Upgrade bug/ where do I go from a superuniti

Not sure if the Quo ever found them...

Richard walker posted:

Ahh,...that strikes a..... with me.

yeah, but which one?

Richard walker posted:

Could someone please answer the question that I placed ? About the non/forbidden naim hardware?

Thans

OK, after the Kafkaesque departure of this thread...

It's definitely not permitted to discuss modifications to Naim hardware that Involve DC or AC power, or internal modification to Naim components - the term 'modification' also covers the use of 3rd party products intended to replace Naim items as their use constitutes a 'modification' to the system.

The reasons for this are to do with safety, the potential for damage to the Naim components and reliability - it's actually a very sensible rule when you really think about it.

This includes (but is not limited to)...
Power Supplies.
Internal modifications to Naim components (even if no modification to the DC power in the box).
Case Fuses
AC Power cables
SNAIC cables that carry DC power between components (3rd party SNAIC replacement cables are known as "Fake SNAICs"!)

Some limited discussion of AC power supply to the audio system is permitted provided it's made absolutely clear that the work is to be carried out by a fully qualified electrician (for safety reasons).

This is laid out in the Forum Rules.

dear ministry of truth, for clarity  .. this is my original question could someone please advise?

My choice to improve the sound appears to be to add to my su ..

1. SN1 with Naim PSU. ( i will never , ever consider alternatives :-)

2. Add a SN 2

3 Add a 250 -2

which will give the best improvement and how are they connected using only NAIM APROVED AND BOUGHT CABLES?

please note- i am not a hifi buff and dont intend to become one, i came here looking for advice...  we live in the Black Forest and the nearest Naim dealer is over one hour away- 

In the meantime I have exchanged the speakers for PMC 20 25s. The older version this gave an immediate improvement , again advice from a forum. 

For each upgrade I dont want to be spending more than 1600 per upgrade if poss.

I am prepared to sell my cyrus cd1 and psx along the way.

By the way, bought a mac mini and run roon with it to the SU dac via a wireworld nova 6 cable and it is very close to the cdi.

 Thanks

Richard

Richard walker posted:

<snip>

My choice to improve the sound appears to be to add to my su ..

1. SN1 with Naim PSU. ( i will never , ever consider alternatives :-)

2. Add a SN 2

3 Add a 250 -2

which will give the best improvement

<snip>

Well "best improvement" is really something you can only truly judge for yourself.   Having said that if  you tell us how you wish to change the characteristics of the sound we may be able to give some general guidance as to which options are more likely to give you what you want.  What we can't do is to know how the changes will be affected by the room you use to listen to music and how you yourself perceive music (everyone's ears and brain are different).

The only way to be certain is a home demo (but a dealer demo is still useful).  Don't you think that investing 2+ hours of your time (1hr each way) is worth it to ensure that you're going to be pleased after paying out £1,600?

As the SU doesn't have a line out connection (only pre-out and sub out), using it as a DAC only won't be so straightforward - I assume that is what you were intending to do with an integrated line the SN / SN2?  This in turn suggests the approach of adding a power amp may be better,  However the best thing to do is discuss what you expect and what you want to achieve with a Naim dealer.

I hope that while not giving you a definitive answer, this at least explains why we can't give you a definitive answer!

Natuarlly i have been to the dealer several times and just get more options each time.

One included- add an oppo sonica dac 

The other, buy and Nova .. I think it is called and the other buy a sn2.#

Naturally he wants to sell me something new and I am loathed to visit him on a regular time scale not only because of the distance, but because a better solution may be to buy something second hand.

My objective is to add weight to the sound and long term move away from the su which now appears to be moving toward being obsolete. 

Contrary to my previous post I find that ripping my cds and using roon via the mac mini gives avery similar sound to the cyrus cdi hence making it possible for me consider using the cash from its sale to add to my hifi.

Richard walker posted:

Natuarlly i have been to the dealer several times and just get more options each time.

