NAP300 DR or NAP500 Non DR with NAC552

Hi I have not heard the 552 or 500

but I did today bring my 250DR which I had on home dem back to my dealer and picked up a 300DR after a few hours warming it is just amazing

i just got my naim boxes on to a naim lite but my chord signature would not reach the amp so was a bit worried about buying 3.5m of NACA5 but it all sounds really Wow

good luck with the 552/500 I am sure it will be amazing.

500. Without a doubt. 

I loved my 300 but 500 is another kind of beast. 500 DR is better by quite some margin but it doesn't make a bare 500 worse.

//Jonas

//Jonas

I haven't compared the 300DR to a 500. The 300 is a completely different proposition to the 500. They don't sound remotely the same and going from 300 to 500 is not a case of "the same but more". They are both very good at how they portray music but different. If a DR on a 300 makes it sound more like a 500, then the 300ness has gone, and that's sad. It's a lovely amp.

With a 552, the 500 is the obvious choice. Expensive and capable as they are, the combination still manages to be more than the sum of its parts. If that sounds crazy, just let your ears decide.

The 300 also goes brilliantly with the 552. A superb combination. You wouldn't think that a 500 could justify the price difference. Until you hear one. You can't lose. If your resources will accommodate a 500, pre DR or not, you will probably be saving time and money by going straight to it. Then the 300 to 500 upgrade budget that you will inevitably be scraping together down the road, can go on the 500 DR upgrade.

Might it depend on the choice of speakers?

not really the 500 is something else than all the lesser Naim preamps. I'd get the 500.

analogmusic posted:

not really the 500 is something else than all the lesser Naim preamps. I'd get the 500.

Can you explain why in your view speakers are not a consideration? 

300dr eats a 500nodr for lunch

If you can afford it it's really a no brainer 552/500 and I agree with ANALOGMUSIC it doesn't depend on the speakers and I will explain why I think it doesn't.  As some of you know because I may have mentioned it once or twice  I recently traded up to a 300 from a 250 and my sub £2K speakers are transformed and until I'm able to trade them up I'm more than happy with them.  So whatever the speakers (within reason) you decide to go with the 500 will get more out of them than the 300 all day everyday and the 552 is it's natural partner.

When I was considering 250 DR or 300 non DR I was given the advice that a next level Nap non DR will beat the level below with DR and I'm glad I took that advice.

Without a shadow of a doubt, get the 500.  How good it will be depends on age to an extent but I bought mine at 9yrs and it blew my 135s away.  When I took my 500 to be serviced and DR'd, I had a 300 on loan, after switching back to the 500DR upon return, that absolutely blew the 300 away.  The 500 is a different beast to the 300 (DR or no DR).  Prepare to get blown away by the 500.

It has nothing to do with speakers as the Nap 500 is a bridged design - which disconnects the negative terminal of the speaker cable from the preamp and source.

So why is this important? Well unfortunately there are return currents from the speaker that flow back into the system and pollute the signal earth which must always be at Zero voltage, since that is the reference against which the signal is amplified. ALL amplifiers suffer from this issue, and that's why Naim created the 552 and 500, which deal with this issue and completely eliminate noise from the signal earth (both of them together)

Since the NAP 500 is basically 2 NAP 300 connected in opposite polarity, the design allows this, and also has a lot more regulation than a NAP 300 and some further advanced design tweaks, which Naim don't really reveal.

Basically the NAP 300, is more or less a Nap 250, but configured so that the transformers are kept away from the transistors, so allowing a more transparent sound, and also and some further advanced design tweaks, which Naim don't really reveal.

The NAP 500 is a completely different beast, and more much advanced design.

That is why  NAP 500 should be used on the high frequencies in an active configuration, if there is only another NAP 300 or NAP250.

It has a lot less noise, allowing more high frequency clarity, which are simply blurred by the Nap 250/300. Yes DR or non DR, the NAP 500 is much superior to even 300 DR. You have to hear them side by side with a top source like Chord Dave , LP12 and 552, and with some top flight speakers to hear the difference between a 300DR and non DR 500. When I compared my 250 DR to a NAP 500 with a 552, my jaw dropped all the way down, such was the difference.

That is why Naim change a LOT more for NAP 500. Unfortunately for our wallets

The NAP 500 has no issues with timing, it is a super fast amplifier like all the Naim below it, but as you go higher, needs more careful placement and cable dressing.

The partner of the 552 is the 500, for the full 500 series effect  - that is "live music" in your living room

The above makes perfect sense. The other factor is that you can always upgrade to DR status in a few years time if you got the NAP 500

Yes it is unfortunately one of the Naim myths that Nap 500 was created for more power, that was not the original design goal, but a by product of using a bridged design.

Similarly NAP 300 offers a little more power than Nap 250, but actually that is due to better thermal stability - because of the internal fan the Nap 300 uses. But they do NOT sound the same, and the reason to buy NAP 300 has nothing to do with the small increase in power over Nap 300.

The NAP 300 simply sounds "bigger", the soundstage expands in all 3 dimensions, more clarity, more bass articulation, and more musical, and more speed as there is less distortion caused by the very strong magnetic field from the transformer affecting those very expensive NA009 (for DR) and NA007 (NAP 300 non DR) custom Naim transistors

The NAP 500 takes this concept a LOT further, and then some...

I must say I agree with all these very well informed observations and experiences. I was pushed towards a 500 purely to power my DBL's. I don't think a 300 or 300DR would have made the grade unless active but then you get very near the cost of a 500 with a load more boxes and cables.

it took about 5 second of a well know track to convince me the 500 (nonDR) was the right choice. A lot of people say that a 552 just sound right. I'd use the same description for a 500...it just sounds right. There's nothing you want to add or take away from the voicing or presentation.

