NAP250.2 with Dynaudio Focus 160

Analog - You could be heading for a debate as to the definition of "miles better".   

what 2 forum members told me is the same as what Richard Dane said above : " there are no "bad" NAP250s of any type or age. They're all fab and they're all bona fide classics."

I personally found that sources and the cables used in the system are quite important, use non-naim cables and the performance changes.

They are all fab but the 250.2 is less fab and the 250DR is miles fabber. Easy. I’ve owned them all so don’t need to ask others. 

that's your view HH, but not one that is shared by others including some dealers.

Anyway it's all a moot point, since the 250 one can buy now is the 250DR if buying new.

I personally bought 250 DR as I just wanted the best one 

I've owned both  the 250.2 and the 250DR, and in the interests of clarity and so that our continental colleagues can follow this, I would say the 250DR is several kilometres ahead of the 250.2.

Your mileage (or is that kilometerage) may vary.

I think Analog the 250-2 was somewhat choosey as to the speakers it was paired with, whereas the DR version is frankly a tart and will settle with a wide variety of partners

Claus posted:

Richard, your post could  be understood like you think that partnered with SBL's a 250.2 would make a better choice than a 250DR, is that correct? 

I have an olive 250 (badly in need of service) which has been fine with the SBL's, in my room I haven't felt any upper-bass hump, rather the opposite. I have considered replacing it with a new (ish?) 250DR in stead of having the old one serviced, I'm not sure though if the upgrade with 250DR can justify the extra cost. 

Regards,
Claus

Claus, you'd be reading too much into my post then.  To my ears the NAP250DR was a very worthwhile upgrade over the NAP250.2 (just serviced at the factory). And also it's a worthwhile upgrade over my CB NAP250. I use SL2s.  I'd imagine the same would apply to SBLs.  If your source and pre-amp are up to scratch then... Go for it.

Which is exactly what I said above. Well, more or less. The 250DR is just great with SL2s. 

Even my NAP250 from 1985 is fab, maybe not fabber but to me fab.

My Proac Tab 10 only require fab

I just got lucky and picked up a 250DR second hand from my dealer to go with my Nova. This is much earlier than I had planned, but a 250-2 upgraded in 2015 for £2k, just had to go for it. Sounded grumpy for a couple of hours, then sprung into life.

Gazza posted:

I just got lucky and picked up a 250DR second hand from my dealer to go with my Nova. This is much earlier than I had planned, but a 250-2 upgraded in 2015 for £2k, just had to go for it. Sounded grumpy for a couple of hours, then sprung into life.

That is a bargain. Even though you have a redundant power amp in your Nova, the simple act of separating it in the form of a 250DR from the Nova will undoubtedly bring real benefits to SQ.

The 250DR is a wonderful bit of kit which you have managed to acquire for very little money.

Enjoy.

I did demo the Nova, and Nova with a 250 dr, so It was on my radar screen. Next stop will be the next generation Naim preamp streamers, I hope that Nova will be a better part exchange than the current n272?. Happy to wait for a few years, now?

analogmusic posted:

I've spoken to other Naim forum members who say the 250 DR isn't necessarily miles ahead of 250.2....  

 

Is this Analoq mission asking/quoting everybody else, read/repeat everywhere marketing blurp etc. but no opinion or personal experience himself ?

Maybe there's a reward for this ?

Perol don’t worry yourself about my reward or mission. I got plenty of naim auditions over the years and plenty of opinions. If you care to notice I always respect our moderator opinion.

I had an opportunity to buy an old serviced CB 250 at the same time as when I bought my 250dr and chose wisely to just buy the latest 250dr

it’s just a hi fi discussion. That’s what the forum is about 

i quoted the nap 500 stuff to explain to badlands that there’s a lot more than transformers size to evaluate the naim amps hierarchy 

The Strat (Fender) posted:

Richard Dane posted:

Richard - you have articulated my thoughts/experience with the 250-2 in a way that I have failed.  I'd heard it in demonstrations where I thought wow I want that, yet on my then Contour 1.8s it seemed laden whereas the 200 just grooved away.  

