Well Analogue when the Dynas first arrived (2006) the guys from Audio-T brought over some Naca and frankly the results were very much the same.  So that begs the question as to why think again now - we’ll simply to ensure everything is optimised as far as possible   

As opposed to speaker choice in my room etc the Kudos are a far richer musical experience.   

Regards,

Lindsay

I respect your choices Lindsay, and this is all subjective anyway.

But I cannot agree with NACA5 is a harsh sounding cable, especially with Dynaudio, they sound lovely together.

I've now tried NACA 5 with 3 pairs of Dyna, PMC, Sonus Faber, B&W, etc... if there is any harshness it isn't because of NACA5.

I run 272/xpsdr/250dr/ NAca5 and Super 20a and in my room they are just wonderful at musical replay. Addictive in some way, and the best sounding system I’ve had and there have been some. S20 are very open, clear and insightsful, but not forced or fatiguing in any way, so ditching S20 based on a cablethread seems very simple to me. I will audition some cables also for optimizing, but the speaakers and system will stay. 

Stover

Yeas but they’re asking 4250 gbp for 2 drivers and rather plain looks

and then reputation for being bright

My learning after some years is you should base your opinion on what you hear and don’t on what you read (Been there, done that). Several good speakers have got that charscteristic and I guess it’ts due to room, system, preferences and such. 

S

Analog - I'm not sure how you can simply dismiss things without hearing them. So what if there are only two drivers. It's easy to fill huge speakers with four or five massive drivers with shiny rings round them and lots of silly writing, so that they look impressive. It's like saying 'I don't like foreign food' without even trying it. £4,250 for a well made, discreet looking speaker that sounds very good seems like a good deal to me. And then saying 'I'm not listening to Chord cables because I'm a Naim and Vertere man' is just silly. I've used Chord Odyssey and didn't like it, preferring A5, but at least I tried it before dismissing it out of hand. Why do you feel the need to denigrate others' choices? It's weird. 

analogmusic posted:

Yeas but they’re asking 4250 gbp for 2 drivers and rather plain looks

and then reputation for being bright

Rob or Touraj not fans of the S20 ?

some decisions are made by numbers

Lindsay (rightfully so) says SL cables are not for him as they are too expensive (and there is no need for him to try them)

Rob W just bought B&W 803D3 speakers, but hey ho, been there done that (B&W).

I remember when Lindsay swapped out his Dynaudio for the S20 which seemed incredible to me at the time but maybe Dynaudio would have sounded better with Naca5 or SL.

Not to me it didn't, I had the privilege of listening to both pairs of speakers in Lindsay lounge and the Kudos were clearly better suited to his room.

In my experience the Naca5 have been very good speaker cables with clear limitations. But at that price point I think they are difficult to beat in a Naim based setup. For the SL it's a huge step up in quality of sound and I a, very happy with my full SL setup. However the VFM is by far not as good as the NACA5. Between the NACA5 and the SL price point a lot of good alternatives exist. If one is ok to pay the SL price point I would not deviate to another brand, as you will get great quality of sound while containing the Naim carateristics. 

Polarbear posted:

I remember when Lindsay swapped out his Dynaudio for the S20 which seemed incredible to me at the time but maybe Dynaudio would have sounded better with Naca5 or SL.

 

Not to me it didn't, I had the privilege of listening to both pairs of speakers in Lindsay lounge and the Kudos were clearly better suited to his room.

Hi Polarbear.

to be sure, I am not clear if NACA5 speaker cables used when comparing Dynaudio to the Kudos?

Polarbear posted:

I remember when Lindsay swapped out his Dynaudio for the S20 which seemed incredible to me at the time but maybe Dynaudio would have sounded better with Naca5 or SL.

 

Not to me it didn't, I had the privilege of listening to both pairs of speakers in Lindsay lounge and the Kudos were clearly better suited to his room.

If I remember, Strat had Contour 1.8 speakers, if that is the case, they are about a twenty five old design, so I would hope the newer speakers would sound better in his room.

I know everybody hears things differently, so I will keep my thoughts about Kudos speakers to myself, but suffice to say, the ones I have heard on demos couldn't quite compete with the Dynaudio speakers they were compared to.

