Bass traps or new speakers?

I am a little confused since you did not put the traps in the corners of the room but behind the speakers wich is the normal position for base traps. If you have a room with problems I doubt changing speakers would solve the problems, but others on the forum knows a lot more about this than I do.

Claus  

FWIW ....I had a similar problem and bought a pair of Townshend Seismic Isolation Podiums, which solved it........ 

Systems, speakers are all very much room dependant... so room treatment is probably the best option.... 

If you go online, their are a few companies out there that will offer some good advice, once you have provided them with your room details....for recommendations its a no charge service ...you only pay if you wish to proceed... 

Bass is a fairly difficult problem to deal with. Firstly it depends on what is causing the problem. 

Is it corner reinforcement, coming from your chimney breast, activation of a room node due to speaker placement, a standing wave due to reflections in your room, or some sort of resonance within your system?

Bass traps work on the basis of presssure differential (inside vs. outside) and conversion of energy to heat as the pressure wave seeks to penetrate the dense bass trap wadding to equalize pressure. This means that bass traps are quite large and usually not consistent with your partner's idea of interior decorating.  Also they will usually absorb across a fairly wide frequency spectrum so are not that great for treating bass resonances in that they remove bass rather than spikes or peaks within the bass. 

If this were my problem, I would start by experimentally moving my listening position to see if I'm sitting at a bass node, then if that doesn't help I'd try moving the speakers both closer and further away from the back wall, and in addition try them away from the fireplace.  

If you eventually find a place that works, you've qualified your problem and know the solution. Then its up to you to chose between better sound quality and your room arrangements. If it does end up as being a speaker positioning issue, which is quite likely, I wouldn't waste money on bass traps as your problem isn't too much bass across the spectrum, but rather too much bass of a certain frequency 

Get a miniDSP UMIK-1 and a copy of REW, and post the Frequency Response, Waterfall Plot and raw Impulse Response here and I'll see what I can work out about your room and speakers.

Try putting the bass traps in the corners of the room that are opposite the speakers.

Not sure how much you have experimented with speaker placement. My room is a similar size to yours and I found moving them further apart definitely helped with bass control.

The other thing  I would definitely recommend is trying a 250dr as a recent home demo of a 272/250dr resolved virtually all bass issues on awkward tracks (similarly 10-15%)

I have considered room treatments but it strikes me that it really has to be done properly to be effective which is doable in a dedicated listening room but difficult in a family lounge. 

Huge, if you have a moment I'd appreciate any thoughts you might have about the plots I posted in padded cell.

Apologies to the OP if this isn't a direct contribution to the query. In that vein, I'd suggest that if the Neat SX1s were good but too bassy, then the SX2s might be worth a look, alongside the other advice received.

If you have a speaker that you really like, and no urge to change them, then it seems logical to address the issues with the room for sure.  Unfortunately I'm no great expert on bass traps and all of that (or much else), but good luck.  If you do end up continuing to test speakers, I certainly wouldn't rule out the Kudos X3s on account of expecting them to have bass boom similar to the Neat SX1.  Despite being interested in them, I never got round to trying the Neats when auditioning a few of months ago, so I can only talk about the X3s with experience.  The bass performance of them is very mature, sure there's impressive depth for a small floorstander, but the bass notes certainly know their place.  They put on a very balanced performance, with no show-off qualities beyond being fantastically musical and enjoyable.  I find that the bass is much less dominating in general than my Proac D18s were, or even the Mission 752Fs (they did boom a bit sometimes, rear firing bass port), but if a track is bass heavy by nature, they won't mind letting you know either; they just don't over do it unless its over done at source.  Basically, worth a listen I would suggest.  

Take a look at the AMROC on line room mode calculator. Make sure you choose the correct measurement units.

Once you've put the room dimensions in, move your mouse to each of the red peaks and it will show you (on the 3D diagram below) where that frequency will peak within your room. Look for those that peak in the area where you sit. This will help understand which frequencies are causing your problems (only concern yourself with those below 100Hz).  For those that peak at your listening point, look where else they occur in the room to understand where room treatment needs to be placed. You'll then be able to decide if room treatment will be domestically acceptable. Or not.

Also note that very low frequency bass issues are hard to deal with using room treatment as the wavelength is longer than anything that would fit in the room...  Some digital electronics can get rid of the peaks by attenuating them before they get to your speakers and can therefore be more acceptable than room treatment. Take care though, some of these solutions screw up the music too

I would advise you to address the room acoustic first and then see if you still have an issue. As you can see in an earlier post of mine, roomacoustic doesn't neef to Megan big aan intrusie panels. IT can be doen also a different way.