Regards,

Lindsay

150% agreed!

Beautiful Richard, that short piece, said a lot"

"As for the NAP250.2.  This is/was an excellent amplifier. It extended the effective resolution and bandwidth of the NAP250 at both ends.  In truth it was a "faster" amp, but it also asked more of the source and pre-amp. Pre-amp wise the NAC252 or 552 were the best partners.  A NAC282 worked OK but a NAC202 with any power supply just didn't work with the NAP250.2. However, the NAP250.2 did have a certain warmth to it, a slight opacity and impression of a hump in the upper bass that was fine on a speaker like the IBL, SL2 or SBL, but which was exactly where so many other speaker makers would give a little boost - I guess because most people tend to like it.  Combined, it could be a little too much that at best could reduce the impression of pace, and at worst could make the sound a bit muddy and stodgy, particularly when compared against its junior sibling, the NAP200."

I know I keep repeating this, but please dont beat me up, just ignore me! LOL!!!

But, think about!

CES 2007, Naim debut it's Reference CDP , with A trio of 250.2s.

Richard called it out, the 250.2 requires a better source and Pre Amp.

Now here's the beauty, Naim choose to debut it's Reference CDP, with an 282!!!!

Now even I know, the CD555 natural partner should be an S1, I meant  552.

Just maybe,  as Mr. Richard Dane has pointed out, the 282 is more forgiving than a 252.

Hence, in an Active System, saves on set-up, doesn't reveal the weak area's CES demo of Naim's Reference CDP!

So what's my point, Someone affiliated with Naim, took a chance on their Middle of the Road Pre, to debut Naim's $30K CDP.

Getting long winded, But Richard called it, the 250.2 is a heck of an Amp, with a strong front end!

Allante93!

PS. That Trio of 250.s, really paired nice with Naim's Reference Speakers!

Nice job, Richard!

JMHO!

analogmusic posted:

i quoted the nap 500 stuff to explain to badlands that there’s a lot more than transformers size to evaluate the naim amps hierarchy 

Couple of things, first, I really don't need anybody to explain the Naim hierarchy to me, I think I can figure it out for myself, especially since I have been an owner of Naim equipment for close to thirty five years.

Second thing is, we weren't discussing amp hierarchy, I was pointing out to another member that the output of the 250 and SN2 are for the most part exactly the same, and then you take what I have to say as some kind of personal insult and tell me in your not so subtle way how inferior my non regulated SN2 is to your highly vaulted regulated 250DR. Putting pictures on the forum, spewing some rhetoric and posting some quotes that had nothing to do with what was being discussed. I am constantly being misquoted by you about my beliefs on cables and all things Naim, and I find it pretty amusing most of the time, especially from someone who obviously knows less about this stuff than myself.

It is true that I don't need to spend large amounts of money on stereo equipment and cables to enjoy music, I learned that a long time ago. I can get that same emotional bond I have to music whether it's on a boom box or a cost no object system. I honestly don't feel like I'm being shortchanged by not having a $4000.00 dollar interconnect instead of a $2000.00 dollar interconnect like some here do. I start to think that most here feel the equipment is more important than the music, and when it gets to that point it starts to take the fun away. Personally, I don't believe Naim started out that way, and I'm kind of sorry to see that the philosophy has somewhat changed over the years, and so have the owners of the equipment.

 I do have a suggestion for you though, you really need to get another hobby, and stop taking this stereo stuff too seriously. After all, it has everything to do with the music, and it has nothing to do with the music!

I think you're taking things a little personally and my intention was never to insinuate the unregulated amps are inferior to the regulated ones.

