has to be a bad Hicap DR, as the one I have sounds amazing addition on a 202. transforms it to something else.

Mikie711 posted:

I have removed the Hicap DR completely from the system. I have a non DR Hicap which I did originally have for powering the stageline but took it off when I first got the DR as it sounded rubbish. It is definitely 100% a faulty Hicap DR no doubt about it now.  Currently listening to Pink Floyd The Wall and you would not believe the difference between the 2 Hicaps. 

As the Hicap settles in,

{it's been switched off for the better part of a week}

, it's just getting better and better. 

I usually turn my volume down, and leave system powered on.

Unless, Lighting or a storm is headed my way!

Being new to the Forum, This is Mr Richard Danes take on it:

Mikie711, there are tons of threads on burn in time periods, you might want to check this one out:

272 vs 282 - now we haven't discussed that one have we

OK, for the removal of any confusion, the HCDR is 2 years old and the issue has nothing to do with burn in and the system has been left switched on since I got about 10 days ago. The issue is there is a fault with the HCDR, the reason I came to that conclusion was I changed only the HCDR with a non DR HC, no leads or power cords, just swapped one hicap for another and immediately the sound was transformed and I am not talking  a slight change here. Think more like listening to music off your phone on a £10 bluetooth speaker to listening on a well set up Naim system. So without a shadow of doubt it's the HCDR which tomorrow will be winging it's way back to Naim for a health check. The reason the system was set up this way was because I thought that the greatest benefit to the system would come from having the HCDR power the 202 and the non DR HC power the stage line, which should have brought the greatest sounding system and when I get the HCDR back that is how it will be fitted into the system, in stages this time to be better able to hear the change each Hicap brings to the whole.

The reason the non DR HC was off for a week was because I removed it out of the system altogether when the system didn't sound like I thought it should I just never suspected the HCDR as it was a year newer than the non DR HC. I even went back to no HC's in the system but obviously never gave it long enough to settle in before adding the HCDR back in.

I hope that all makes some sort of sense and I will report back once I get the HCDR back from Naim/Dealer

Moving on now, before we all get too side tracked, back to the 282 v's N-272 discussion

On the N-272 V's 282 discussion, I do still like the idea of a one box pre and streamer. I take onboard the thoughts about the NDX but that makes for one more box, although it does leave a easier upgrade path via 282/252 in the future without having to then add a streamer when changing the N-272.

One question, is the N-272 pre amp section better, the sam, worse or just different to the 202?

My head is starting to hurt, to much choice!

Mikie711 posted:

One question, is the N-272 pre amp section better, the sam, worse or just different to the 202?

For me, the answer is that I'd still take a 202 over a 272. Add an XPS DR to the 272, and it might be a harder decision. 

In my view, on overall sound quality terms, the 272 bare is considerably better than a 202 powered by a 200, and still appreciably better than a 202 powered by a HiCap.

When a 272 is powered by an XPSDR, then it starts to get a lot closer to 282 level (but still isn't quite there).

There is a difference in the balance of the sound between all three, so you really do have to hear them for yourself to understand the difference and which one is best for you.

Mikie -- i found that the Dyna 10x5 was unequivocally better when partnered with the Dyna P75 phono stage instead of the Stageline N. (like, a no-doubter!) i'd encourage you to have a listen to this combo. and with the P75, you won't need a powered socket on whatever preamp you upgrade to.

--joe

Huge posted:

In my view, on overall sound quality terms, the 272 bare is considerably better than a 202 powered by a 200, and still appreciably better than a 202 powered by a HiCap.

When a 272 is powered by an XPSDR, then it starts to get a lot closer to 282 level (but still isn't quite there).

There is a difference in the balance of the sound between all three,

{so you really do have to hear them for yourself to understand the difference and which one is best for you.}

No hands on experience, but that is exactly what I was thinking!

Allante93!

PS . That was Huge, you've mastered the hi fi jargon! 

Huge posted:

There is a difference in the balance of the sound between all three, so you really do have to hear them for yourself to understand the difference and which one is best for you.

This is the crux of the matter. We all have our own take on such comparisons, based (hopefully) on our own listening experiences. Different rooms, sources, speakers, phases of the moon, or whatever, mean that there will never be full agreement on what is the best option. If anyone wants an absolute guide to the relative merits of different Naim boxes, the price list is an uncannily accurate yardstick. 

