Naim app metadata
Posted by: tony69 on 15 September 2017
Hi all, brand new forum member as of this very morning despite having had Mu-So x 3 for a while and now an Atom....
can anybody help me with a challenge on the Naim app?? I use an InnuOS ZenII mini media server and have ripped my 500 CDs... three albums as I have seen thus far, all Queen Of The Stone Age rip perfectly well on the Zen and can be viewed through any other media app to be albums by the correct artist.. however, on the Naim app it will not pick up QoTSA as the artist. In fact it picks up some random metadata, real names but not artists, that seems to have absolutely nothing to do with the real artist... it then will not recognise the even 'fake artist' to catalogue the albums under that name... effectively the Naim app orphans these albums from the Artist......
I have ripped (assisted) direct into Zen, ripped without assistance (i.e. I can inspect the metadata first), rip to apple lossless on Mac, then convert to FLAC, then import to Zen.... every which way results in the Zen correctly cataloguing the albums against the correct artist but the Naim App screws up this metadata and orphans the album from the artist (i.e. Won't list it against the artist), and puts in the same random names as the artist. InnuOS, iPeng etc all see the correct metadata when looking at the same source, but not the Naim app... any ideas???
The Naim app is a dumb thing that cannot screw up metadata. All it shows is what the upnp server sends to the streamer. If you look at the metadata using something like dbpoweramp you will be able to find what is wrong with the rip. Metadata will be missing or incorrect.
Like your taste in music!
Does Naim app display the metadata for QoTSA correctly for the mu-so? Or is this problematic for mu-so as well as Atom?
Yes, per HH, don't blame the app, it can only read what the server is showing it. I also suspect the media server UPnP/DLNA software, I've not seen the InnuOS ZenII so can't help much, & doubt many on the forum have either. I see it has a quick start guide for Naim Uniti & Muso which is reassuring, Its strange that other software can see it OK, but I suspect the answer is in either metadata or media software somewhere.
Hi and thanks for the responses. I could not agree with your responses more. I have explored all these options and examined metadata via dbpoweramp, the innuOS, iTunes, iPeng and they all show only accurate metadata under every perceivable viewing option. I understand what you're saying re the Naim app being a dumb client, as it were, and thus my trying different means to lose erroneous metadata by trying different ripping/conversion/transfer modes but this scramble is only happening on the Naim app, for these albums and, Klout10, on the app for all 4 Mu-So, Qb, Qb and Atom. I could post pictures of everything else showing correct metadata except the Naim app. If I find the album and play from albums (rather than finding by artist) the metadata shows correctly on the screen of the Atom... the issue therefore is with the app and only the app.
Hopefully you can see why I am so baffled?!?!? ;0)
I'd suggest that the 'artist' and 'album artist' tags are different. If you set each 'artist' tag to be the same as the 'album artist' it should then be ok. Note the 'should' rather than would. Some of these metadata issues are decidedly weird.
Hi HungryHalibut, thanks for your suggestion. Yes I have tried this too. Everywhere on apps, server, Atom screen, etc it says Artist: Queens Of The Stone Age, Album Artist: Queens Of The Stone Age... On Naim app it say: Cindy Wilson; Ricky wilson; Robert Waldrop;Keith Strickland...... and so it continues.....
Weird on a grande scale!
Sorry if this seems like a slight hijack but what version of the App are you using and what do folks here recommend? I am in the process finally of setting up my network for NAC 272/Synology DS216 and given the problems with the update to v5.7.1 from 5.6, should I be installing v5.6 or v5.7.2 on my iPad? Thanks
Hi OddTimeJon, I am all up to date on 5.7.5, build 507508. Please don't see my post as a reason not to update... this is a strange thing happening on 3 of 522 albums only. All else is sweet
Sorry HungryHalibut, to add, I cannot search or look up 'Cindy Wilson; Ricky wilson; Robert Waldrop;Keith Strickland.....'. as an artist
It's always hard to understand issues as written, but it seems that the metadata has the members of the B52s as artist and QotSS as album artist. The app and streamer simply cannot get muddled in this way. Have you actually checked the artist and album artist metadata for these three albums? Have you cleared the app's upnp cache - albeit a long shot.
I believe that there are actually 3 different "Artist" tags in general use i.e. "ARTIST" , "ALBUM ARTIST" and "ALBUMARTIST" (without a space between). It might be an idea downloading mp3tag (it's free) and checking the extended tags (Alt + T) to see whether all 3 are the same or somehow the errant ones appear in one of these tags and is being picked up by the naim app.