Whatever you say Bert. How is Megan, btw? 

sunbeamgls posted:

Take a look at the AMROC on line room mode calculator. Make sure you choose the correct measurement units.

Once you've put the room dimensions in, move your mouse to each of the red peaks and it will show you (on the 3D diagram below) where that frequency will peak within your room. Look for those that peak in the area where you sit. This will help understand which frequencies are causing your problems (only concern yourself with those below 100Hz).  For those that peak at your listening point, look where else they occur in the room to understand where room treatment needs to be placed. You'll then be able to decide if room treatment will be domestically acceptable. Or not.

Also note that very low frequency bass issues are hard to deal with using room treatment as the wavelength is longer than anything that would fit in the room...  Some digital electronics can get rid of the peaks by attenuating them before they get to your speakers and can therefore be more acceptable than room treatment. Take care though, some of these solutions screw up the music too

The answer for long wavelength attenuation is to use pressure mode sound absorbers rather than flow mode sound absorbers.

Also you don't need to use the AMROC tool as REW's room simulation tool does much the same thing (although the AMROC tool does indicate the area of the bass traps required!).

Huge posted:

Also you don't need to use the AMROC tool as REW's room simulation tool does much the same thing (although the AMROC tool does indicate the area of the bass traps required!).

AMROC's there and ready to run - nothing to download etc. and gives you the nice graphic.  What's to lose?

sunbeamgls posted:

Huge posted:

Also you don't need to use the AMROC tool as REW's room simulation tool does much the same thing (although the AMROC tool does indicate the area of the bass traps required!).

AMROC's there and ready to run - nothing to download etc. and gives you the nice graphic.  What's to lose?

The frequency response, waterfall and impulse response plots that allow you to see what's actually happening in the room.

Also it inly shows the strength and frequency of the room resonances, it doesn't display their effect and thus can't show how this varies with the location of speakers and listening position.

Huge posted:

sunbeamgls posted:

Huge posted:

Also you don't need to use the AMROC tool as REW's room simulation tool does much the same thing (although the AMROC tool does indicate the area of the bass traps required!).

AMROC's there and ready to run - nothing to download etc. and gives you the nice graphic.  What's to lose?

The frequency response, waterfall and impulse response plots that allow you to see what's actually happening in the room.

Also it inly shows the strength and frequency of the room resonances, it doesn't display their effect and thus can't show how this varies with the location of speakers and listening position.

Good to use both then

Try Four Fat Gliders under each speaker.   From Herbie's Audio Lab.   My speakers are on either side of a fire place on a suspended hardwood floor.  Herbie's did the trick.  

Until you measure the room response, all other 'cures' are just speculation.

Room treatment is not an easy thing to get it right. I found the result is kinda hit and miss, no matter how the computer calculation tells you.

In my room, I have Naim 500 DR system with Wilson Sasha speakers. I had put Bass trap into the  corner behind the speakers with very poor result.  The flow of the music disappeared with the bass trap.  Finally I have my speakers position and carefully adjust with the help of my dealer, the result is now excellent without bass trap. 

On the other hand, I have had great improvements with diffusion and absorber.

there are so many variables in the room, therefore result are inconsistent. From what I learnt, please don't over treat the room. 

i would try to work on speaker position first before put more money to it.

That sounds as though you didn't take account of the impulse response of the system and the room.

Getting room treatment right after measuring the room isn't nearly as difficult as many people like to make out; see this:
https://forums.naimaudio.com/to...13#71962434629950813

Coming to this a bit late, I second the measurement approach, and can confirm that REW is a good tool. If the speaker position is truly not negotiable, you could investigate different listening positions (or is tha also absolute?) otherwise room treatment is very likely what is needed, with bass traps strategically placed. Whilst it is possible to over-treat a room, at the bass end that is rarely likely due to the space bass traps would occupy.

I've just realised another possible reason bass traps may not have worked for some people, and that is the type of 'bass trap' they are using

Many manufacturers are making 'bass traps' from visco-elastically damped foam.  Only a few manufacturers provide any useful data on the absorption / frequency characteristics of their devices and of the manufacturers who do provide data, then, for the foam types, there's usually very little absorption below 60Hz.  This lack of true lower bass absorption make these items nearly useless for rooms over 2.8m in their largest dimension.

The situation is even worse if the manufacturer uses an open cell acoustic foam.  The problem here is that these types don't properly function as bass traps when placed against room boundaries, they only work properly when placed out into the room.  The reason for this is that they are flow mode sound absorbers rather than being pressure mode sound absorbers (which must either be Helmholtz absorbers or have a sealed construction with an outer membrane).