Mikie711 posted:

On the N-272 V's 282 discussion, I do still like the idea of a one box pre and streamer. I take onboard the thoughts about the NDX but that makes for one more box, although it does leave a easier upgrade path via 282/252 in the future without having to then add a streamer when changing the N-272.

One question, is the N-272 pre amp section better, the sam, worse or just different to the 202?

My head is starting to hurt, to much choice!

I have no comment on the 272 vs 202 or 282 as I do not have experience with the 272. However, I share the same sentiment on the idea of the streamer separated from the preamp. It's a matter of preference really. I am old school and prefer the preamp to be just a dedicated pre. No built-in stuff such as streamers or DAC etc. Of course you will have more boxes to go along with it.

If you still entertain the possibility of a 272 as an upgrade from the 202, the usual advice is to compare both in your system if possible, then decide which sounds best to your ears. Naim regard the 272 to sit between the 202 and 282 and for this reason the 272 is supposed to sound better than the 202. However, as we all know people have their own preferences. Some prefer the Nait XS to the 202/200 or 282 to the 252, hence I am not surprised if some find the 202 to sound better than the 272. 

I'm old school too. I like my pre to be a dedicated preamp. And whatever ppl say about 202, I've used it for 7 years and can't find any issue with it, it's a fantastic preamp

source first still applies for me that's where I would spend the money instead of 282 or 272

Im saying with benefit on hindsight and after buying 282

282 is very good but still - source first 

Mikie711 posted:

My head is starting to hurt, to much choice!

Then wait !

The world of digital and streamer based electronics are moving extremely fast

Analog not so much, current preamp range (202, 282, 252) is based on older versions back in the eighties.

I'm sure Naim has new range on the drawing table, I guess revision of N-272 is just around the corner, maybe even new boxes following recent Uniti range (Nova, Atom etc.)

old version back in the 80's?

Maybe you are from software world, but I am very happy with my Naim 282, and I'm certainly not swapping that out for a 272 or any variant of a new uniti.

The 282 will only be replaced by a 552 or Statement S1

Having had all of the kit discussed in this thread at some point or other, some of it for many years, I'm bemused by some of the comments. I had 8 boxes at one time (252/300/ndac/555 leve) and now find the 272/250DR bare really does hold its own. It has a beautiful sonic signature which just gets on with communicating the music.

imho

G

Fair enough Graeme, I do understand what you're saying.....

But I'm not convinced - I like my 202 and 282 more than a 272 as I use those with Chord digital front ends.

I never liked the one box electronics where the preamp is in the box with a transformer like Supernait or Superuniti or 272. But that's more a belief, rather an fact, and I'm not that keen to experiment anymore.

But yes going back to 2010, if these were available, I would buy a Nova or Star and be very happy with those.

I'm now locked into what I got and I'm too happy with the music/sound to change it for anything else.

Mikie711 posted:

On the N-272 V's 282 discussion, I do still like the idea of a one box pre and streamer. I take onboard the thoughts about the NDX but that makes for one more box, although it does leave a easier upgrade path via 282/252 in the future without having to then add a streamer when changing the N-272.

One question, is the N-272 pre amp section better, the sam, worse or just different to the 202?

My head is starting to hurt, to much choice!

In my experience the 272 preamp is better than the 202, but that's from memory not direct comparison. Others will say different, and it really doesn't matter. If you fancy a combined streamer/preamp then go for it and don't worry about what others say. Asking on the Forum can sometimes lead to overthinking and paralysis by analysis. 

For what it's worth, I'd sell the 202, napsc and a hicap, and get a 272. I'd next try both a 250DR and XPSDR. I'm sure the speakers would benefit from the extra power, while the XPS will vastly improve both the streamer and preamp. I'm not saying that this is the right thing to do, merely that it's what I'd do. Just decide whether you are happy with lots of boxes. 

analogmusic posted:

old version back in the 80's?

 

Yep

Thats quite simple, its no reimagination

The original 12 was developed to 32

Later .5 to match hicap psu replacing snaps

32.5 became to 72 very similar electronics

52 was a late 80'ies statement but based on previous design with better & beefier psu

202 full width box was meant to replace 72 adding a remote and Nac 52 phono cards (5 series)

(It is later much discussed pros & cons 102 vs 72) different layout

Nac 82 developed as a budget 52 with a Napsc only for using the 180 to power up or adding a HC or SC

When Naim changed range around 2000-2002 the in-board phonocards were ditched in favour of Stageline external phonostage

New black boxes were born, 102 became 202, 82 became 282 etc..

