272 or 252?

This is a question that cannot sensibly be answered, as you are putting different preamps, power amps and speakers into the mix. And with the Core/dac and 272 you introduce two options for getting your music to the system. The best thing to do is arrange a session at your dealer to have a good listen. 

+ take the rack also in consideration. Assuming Fraim, there is quite a difference because of the different number of boxes.

There are too many variables at the moment. Also your profile doesn't tell us your current system. Does your dealer stock all the components you want to audition?

If it was me, I would maybe pick one system to start and use it to identify which speakers you prefer. Also advice from your dealer will help as to which might suit your room and musical tastes. Maybe then swop boxes in and out until you are happy. Then home demo with your shortlist. 

Have fun. 

I would be instinctively drawn to your option 6. Perhaps swapping out the little D20R for the Sopra 1.

Thanks for all guys input, but it is difficult to have a demo with appropriate combination in HK, Focal is one shop, proac is another shop, and also cannot rent it to home for a demo >.<

First thing is to determine the speakers that you like more - Proac or Focal. Then work from there.

You ask: 252 or 272? Why not start there with the support of a friendly dealer? It's pretty straightforward -- easy peasy. 

ryder. posted:

First thing is to determine the speakers that you like more - Proac or Focal. Then work from there.

Actually, I like Focal more ^.^

ryder. posted:

First thing is to determine the speakers that you like more - Proac or Focal. Then work from there.

I'd do the opposite. Sort the electronics then choose the speakers within the remaining budget. 

Here we go - yet another 'source first' vs speakers argument!! I'm afraid I'm guilty of not adhering to electronics first. Traditional wisdom said I should have kicked my ProAc K6s into touch when they didn't work well with the 300DR which everyone on here said was a better amp than the 250DR. I chose to go with the 250 as it sounded sublime when paired with the K6s, the sound of which, to my ears, was better than any other speaker within my budget. 

I'm with Ryder on this one. At the very least determine which of the very different musical 'character' offered by the two different brands you prefer, then take it from there.

I think you already got the feedback. An impossible comparison to make. As you are putting options which are principly not comparable - 272 which offers streaming and a 252 which needs a separate streamer. But let me try to give some general hints.

1. The 272 is a fantastic device paired with a 250DR or a 300DR you would have a great combination to blow a lot of people away (with only two black boxes). Pairing it with a XPS will give it even more refinement. A 555PS is of course great but might be a bit out of line with the 272 (more sensible combinations could be created with a NDX...).

2. The pre-amp of the 272 is great, but I would argue that the 282 and up are better pre-amplifiers (282 a bit, 252 much more refined). But of course would also require a separate streamer to offer the same functionality.

3. The streamer  part of the 272 can be bettered by a NDX. So depending on the use case that could give a better result.

4. The 300DR is quite in a different league then the 250DR but obviously again two boxes.

So in general I would see the following routes which make sense:

1. Straight forward route: 272 with 250DR. Box count plays a role for your use case and you still want a great hifi system which can drive most speakers.

2. Step up 272 with 300DR, and for added refinement one could upgrade in the future with an XPS

3. Boxcount doesn't count - sound quality does. NDX potentialy powers by XPS, 252, 300DR

Bert Schurink posted:

I think you already got the feedback. An impossible comparison to make. As you are putting options which are principly not comparable - 272 which offers streaming and a 252 which needs a separate streamer. But let me try to give some general hints.

1. The 272 is a fantastic device paired with a 250DR or a 300DR you would have a great combination to blow a lot of people away (with only two black boxes). Pairing it with a XPS will give it even more refinement. A 555PS is of course great but might be a bit out of line with the 272 (more sensible combinations could be created with a NDX...).

2. The pre-amp of the 272 is great, but I would argue that the 282 and up are better pre-amplifiers (282 a bit, 252 much more refined). But of course would also require a separate streamer to offer the same functionality.

3. The streamer  part of the 272 can be bettered by a NDX. So depending on the use case that could give a better result.

4. The 300DR is quite in a different league then the 250DR but obviously again two boxes.

 

So in general I would see the following routes which make sense:

1. Straight forward route: 272 with 250DR. Box count plays a role for your use case and you still want a great hifi system which can drive most speakers.

2. Step up 272 with 300DR, and for added refinement one could upgrade in the future with an XPS

3. Boxcount doesn't count - sound quality does. NDX potentialy powers by XPS, 252, 300DR

Why go for all the redundancy when ndx is pared with 272. . If ndx then 282 or 252 makes more sense, if price is not important.

Timmo1341 posted:

Here we go - yet another 'source first' vs speakers argument!! I'm afraid I'm guilty of not adhering to electronics first. Traditional wisdom said I should have kicked my ProAc K6s into touch when they didn't work well with the 300DR which everyone on here said was a better amp than the 250DR. I chose to go with the 250 as it sounded sublime when paired with the K6s, the sound of which, to my ears, was better than any other speaker within my budget. 