I learnt what a regulated amp was from this forum (from Richard Dane), and was posting some stuff which I found interesting for the forum. I never really knew what makes the 500 special, until Darke Bear mentioned something a few years ago about the speaker return current being eliminated from signal earth. Certainly it took less than 2 minutes when I compared my 250 DR to a 500 (non DR)- the difference was day and night, the 500 is really special.

A few years ago I wouldn't even know what signal earth meant, so just trying to help others - let's not kid ourselves, the forum is also purposefully trying to help people "upgrade" 

Yes the company has changed (a little) but the world is changing every day, isn't it?

We're still very lucky to have Naim make fantastic kit for us, unlike many companies which are gone and could not adapt to this changing world. I can confirm that the standard cables do a great job Badlands, but it's nice to have upgrade options, certainly they're not compulsions at all.

Now the new Chord Array (Clearway, Shawline) Cables are really good and aren't very expensive, and the Chord Mojo/ Hugo are game changers, it's pretty fantastic for people who love music, certainly this kind of hi-fi was never available 35 years ago 

As for telling me to get another hobby, that's never going to happen. 

Is there a ignore button somewhere ?

you didn't contribute anything relevant to the OP question Perol in this thread.

You joined this forum only a few weeks ago August 28 2017 and seem to be a newcomer here.

The OP  doesn't have the option for a CB or olive 250, he only asked if 250.2 was a good move, and you proceeded to tell him 250.2 was worse than a NAP 200, which is not true.

I've got full-on man flu and this thread isn't going to ease the suffering

analogmusic posted:

you didn't contribute anything relevant to the OP question Perol in this thread.

You joined this forum only a few weeks ago August 28 2017 and seem to be a newcomer here.

The OP  doesn't have the option for a CB or olive 250, he only asked if 250.2 was a good move, and you proceeded to tell him 250.2 was worse than a NAP 200, which is not true.

 

 

Thanks for the refresh, which confirm you completely fail to understand the context

Now where was that ignore button..

I admire some of the passion shown here, but please could members remember that we're just talking about opinions and experiences of (very good) amplifiers here, and ensure that their posts are not observations or opinions made about their fellow forum members. 

I'm not entirely sure what being a newcomer has to do with anything. A knowledgeable newcomer can provide far more meaningful insight than an old timer who knows very little. As it happens I prefer the 200 to the 250.2, having owned both, and nobody can say I'm wrong. They may not agree and that's fine. It's not a case of better or worse, true or untrue, it's just a matter of opinion rather than fact. 

You, Anolog, do seem to be beating particular drums, citing all sorts of reasons as to why you are right, when it really doesn't matter. I've been accused in the past of pushing what I own excessively, which I never meant to do but if people perceived that I was doing it than that must have been the unintended consequence of what I was writing. I try very hard not to do that now, and hopefully I've achieved that aim. If people ask for my view and they then ignore it, it's up to them. If they think something I like is overhyped rubbish then that's their view and they are entitled to it. Nobody on here is better than anyone else, irrespective of how long they have been contributing to the Forum; we are all just people who want to enjoy their music as much as we can. Perhaps it might be a good thing to try to let go sometimes. 

I feel a bit guilty for starting this debate. I am not a newbie, as such, but am back in this hobby after a lengthy sabbatical. My comments are probably too purile for some:

1.   We all have different tastes, which is why so many hifi companies exist. 

2.   The components in the box are a factor in how the box sounds. 

3.   Whether we like the sound depends on 1. above.

You could put a nuclear power plant in my amplifier, but I would still want to audition it (perhaps from a safe distance in that case).  

You could put a small nuclear power plant in your amp which should give very impressive numbers into 2 ohms.

I think it would sound like pants though. 

How good an amp sounds is down to good design and it never seems to come cheap.

FWIW I added a 250.2 to the preamp of an SN2 and much preferred it to the bare SN2 proving to me, at any rate, that the 250.2 has likeable qualities and is better than the SN2 power amp section.

The 250.2 is a great amp but, as Richard has mentioned, it's characteristics need to be matched to the system to achieve good results.