Your 202 is based on this tech and not to be ashamed of, its brilliant, even the differences in between, its all excellent stuff

What the future brings is exiting

Yes but the roadmap has already been set with statement S1 preamp

Perol posted:

Mikie711 posted:

My head is starting to hurt, to much choice!

Then wait !

The world of digital and streamer based electronics are moving extremely fast

Analog not so much, current preamp range (202, 282, 252) is based on older versions back in the eighties.

I'm sure Naim has new range on the drawing table, I guess revision of N-272 is just around the corner, maybe even new boxes following recent Uniti range (Nova, Atom etc.)

This is precisely my consideration. Digital things - especially streaming - is moving very fast. I'm waiting to see the appearance of the latest developments in the Classic range.

Ardbeg10y posted:

Perol posted:

Mikie711 posted:

My head is starting to hurt, to much choice!

Then wait !

The world of digital and streamer based electronics are moving extremely fast

Analog not so much, current preamp range (202, 282, 252) is based on older versions back in the eighties.

I'm sure Naim has new range on the drawing table, I guess revision of N-272 is just around the corner, maybe even new boxes following recent Uniti range (Nova, Atom etc.)

This is precisely my consideration. Digital things - especially streaming - is moving very fast. I'm waiting to see the appearance of the latest developments in the Classic range.

Now that's some SOUND advice!

Front end, Great~ Keel/Kore

Tail End, Looks Good, Great~ you like them

Soooo!

Wall mount for LP 12

A rack that fits your fancy:

Three feet vs 4 feet

Cosmetics

And I bet you will appreciate that 202/200 a bit more!

JMHO!

Allante93!

Mikie711 the question is 272 or 282 so my answer would be I'm sure you can't go far wrong with a preloved N-272.

On the other hand, you are looking to give streaming a try and are unsure how best to invest your money. There is a no-risk way to try streaming but it does mean some tinkering so if you're not that way inclined stop here and take the 272. You will also need a PC or Mac.

If you're still curious... get hold of a Raspberry Pi/Hifiberry Digi+ bundle and an optical S/PDIF cable for about €100. Get over to the Roon Community, get clued up on how to install their software on PC and Pi. You can start with a free trial license. Get on the bay and find a preloved Chord Mojo DAC (about €300) or Hugo (€1000). Connect it all up to your 202 and see how you get on with streaming.

From there you can either use your money to invest in a stonking Naim amp system (that's what they are really good at) and/or a better DAC. You will also end up with fewer boxes because you don't have to add a massive power supply to your front end and you will be amazed at how you can redisover your music using Roon.

Good luck with whatever you choose.

William

Mikie711 posted:

My system as it stands is 202/200, NAPSC, HiCAP DR, Stageline (currently powered by 202) Linn LP12, Ekos SE, Kore, Lingo 3, Dynavector 10X5 all feeding a pair of Dynaudio X38's

I am auditioning an N-272 later this week while also listening to their 202/200 system and hopefully get a home dem to try it in my system but my dealer doesn't have a 282 to compare. 

Thoughts on the above much appreciated and any suggestions as to why I can't get the system to sound half decent would also be appreciated

i had a 202/200/HCDR for a number of years with NDX/LP12 as a source and it was a delight, on which to choose 272 or NDX - as you have the 202/200 and LP12 I would go NDX if your plan if uis to add in 282 - but it's a coin toss - again help and audtion from dealer

GraemeH posted:

Having had all of the kit discussed in this thread at some point or other, some of it for many years, I'm bemused by some of the comments. I had 8 boxes at one time (252/300/ndac/555 leve) and now find the 272/250DR bare really does hold its own. It has a beautiful sonic signature which just gets on with communicating the music.

imho

G

Actually all Naim amps are able to communicate the music. It's just that some amps communicate better than others though that's more toward the listener's own taste or preferences.

It is interesting that you downgraded from the 252/300/NDAC/555 and find the 272/250DR to satisfy. One thing is for sure, 2 boxes are a lot better than 8 !