

Absolutely agree Huge.

All depends how they sound in terms of if they're VFM for anyone individually.  Even if not VFM you may just want one because it sounds better.

I think where all the extra details probably help us mere mortals is rationalising a higher value purchase with specs/features we can identify as factors contributing to SQ more than a subjective listening test.

this  discussion is for new customers, the majority on this forum will have several boxes. in the future my guess is the introduction of a new streamer//DAC line output PREAMP  to run their large power amps/psu.s

Hungryhalibut posted:

It was the same with the Uniti and SuperUniti - the latter had more power, fewer features and better sound. The only way to decide which is for you is to go and listen, once the Star is available. People could tell you that the Nova is better because its circuit board is attached with inverse flange bolts, but it wouldn't help. Naim dealers are paid to demonstrate this equipment to potential customers. 

While I am completely agree with the sentiment here, I am left wondering a little whether Naim will offer an upgrade service to retrofit inverse flange bolts to classic products. NAC N-272 IFB maybe?

best

David

I wonder if the lateral offset laser in the Star, which is said to make a significant difference, will trickle up to classic components. 

HH is that a Naim laser design or a bought in Teac mechanism. I think core uses a Teac mechanism?

I agree with HH. Whoever makes it, I think I need one in my 250DR, even if it makes it a 250DR LOL which some forum members might not take seriously enough.

best

David

Silly boy. Everyone knows there are no lasers in a 250DR. 

Gazza posted:

HH is that a Naim laser design or a bought in Teac mechanism. I think core uses a Teac mechanism?

I'm not entirely sure, though I think I recall hearing that it was made by Western Telefonics Factors. 

Hungryhalibut posted:

Silly boy. Everyone knows there are no lasers in a 250DR. 

I was thinking of an enhancement, that could cut incisively through the inky blackness, sharply etching the instruments into our consciousness with laser-like clarity.

best

David

HH thanks, interesting

David Hendon posted:

Hungryhalibut posted:

Silly boy. Everyone knows there are no lasers in a 250DR. 

I was thinking of an enhancement, that could cut incisively through the inky blackness, sharply etching the instruments into our consciousness with laser-like clarity.

best

David

Perhaps they could do that by using them to replace the old technology silicon diodes in the output transistor bias current circuit.

Or even better use them as rectifier diodes to cleanly slice the mains supply into a perfect 1/2 inverted sine wave, so removing any dependence of the 250DR on having a good mains supply?  This could be even more effective than having a dedicated radial mains circuit and a Powerline!  Maybe Naim could roll this out as an upgrade on all products with a mains transformer. 

Wow, cutting edge thinking. 

Alley Cat posted:

Huge posted:

The difference in power is just one specification among many, but it's one that's more easily comprehended, at least superficially.  Unfortunately most people tend to equate power output with sound quality and the two are almost unrelated.

The differences in the electronic circuitry are extensive and there to give better sound quality from the Nova.  There's little point in Naim giving more details, as, unless you're familiar with the design of modern DACs and analogue audio amps, most of the information would be pretty much meaningless.  I've designed audio amps in the past, but despite this, I'm now so out of date that much of it would now be meaningless to me.

Absolutely agree Huge.

All depends how they sound in terms of if they're VFM for anyone individually.  Even if not VFM you may just want one because it sounds better.

I think where all the extra details probably help us mere mortals is rationalising a higher value purchase with specs/features we can identify as factors contributing to SQ more than a subjective listening test.

The problem there is that the information would be meaningless. Take for instance capacitors, using types from my era which of these would you consider preferable

Makes extensive use of Philips Mullard C280 series capacitors in the audio circuits for consistent audio quality
Makes extensive use of polycarbonate capacitors in the audio chain for clear precise sound.
Uses Sidereal capacitors at selected points to reduce sound degradation at specific points in the amplifier.

In terms of specifications, which of these will be the system that sounds best:

Frequency response: 5Hz to 80kHz
Frequency response: 5Hz to 180kHz
Frequency response: 8Hz to 60kHz  +/- 3dB
Frequency response: 10Hz to 35kHz  +/- 1dB
Frequency response: 20Hz to 20kHz  +/- 0.1dB

or
Distortion: <0.001%
Distortion: <0.1% at -60dB

or,
Is a 32bit ESS Sabre 9018 DAC in a badly implemented analogue circuit better than a 24bit TI PCM1792A in a well implemented analogue circuit or vice versa?
How do you know how good the analogue circuit implementation is?

Most specifications are a just red herrings (or perhaps read herrings?)

On the other hand...
Yes I'd agree that information on product features is useful and should be included in marketing literature.

Huge posted:

David Hendon posted:

Hungryhalibut posted:

Silly boy. Everyone knows there are no lasers in a 250DR. 

I was thinking of an enhancement, that could cut incisively through the inky blackness, sharply etching the instruments into our consciousness with laser-like clarity.

best

David

Perhaps they could do that by using them to replace the old technology silicon diodes in the output transistor bias current circuit.

Or even better use them as rectifier diodes to cleanly slice the mains supply into a perfect 1/2 inverted sine wave, so removing any dependence of the 250DR on having a good mains supply?  This could be even more effective than having a dedicated radial mains circuit and a Powerline!  Maybe Naim could roll this out as an upgrade on all products with a mains transformer. 

It's always good when someone who understands the relevant technologies can shine a bright light onto a hitherto dark area of Naim's acoustical alchemy.

So maybe the first trickle up product from Atom/Star/Nova will be Laser?

Anyway I'm going to stop doing this now and think about work instead!

best

David

JGregg posted:

Thanks, Gazza. I will look for the thread. I could hardly imagine that I am the first to ask this! 

We must have been thinking the same at pretty much the same time. I've asked the mods to merge my thread with yours if that's ok since we are pretty much asking the same questions.

That is a great idea and absolutely fine with me. Thanks for reaching out!