Bert Schurink posted:

In my experience the Naca5 have been very good speaker cables with clear limitations. But at that price point I think they are difficult to beat in a Naim based setup. For the SL it's a huge step up in quality of sound and I a, very happy with my full SL setup. However the VFM is by far not as good as the NACA5. Between the NACA5 and the SL price point a lot of good alternatives exist. If one is ok to pay the SL price point I would not deviate to another brand, as you will get great quality of sound while containing the Naim carateristics. 

Once Again, I agree!

However, I have no hands on experience.

But this gentleman, knows a little:

CHRIS WESTTRADE MEMBER

12/14/12 9:40 AM

Originally Posted by Mike-B:

Originally Posted by Ron Toolsie:

Yes, none of the Naim amps have added output inductance that many other amps do...usually in the form of some sort of Zobel network. 

All amps have a Zobel circuit - a small capacitor (aprx 100nF) with a series resistor (aprx 10R) in shunt across the output stage. 

The series inductor that Naim do not have is not part of a classic Zobel.

This is typically what the differences are

 

Mike B.

Nice Diagram.

 

"I like to look at it this way... in comparison with non-naim gear with universal (compromised) "any speaker wire and length" amp output design.

Effectively, the Naim amp circuit  "output terminations" are moved 3.5 meters closer to the speaker by this method. In an average set up with around 12 feet of wire the Naim system will work as if the speakers were directly connected to the amp with no speaker wire!

How cool is that? 

People spend thousands on wires with the aim of making them have no impact on the sound. As if to make them sonically vanish. Julian used his noodle and made it happen from day one of Naim amp design by integrating a well defined and inexpensive wire into the amps circuit! Neatly removing speaker wires as an sonically indeterminate after thought ... 

Using different spec wires or using shorter lengths on a Naim amp, is like opening a non-naim amp and experimenting with changing or removing circuit components. Not recommended!

Chris

AV Options "

Personally I'm still using Linn K-20, which from what I read, was Naca A4.

Analogmusic,

Sorry but I must disagree with this contribution:

"and the second thing I've concluded is that I am not going to try Chord speaker cables either, I am a Naim and Vertere cable man.

Vertere state their objective is not to change the sound in any way, which is very important if one wants to preserve the rhythmic ability of their expensive Naim electronics.

I just can't understand why anyone would want to compromise on that ability. "

Vertere state their objective...  I'm every cable manufacturing company will have a marketing department or person responsible for marketing speil.  And that's fine.  You have to present your product to the world somehow and we all need to aspire to something.  It does not make aspirations fact.  Do you imagine there are cable companies whose intention is to impose their own rhythm upon music played through them?  I certainly hope not.  And I think you are saying the same in the last quoted sentence above.  Hence why on earth are you dismissing other products on the basis of marketing text?

In my listening room at home I found NACA5 too bright and harsh - no doubt there are issues with my room's physical properties and perhaps the interaction of the NBL's with that room did not help but I perceived an altogether more pleasant listening experience using Chord cables.  That does not mean in any way that I would be opposed to listening to a set of Naim's new cables, just because another of their products didn't work for me.

Every product can be regarded as the best until they are replaced by a better product - please let's not try to stipulate who that manufacturer must be!

Peter

analogmusic posted:

Polarbear posted:

I remember when Lindsay swapped out his Dynaudio for the S20 which seemed incredible to me at the time but maybe Dynaudio would have sounded better with Naca5 or SL.

 

Not to me it didn't, I had the privilege of listening to both pairs of speakers in Lindsay lounge and the Kudos were clearly better suited to his room.

Hi Polarbear.

to be sure, I am not clear if NACA5 speaker cables used when comparing Dynaudio to the Kudos?

I seem to recall, Lindsay had his chord cable at the time but even so, the Kudos were better suited to his room.

Who in this argument has carpet or is running A5 off the floor? In my living room it runs over some nice thick Axminster but my system can sound a touch brighter when the hoover has pushed the speaker cable so it touches the wall, Can we correlate hard floors and A5 making the speakers sound brighter?

Analogue - you seemed to have turned this onto your obsession with Dynaudio speakers. 

Not at all.  Let me explain, your transition to Kudos was interesting for me as you moved away from Dynaudio.