I'm with Ryder on this one. At the very least determine which of the very different musical 'character' offered by the two different brands you prefer, then take it from there.

Did you start with the 272 or the K6?

Claus-Thoegersen posted:

Bert Schurink posted:

I think you already got the feedback. An impossible comparison to make. As you are putting options which are principly not comparable - 272 which offers streaming and a 252 which needs a separate streamer. But let me try to give some general hints.

1. The 272 is a fantastic device paired with a 250DR or a 300DR you would have a great combination to blow a lot of people away (with only two black boxes). Pairing it with a XPS will give it even more refinement. A 555PS is of course great but might be a bit out of line with the 272 (more sensible combinations could be created with a NDX...).

2. The pre-amp of the 272 is great, but I would argue that the 282 and up are better pre-amplifiers (282 a bit, 252 much more refined). But of course would also require a separate streamer to offer the same functionality.

3. The streamer  part of the 272 can be bettered by a NDX. So depending on the use case that could give a better result.

4. The 300DR is quite in a different league then the 250DR but obviously again two boxes.

 

So in general I would see the following routes which make sense:

1. Straight forward route: 272 with 250DR. Box count plays a role for your use case and you still want a great hifi system which can drive most speakers.

2. Step up 272 with 300DR, and for added refinement one could upgrade in the future with an XPS

3. Boxcount doesn't count - sound quality does. NDX potentialy powers by XPS, 252, 300DR

Why go for all the redundancy when ndx is pared with 272. . If ndx then 282 or 252 makes more sense, if price is not important.

I know where you are coming from...., however the NDX is more refined and more capable than the 272. So it would be a step up for anybody in the market for it. Obviously always the NDS is the next option, but not always attainable by everybody.

8. N272 + 300DR + 555PS DR + Focal Sopra 2

282

Timo posted:

Timmo1341 posted:

Here we go - yet another 'source first' vs speakers argument!! I'm afraid I'm guilty of not adhering to electronics first. Traditional wisdom said I should have kicked my ProAc K6s into touch when they didn't work well with the 300DR which everyone on here said was a better amp than the 250DR. I chose to go with the 250 as it sounded sublime when paired with the K6s, the sound of which, to my ears, was better than any other speaker within my budget. 

I'm with Ryder on this one. At the very least determine which of the very different musical 'character' offered by the two different brands you prefer, then take it from there.

Did you start with the 272 or the K6?

272 with PS was my starting point (limited on box count I can accommodate). Speakers were always going to be larger ProAc (K6 or D48), as I love the ProAc sound. The variable was always going to be the amp. I can accommodate (just) 4 boxes, and my budget was able to stretch to the 300DR. That was my theoretical 'dream' system, but the sound just didn't cut it. Even when I replaced the K6s with existing D20r, the bass produced by the 300 was not good. Replacing it by the 250DR was nothing short of miraculous!

So I sort of went the 'source first', but only if you exclude amplification.

Timmo1341 posted:

Timo posted:

Timmo1341 posted:

Here we go - yet another 'source first' vs speakers argument!! I'm afraid I'm guilty of not adhering to electronics first. Traditional wisdom said I should have kicked my ProAc K6s into touch when they didn't work well with the 300DR which everyone on here said was a better amp than the 250DR. I chose to go with the 250 as it sounded sublime when paired with the K6s, the sound of which, to my ears, was better than any other speaker within my budget. 

I'm with Ryder on this one. At the very least determine which of the very different musical 'character' offered by the two different brands you prefer, then take it from there.

Did you start with the 272 or the K6?

272 with PS was my starting point (limited on box count I can accommodate). Speakers were always going to be larger ProAc (K6 or D48), as I love the ProAc sound. The variable was always going to be the amp. I can accommodate (just) 4 boxes, and my budget was able to stretch to the 300DR. That was my theoretical 'dream' system, but the sound just didn't cut it. Even when I replaced the K6s with existing D20r, the bass produced by the 300 was not good. Replacing it by the 250DR was nothing short of miraculous!

So I sort of went the 'source first', but only if you exclude amplification.

Quod erat demonstrandum  -- power amp isn't really part of the source, is it? 

Claus-Thoegersen posted:

Bert Schurink posted:

I think you already got the feedback. An impossible comparison to make. As you are putting options which are principly not comparable - 272 which offers streaming and a 252 which needs a separate streamer. But let me try to give some general hints.

1. The 272 is a fantastic device paired with a 250DR or a 300DR you would have a great combination to blow a lot of people away (with only two black boxes). Pairing it with a XPS will give it even more refinement. A 555PS is of course great but might be a bit out of line with the 272 (more sensible combinations could be created with a NDX...).

2. The pre-amp of the 272 is great, but I would argue that the 282 and up are better pre-amplifiers (282 a bit, 252 much more refined). But of course would also require a separate streamer to offer the same functionality.