Thanks Tony69. I haven't ever installed the App yet (I'm more behind the curve than you!) and so if (based on previous threads on here) I am better advised to try and find v 5.6 to download then I would prefer to do so still, notwithstanding that your issue is probably not App related.
I'd just load the latest one and get on with it. There will be another along in a while anyway, as sure as eggs is eggs.
I will check AlbumArtist but am 99% sure it's QoTSA.. - will report back. I appreciate all the help guys. Thanks
Hungryhalibut posted:The Naim app is a dumb thing that cannot screw up metadata. All it shows is what the upnp server sends to the streamer. If you look at the metadata using something like dbpoweramp you will be able to find what is wrong with the rip. Metadata will be missing or incorrect.
HH, if this is really the case, then why are some album titles displayed differently when streamed via my mu-so Qb than via the Atom?
Like SBJABBEY has mentioned already it is often a good idea to check the extended tags with MP3TAG (the best software for all tag related actions imo by the way) ...
Klout10 posted:Hungryhalibut posted:The Naim app is a dumb thing that cannot screw up metadata. All it shows is what the upnp server sends to the streamer. If you look at the metadata using something like dbpoweramp you will be able to find what is wrong with the rip. Metadata will be missing or incorrect.
HH, if this is really the case, then why are some album titles displayed differently when streamed via my mu-so Qb than via the Atom?
Maybe because they use different streaming platforms? Or maybe the app really does change things? Basically, I don't know.
I suspect the app is reading from the streamer (Muso or Atom) hence the diff.
Hi again all. From what I can see there is no ALBUMARTIST metadata on the files either.....
So ARTIST on everything apart from App is reading correct, ALBUMARTIST has no value showing in mp3tag or anything else that I can see... ALBUM ARTIST is reading correct on all apart from the App.... The mind boggles.....
In mp3tag I can only see one extended tag showing, ENCODER. If I add an ALBUMARTIST tag it shows no values on the album or the tracks.... I can't be sure I know what I am doing on mp3tag but it didn't complain and showed me what I expected it to show me....
BTW, if I go into B-52s artist on the Naim app, the albums are not in there either.... they don't seem to be assigned to any Artist tag, including the 'Cindy Wilson; Ricky wilson; Robert Waldrop;Keith Strickland.....'
Sorry HungryHalibut, yes, I cleared all app cache and for all devices last night, several times
Tony,
You could try using mp3tag to create the same value for all 3 tags using the extended tags option (Alt + T). To add a tag/field click on the top icon (star inside a sheet of paper) and select the tag name from the field box dropdown list and type in the artist name. If you need to edit a tag field click on the second icon (paper with a pen). To save your edits press OK.
Hopefully, if you have all 3 artist tags with the same name then the naim app should pick up the correct artist name regardless of which version of the "Artist" tag is being sent to the app by your media server.
Tony, it might be a good idea to involve Naim in this as there seem to be several issues regarding metadata ... drop them an email at: support@naimaudio.com
I wonder what upnp server the Zen thing uses - that might be the issue. Certainly, in Asset, you can get the 'tracks' view and search for songs - then you would know what the artist was. The issue has to be with the metadata/upnp server interaction. But exactly what the issue is seems rather odd. Still, look on it as a challenge!!
Tis definitely a challenge HungryHalibut.... I have now done as SJBABBEY suggested and gone into mp3tag to make all 3 tags/extended tags QoTSA... then deleted app cache and.... to no avail....
The Zen shows all the data correctly as do the other apps HungryHalibut... I can search on those by QoTSA and the three albums show up as expected, just not on Naim App..... when I search for the album by album name on anything I can find and then play.... on the Atom it is displaying all the right metadata as per the Zen and the other apps...
I will mail Naim support as Klout10 suggests because it is beyond me as to why only 3 albums and in only 1 of 7 interfaces (innuOS (Zen), Naim App, iPeng, Atom, VLC, mp3tag, dbpoweramp) am I having this issue.
Its beyond the skills of this mere mortal... thanks everybody for your advice and ideas, most appreciated and most responsive.
By the way, I am still running the Atom in and it sounds sweet with my Monitor Audio Gold 200s... looking forward to it only getting better!
I would echo Klout's suggestion above. Best get Naim support in on this, although it now being Friday night, perhaps email or ring on Monday.