Just saying I was a bit tempted to follow your footsteps and buy a pre-loved S20 from Ebay (I will not pay full price for S20), but luckily I read this thread and realized that if NACA5 and S20 don't work, it isn't for me. There have been a few comments over the years that Kudos tweeters are on the hot side.

I dislike very much a departure from Neutrality in my hi-fi. Only If the recording it bright, that is the only time I want to hear it. 

I confirmed this when I heard Naim QB and Muso, they have about the same tonal balance and neutrality as many speaker manufacturers who don't want spice things up. As I said I myself loved B&W until my dealer pointed out how bright it sounded and I make the change to a more neutral speaker philosophy.

People look for different things from their hi-fi, but me personally, when I play a Metallica album, I want to feel that energy that I heard at their live shows on my Naim hi-fi.

NACA5 allows this to come through so it's very important for me to have cables (and speakers) that preserve the musical energy and excitement.

Anyone who's seen Metallica live knows there is no refinement or delicacy in the sound, only pure energy metal rock music !!

 Naim tune all their amps before statement with NACA5, and before Superlumina, there simply wasn't any other speaker cable that Naim made. I think one has to stop and think why was the case and understand the Naim intended performance, and why Naim amplifiers in fact was created to begin with.

The reasons are exactly what I said above, JV wanted to create an amplifier that captured the energy of a live rock show.

This is verifiable on the Andrew Everard review of the NAP 250 DR.

Since this is a cable thread, I wanted to put the other side of the story in defense of NACA5.

Regarding the perception that Kudos have a hot top end- not in my room. I had Dynaudio Contour3.4S standpoints prior to my Kudos, both ran through NACA5. In my room the Dyn's definitely had the brighter presentation. The Kudos tweeter is more transparent with greater extension imo. I really think the room plays a huge role here.......

NACA5 is a great cable unless you start looking into mega -buck substitutes and even at that price point the NACA5 holds its' own .

ATB,

Mark

analogmusic posted:

 

Anyone who's seen Metallica live knows there is no refinement or delicacy in the sound, only pure energy metal rock music !!

 Naim tune all their amps before statement with NACA5, and before Superlumina, there simply wasn't any other speaker cable that Naim made. I think one has to stop and think why was the case and understand the Naim intended performance, and why Naim amplifiers in fact was created to begin with.

The reasons are exactly what I said above, JV wanted to create an amplifier that captured the energy of a live rock show.

This is verifiable on the Andrew Everard review of the NAP 250 DR.

Since this is a cable thread, I wanted to put the other side of the story in defense of NACA5.

If you want to hear the raw edge and sheer power of Metallica Analogmusic you should put Vertere Hand built cables into your system and then you will experience what its like to be in the front row in your living room 

The Strat (Fender) posted:

Guys,

You will know from my other thread where I initially contemplated trying some Chord Signature Reference speaker cable between my NAP 250DR and Kudos S20s following what I thought was encouraging experiments with Signature TA inter-connects.  Well it hasn't turned out as expected but I've drawn a conclusion.......

So my conclusion is that by all means {experiment} but when wiring up Naim electronics Naim inter-connects will in all likelihood work best. However, for speakers the outcome is most likely to be speaker dependent and with another brand Naca could well have yielded a different result but with my S20s Odyssey was by far the better solution.

Regards,

Lindsay

 

Chris West, 2012, before the Statement Era!

People spend thousands on wires with the aim of making them have no impact on the sound. As if to make them sonically vanish. Julian used his noodle and made it happen from day one of Naim amp design by integrating a well defined and inexpensive wire into the amps circuit! Neatly removing speaker wires as an sonically indeterminate after thought ... 

analogmusic posted:

few comments over the years that Kudos tweeters are on the hot side.

I dislike very much a departure from Neutrality in my hi-fi. Only If the recording it bright, that is the only time I want to hear it. 

Snip

 Naim tune all their amps before statement with NACA5, and before Superlumina, there simply wasn't any other speaker cable that Naim made. I think one has to stop and think why was the case and understand the Naim intended performance, and why Naim amplifiers in fact was created to begin with.

So you need to tune an amp in a special way to preserve neutrality or make it? Hopefully naim will make a third set of speaker cables so we can avoid the there is only one true speaker wire fundamentalist statements on the forum.