3. The streamer  part of the 272 can be bettered by a NDX. So depending on the use case that could give a better result.

4. The 300DR is quite in a different league then the 250DR but obviously again two boxes.

 

So in general I would see the following routes which make sense:

1. Straight forward route: 272 with 250DR. Box count plays a role for your use case and you still want a great hifi system which can drive most speakers.

2. Step up 272 with 300DR, and for added refinement one could upgrade in the future with an XPS

3. Boxcount doesn't count - sound quality does. NDX potentialy powers by XPS, 252, 300DR

Why go for all the redundancy when ndx is pared with 272. . If ndx then 282 or 252 makes more sense, if price is not important.

Very good Arguments, both sides!

But the Fundamental Question, is based on the Longevity of the Analog Pre-Amp!

Interesting Article, a couple years ago:

{Google it in your spare time, a nice read!}

The end of Linn preamps means – well, the end of Linn preamps. That’s all.

Andrew Everard

""So, just as the CD player is showing no sign of vanishing any time soon – although these days it may also function as a Blu-ray machine or a means of ripping discs to hard-drive storage –, so I think it’s also somewhat early to write off the idea of a standalone preamplifier, and by association even the idea of having a separate amplifier in your system.""

Naim is interesting Company.

Naim Debut it's Reference CDP in 2007, Linn Ceases production of its CDPs in 2009.

Naim Debut it's Reference STATEMENT in 2014, Linn Ceases production of it's Analog Pre-Amp in 2015.

Perhaps Naim is a Dying Breed, A company that is still loyal to it's  Base. 

But on Topic, I think the 272 is a  sign of the times, and I would love to A-B Blind test with a 552, less known an 282!

Is the CD Dead?  

Is the Analog Pre-Amp Dead?  

JMHO!

Enjoy Your Music!

Allante93!

PS. Imagine, A Company who Pioneered the Analog TT, no longer produces an Analog Pre-Amp!

Wow!

Timo posted:

Timmo1341 posted:

Timo posted:

Timmo1341 posted:

Here we go - yet another 'source first' vs speakers argument!! I'm afraid I'm guilty of not adhering to electronics first. Traditional wisdom said I should have kicked my ProAc K6s into touch when they didn't work well with the 300DR which everyone on here said was a better amp than the 250DR. I chose to go with the 250 as it sounded sublime when paired with the K6s, the sound of which, to my ears, was better than any other speaker within my budget. 

I'm with Ryder on this one. At the very least determine which of the very different musical 'character' offered by the two different brands you prefer, then take it from there.

Did you start with the 272 or the K6?

272 with PS was my starting point (limited on box count I can accommodate). Speakers were always going to be larger ProAc (K6 or D48), as I love the ProAc sound. The variable was always going to be the amp. I can accommodate (just) 4 boxes, and my budget was able to stretch to the 300DR. That was my theoretical 'dream' system, but the sound just didn't cut it. Even when I replaced the K6s with existing D20r, the bass produced by the 300 was not good. Replacing it by the 250DR was nothing short of miraculous!

So I sort of went the 'source first', but only if you exclude amplification.

Quod erat demonstrandum  -- power amp isn't really part of the source, is it? 

Maybe yes, maybe no! There are some (HH amongst them) who will always maintain the electronics, including amplification, come first, before choosing speakers. My position is more fluid. When buying my first Naim system the choice of SuperUniti came first, the speakers were chosen to suit. This time around, had the ProAcs sounded less than optimal with the 272 (highly unlikely, it has to be said), I suppose I would have looked at other brands. My belief is that the synergy between amplification and speaker is the important factor, certainly in my experience.

It could be argued that getting the speakers right first is the more easier solution to building a successful system.

what with some speakers being large enough to give relief that moving them back in the box and arranging recollection is not needed. Black boxes are more easier to get in situ then put back in the box if not right.

andybass posted:

ryder. posted:

First thing is to determine the speakers that you like more - Proac or Focal. Then work from there.

Actually, I like Focal more ^.^

If everything else is = the 252 is going to be a more capable pre than the 272.   

I'm not trying to say that my approach is the right way, merely that it's what I would do. I don't care what the OP does. In this case everything is up in the air. The OP talks about getting a Core to store the music. Now, if that was connected to an nDac and a preamp, it would only play the music stored within it. If the OP got a 272 it would have iradio, Tidal and Spotify. An NDX would do that too, but it's not on the list of options. The OP needs to identify what they want the system to do. 

Hungryhalibut posted:

I'm not trying to say that my approach is the right way, merely that it's what I would do. I don't care what the OP does. In this case everything is up in the air. The OP talks about getting a Core to store the music. Now, if that was connected to an nDac and a preamp, it would only play the music stored within it. If the OP got a 272 it would have iradio, Tidal and Spotify. An NDX would do that too, but it's not on the list of options. The OP needs to identify what they want the system to do. 

I must agree more information is needed in this respect.