One included- add an oppo sonica dac 

The other, buy and Nova .. I think it is called and the other buy a sn2.#

Naturally he wants to sell me something new and I am loathed to visit him on a regular time scale not only because of the distance, but because a better solution may be to buy something second hand.

<snip>

OK, it sounds like your dealer either isn't listening or isn't being very helpful.

Richard walker posted:

<snip>

My objective is to add weight to the sound

<snip>

That sounds as thought the 250.2 may be a suitable upgrade path for you.  By comparison to other Naim amps it's sometimes described as having a slightly darker and slightly heavier presentation.  Connection to the SU is easy, it's done with the cable that comes packaged with the 250!  Do try and get a home demo though (i.e. sale or return).

Richard walker posted:

<snip>

 and long term move away from the su which now appears to be moving toward being obsolete.

Contrary to my previous post I find that ripping my cds and using roon via the mac mini gives avery similar sound to the cyrus cdi hence making it possible for me consider using the cash from its sale to add to my hifi.

Longer term moving away from the SU would require a DAC, a preamp and power-amp - there's a lot packed into the SU, but you can do it in stages.

If thinking longer term the 250DR is a substantial improvement on the 250.2.  It retains the very solid sound signature, but is less 'dark' and preserves more delicate detail; but it is a lot more expensive still.

The Superuniti is already very good and I agree with Huge that adding a NAP 250 of one variety or another is probably the most sensible upgrade of the options you suggest. And if you do have to do that without hearing it first, at least you shouldn't lose too much money selling it on again.

best

David

Thanks! Very useful advice. If second hand how do i tell the difference between 250-2 and 250 dr . On the naim site it is not clear

I guess this is not too far away from what the dealer was suggesting with the later adding of the oppo sonica, it has a preamp in it too. He had one privately and said it was great, but was only prepared to order one. I would be crazy to do that when it was cheaper via amazon. At least via Amazon i can send it back Seems like step one would be to find a 250 either 2 or dr. Hence my question about how to tell them apart second hand

Richard walker posted:

...

Seems like step one would be to find a 250 either 2 or dr. Hence my question about how to tell them apart second hand

Read the label on the back!

On the naim website it shows the back, there is no mention of dr.in the image . In the product history it doesnt say anything either. There is the „olive“ version and then the new one

If the seller doesn't claim it to be DR, then it certainly won't be. The DR upgrade to a 250-2 is more than £1000...Also if it's either modified by Naim or an authorised service centre to be DR or built as one, it has a prominent DR sticker on the back.

i don't think you can DR Olive, but someone who knows better may contradict me.

best

David

Richard walker posted:

On the naim website it shows the back, there is no mention of dr.in the image . In the product history it doesnt say anything either. There is the „olive“ version and then the new one

The picture on the product page has DR on the amp, below the NAP 250 label. David is correct; the olive 250 cannot be DRed. The going rate for a 250 DR is about £2,250. It’s worth every penny more than the 250.2 in my view. 

If it were me I’d add a 250DR and then swap the SU for a 272. Alternatively, use the SU as a source for a Supernait and then swap the SU for an NDX. Another option is simply to swap the SU for a Nova. 

Thanks. I oversaw this. My budget will not stretch to the DR version so I will look for the 250-2 and by the power supply "that may not be named"

I may have missed something, but aren’t you thinking of adding a 250 to your SU? If so, why do you want a power supply?

You can't use an external PSU with a SU or a 250.

Exactly. Forget the power supply idea.

best

David

Why is a SU obsolete?

The SU is as good as it ever was, which is the point Lindsay is making. So a good strategy is to leave the SU alone and spend the money on something else, like music, wine, holidays, fast cars or whatever. 

Best

David

On the other hand if they are obsolete and going for peanuts I’ll have one for my study

They do work well in studies, as I can confirm myself....

And the big (and very pleasing to adjust) volume control you can turn down quickly when the phone rings is handy.

best

David

You can also put the phone on mute and use that lovely volume control to turn it up again a bit during those endless telephone conferences...

Work? What’s that?

We have a Qb in the study and it’s just perfect. 

It would only be part-time Nigel!