Claus

analogmusic posted:

Not at all.  Let me explain, your transition to Kudos was interesting for me as you moved away from Dynaudio.

Just saying I was a bit tempted to follow your footsteps and buy a pre-loved S20 from Ebay (I will not pay full price for S20), but luckily I read this thread and realized that if NACA5 and S20 don't work, it isn't for me. There have been a few comments over the years that Kudos tweeters are on the hot side.

I dislike very much a departure from Neutrality in my hi-fi. Only If the recording it bright, that is the only time I want to hear it. 

I confirmed this when I heard Naim QB and Muso, they have about the same tonal balance and neutrality as many speaker manufacturers who don't want spice things up. As I said I myself loved B&W until my dealer pointed out how bright it sounded and I make the change to a more neutral speaker philosophy.

People look for different things from their hi-fi, but me personally, when I play a Metallica album, I want to feel that energy that I heard at their live shows on my Naim hi-fi.

NACA5 allows this to come through so it's very important for me to have cables (and speakers) that preserve the musical energy and excitement.

Anyone who's seen Metallica live knows there is no refinement or delicacy in the sound, only pure energy metal rock music !!

 Naim tune all their amps before statement with NACA5, and before Superlumina, there simply wasn't any other speaker cable that Naim made. I think one has to stop and think why was the case and understand the Naim intended performance, and why Naim amplifiers in fact was created to begin with.

The reasons are exactly what I said above, JV wanted to create an amplifier that captured the energy of a live rock show.

This is verifiable on the Andrew Everard review of the NAP 250 DR.

Since this is a cable thread, I wanted to put the other side of the story in defense of NACA5.

‘I loved B&W until my dealer pointed out how bright it sounded....’

Surely you don’t give a toss what your dealer thinks? That’s just ridiculous. If I told you that Vertere cables were dreadful things, would you stop promoting them. What if a dealer told you that Dynaudio speakers were too dull sounding? What if a chef said that you should eat tagliatelle instead of spaghetti? Or a tailor said you should only wear double breasted suits?

The Strat (Fender) posted:

In turn this had me thinking that if Naim cables really worked best with Naim electronics, and of course that's an obvious conclusion, then I should re-address Naca as an alternative to my long serving (prior to my Naim days) Chord Odyssey.  So a trial (fully run-in) set arrived 3 nights ago and was installed.      The outcome was not as expected at all.  Certainly, the Naca was more dynamic and some might interpret as more Naim like, but after a short while I was turning the sound down to the point I was actually finding electric guitars and high female vocals almost unbearable, in fact aggressive but when we put back the Odyssey it was just sublime.

 

How strange, posted this yesterday:

I'm very much an impulsive purchaser and will often buy if something's in stock.

When I visited my dealer to look at the Uniti range in August they only had the Atom, which seemed to scratch an itch I'd had for a few years for primarily a streaming device to complement my classic Naim gear in another room.  

I was quite impressed with the Atom but using it with some old Epos ES14's I got the impression it was struggling at lower levels.  My Atom turned out to be faulty with a display issue (?anything else faulty you'd have to ask) and it got RMA'd and I got a dealer refund as by now I was wondering about the Nova or other options to use with older Naim kit.

A couple of weeks ago I A/B'd the Atom and Nova with the ES14's and the Atom while very musical sounding and warm was completely different in presentation to the Nova which had considerably more detail and better soundstage as you'd expect given the price hike and better internal power amp.  The Atom demoed though sounded much more in control of the speakers than the one RMA'd but hard to say to what extent different room characteristics were at play.

On the Nova I was really hearing several things in a new way, particularly piano where extra notes or rhythmic nuances were surprising on stuff I'd listened to for decades on vinyl.  Despite the significantly better detail however, female vocals on the Nova seemed far too forward and 'in your face' which on some material was fatiguing. Certain percussive backings and driving guitar rhythms also seemed too aggressive on the Nova, again fatiguing.  We then at my suggestion tried a different cable to NAC-A5 and suddenly the Nova/ES14 combination started to sing with every music type tried.  I know the ES14's are love 'em/hate 'em type speakers but when you find a synergistic combination they are wonderful (not discounting new speakers either as the Uniti Range has re-kindled my hi-fi interest after many years).