With a good source I'm totally awe struck by the musical reality created right in front of me. I've not heard anything else that comes remotely close.

I've also had a 500DR on loan and whilst it's better I don't feel it embarrassed my non DR amp.

A good speaker will just get out of the way and let the upstream components sing at their full potential. It's very difficult to buy a bad speaker nowadays. If the speaker is so coloured or limited that it clouds the performance, you are very unlucky indeed.

How the speakers interact with the room is a different matter. Whereas a 250 added another dimension to this in my lounge, the 300 and 500 were so grippy and controlled that it didn't affect matters. And if anything, the 500 with it's vice like grip, control and seamless transparency, actually cleaned things up somewhat.

You don't need a big and expensive speaker to hear a 552/500 or a 552/300 sing. I ran both into the little Spendor S5e with magnificent results. For the first time I heard what my speakers were really capable of. What they couldn't do was portray a "life size" sound. Hardly surprising for a pair of match sticks. But boy did they sound good.

2x300 DR would beat a single 500 in terms of clarity and attack, but they won't really have the same sense of mass/grip/darkness of the 500. 

Comparing 300DR to 500 Non-DR, I would go with the 500 every day. 

The Strat (Fender) posted:

Might it depend on the choice of speakers?

I think you've got a good point.

Having done the comparison of 300/300DR/500, I'm heading in the direction of Jon's view, but not quite. There was no question that the 300DR was a a big step up on the 300 in all the areas that matter to me but, although I'd have probably have ended up taking the 500 home with me in preference to the 300 if they had been the only options, it wasn't a case of the 500 being clearly better in comparison to the 300DR. Different yes, darker yes, but the sweetness of the 300DR was and is very alluring.

On the day, I was using a very high spec LP12, 552 and Kudos S20s, as I use at home. Had I been using DBLs, I'm sure the decision would have been different. I remember though hearing  a pair of Kudos 88s on the back of the same system only with a 300 and, heck, I'd still have stayed with that too if it had meant I could have avoided the 88s at the time.

About 9 months ago I had my 500 DR'd along with a service for the power supply. As this was a 3/4 week turn around my dealer kindly lent me their 300 DR which was fully run in so I was not without music.

This was a good opportunity to compare and eventually when the  500 came back, see if  nearly £5K was money well spent. I can tell you now it was with absolutely no regrets.

On immediate substitution I was impressed as to how good the 300DR was in a different sort of way from the missing 500. I really liked it. "Faster and brighter" being my first impressions. Then, after a few days I missed my amp being pulled to bits in Salisbury. I still played music but a bit less.

Eventually my amp returned and from switch on I knew something special was in the system. Nine months down the line I feel I don't have enough time to listen. Its that good!  The non DR is a different amplifier from the DR version. Someone posted  on the forum that it should be called the 700 which I can fully agree with.

Its just got better as time passes. There might be more to come even at this stage?  The biggest compliment I can give it, its not "hi-f" sounding. That's with a 552  and B & W 802 Diamonds, SL cables.

Go for it.

Douglas

The DR upgrade on the power amps was far more beneficial than on the pre’s. The 300DR is in a completely different class to the 300. I’m currently running 552DR into 300DR and it’s sublime... I suspect a 500DR would beat it on some dimensions, but the 300DR vs. 500 would be a tough call; I’d go 300DR.

Agreed. 500 owners tend to vehemently disagree with me. But (shrugs)

Over the past 2 years, i went from a 552DR with 300DR to a 500 non-DR (on loaner) back to a 300DR to a 500DR. The 500 non-DR was on loan to me while the 300DR was undergoing some repairs at the factory.

Based on my experience, the 500 non-DR is streets ahead of the 300DR. The 300DR does gain clarity over the 500 but the noise floor and drive is eclipse completely by the 500. The 500 give a feeling of "live" music that the 300DR cannot muster. It's the last icing on the cake that makes the system sound convincing live. The 500 has a warmer balance over the 300DR which may be why the 300DR sounded cleaner. If given the choice, I would take the 500 over the 300DR any day.

Even after my 300DR came back from the factory in a fully optimal state, the supremacy of the 500 was still very evident. I blame my dealer for loaning me the 500 as I couldn't live with a 300DR afterwards and had to upgrade to a 500DR.

Now the 500DR is a totally different beast altogether. It combines the positive aspects of the old 500 and 300DR and the sound is just short of amazing although i have to clarify that the 500DR isn't able to perform at its best until there is a full loom SL in place.

Regardless whether it's the 500 or 500DR, combined with the 552DR, there is no type of music that can faze it. Its inner power and music making abilities are so innate that you really don't want to stop listening.

My experience very closely mirrors this (needs translation): https://translate.google.com.s...html&prev=search

Dave J posted:

The Strat (Fender) posted:

Might it depend on the choice of speakers?

...and, heck, I'd still have stayed with that too if it had meant I could have avoided the 88s at the time.

... if I could have afforded  the 88s at the time. (Bloody spellchecker)

 

Went through same dilema .... went for a good second hand NAP 500 - it was a late 2000 spec .... but still sounded fantastic ......... I then got it dr updated when funds permitted. In some ways the 552 better suits the non dr ... in my opinion the 500 non dr is warmer sounding and the 552 kind of balances it nicely. Enjoy...

A fascinating thread to read, which begs a question. I accept the 500 non DR is better than 2x 300 DR passive biamped, but is a second 300 DR with an existing 300 DR an intermediate step albeit at a cheaper cost than a 500 non DR??