Chord DACs

I have a go-to cd for checking new bits of kit....  Derrin Nauendorf - Live At The Boardwalk... and it sounds lovely even at the low volumes I now have the system as it's getting a bit late

Innocent Bystander posted:

French Rooster posted:

nina is exited by her new naim dac......i understand very well.  She certainly has forgotten your question....

I' be worried if Nina were to be exited by her DAC...

 

Sorry,  couldn't resist - I know English isn't your first language, and truly respect that your English is infinitely better than my French. I know you did of course mean she is excited (exit is to leave).

in french language “ excited’ ( excitée in french) has 2 meanings:  very enthusiastic and sexually excited. I was of course meaning enthusiastic, very enthusiastic, with no other ideas on her mind that the pleasure to discover her new dac.   So you can’t say “ excited” in english?

( not exited, i forgot the c)

French Rooster posted:

Innocent Bystander posted:

French Rooster posted:

nina is exited by her new naim dac......i understand very well.  She certainly has forgotten your question....

I' be worried if Nina were to be exited by her DAC...

 

Sorry,  couldn't resist - I know English isn't your first language, and truly respect that your English is infinitely better than my French. I know you did of course mean she is excited (exit is to leave).

in french language “ excited’ ( excitée in french) has 2 meanings:  very enthusiastic and sexually excited. I was of course meaning enthusiastic, very enthusiastic, with no other ideas on her mind that the pleasure to discover her new dac.   So you can’t say “ excited” in english?

( not exited, i forgot the c)

Yes you can say excited, same meanings as French - provided it has the 'c'.

Yes of course you can, excited means enthused and enthusiastically expectant about something... and in engineering as well as in the sexual context, means aroused or lifted to a non passive state.

French Rooster posted:

Innocent Bystander posted:

French Rooster posted:

nina is exited by her new naim dac......i understand very well.  She certainly has forgotten your question....

I' be worried if Nina were to be exited by her DAC...

 

Sorry,  couldn't resist - I know English isn't your first language, and truly respect that your English is infinitely better than my French. I know you did of course mean she is excited (exit is to leave).

in french language “ excited’ ( excitée in french) has 2 meanings:  very enthusiastic and sexually excited. I was of course meaning enthusiastic, very enthusiastic, with no other ideas on her mind that the pleasure to discover her new dac.   So you can’t say “ excited” in english?

( not exited, i forgot the c)

Hi French Rooster.....  absolutely I am "enthusiastic" about the Naim Dac

Nina posted:

French Rooster posted:

Innocent Bystander posted:

French Rooster posted:

nina is exited by her new naim dac......i understand very well.  She certainly has forgotten your question....

I' be worried if Nina were to be exited by her DAC...

 

Sorry,  couldn't resist - I know English isn't your first language, and truly respect that your English is infinitely better than my French. I know you did of course mean she is excited (exit is to leave).

in french language “ excited’ ( excitée in french) has 2 meanings:  very enthusiastic and sexually excited. I was of course meaning enthusiastic, very enthusiastic, with no other ideas on her mind that the pleasure to discover her new dac.   So you can’t say “ excited” in english?

( not exited, i forgot the c)

Hi French Rooster.....  absolutely I am "enthusiastic" about the Naim Dac

i am very pleased you enjoy it. It is a true and classic naim sound, with a character of its own. I am certain that chord hugo is very good for its price,  but it is not the only good dac there. Too many people were talking about the hugo. I am glad that naim dac returns on the scene!

French Rooster posted:

i am very pleased you enjoy it. It is a true and classic naim sound, with a character of its own. I am certain that chord hugo is very good for its price,  but it is not the only good dac there. Too many people were talking about the hugo. I am glad that naim dac returns on the scene!

Hi French Rooster... do you also own the Naim Dac ?

Richard Dane posted:

No, the DACs are different. The CD5xs uses the BB PCM1704K DAC chips with the PDM200 filter, whereas the ND5xs uses the BB PCM1791A DAC chipset with Naim's own DSP filter.

Richard maybe you could expand on that..

If the CD5XS uses the Burr Brown PCM1704K chips and PDM200 filter, what does the Naim Dac use instead ?

Thanks

Nina posted:

French Rooster posted:

i am very pleased you enjoy it. It is a true and classic naim sound, with a character of its own. I am certain that chord hugo is very good for its price,  but it is not the only good dac there. Too many people were talking about the hugo. I am glad that naim dac returns on the scene!

Hi French Rooster... do you also own the Naim Dac ?

i have owned cd5x, cdx2, cdx2/xps2 and now nds/555 dr.  I have heard the ndac and could have bought it. But i found a very good occasion on the nds , one year old and quite new, a very good price.    The prat, urgency, life, sound with body....are on all naim players. Perhaps even a little more on the cdx2 and ndac....

French Rooster posted:

Nina posted:

French Rooster posted:

i am very pleased you enjoy it. It is a true and classic naim sound, with a character of its own. I am certain that chord hugo is very good for its price,  but it is not the only good dac there. Too many people were talking about the hugo. I am glad that naim dac returns on the scene!

Hi French Rooster... do you also own the Naim Dac ?

i have owned cd5x, cdx2, cdx2/xps2 and now nds/555 dr.  I have heard the ndac and could have bought it. But i found a very good occasion on the nds , one year old and quite new, a very good price.    The prat, urgency, life, sound with body....are on all naim players. Perhaps even a little more on the cdx2 and ndac....

I am glad that you "could have bought" the Naim Dac.  I am finding it very good indeed

I agree with you about the "prat, urgency, life, sound with body" with Naim players and definitely with the Dac

I just did the firmware upgrade successfully but don't know if I can hear any difference so maybe the firmware was already up-to-date 

Maybe the firmware was not up-to-date as the Dac now has a little more smoothness to it's sound...

Nina posted:

Richard Dane posted:

No, the DACs are different. The CD5xs uses the BB PCM1704K DAC chips with the PDM200 filter, whereas the ND5xs uses the BB PCM1791A DAC chipset with Naim's own DSP filter.

Richard maybe you could expand on that..

If the CD5XS uses the Burr Brown PCM1704K chips and PDM200 filter, what does the Naim Dac use instead ?

Thanks

 

Nina, the Naim DAC uses selected BB PCM1704K DAC chips with Naim's own DSP filter. It also has a very good discrete analogue output stage. Look at pictures of the innards - really lovely! It may come in 5 series casework but the innards are reference quality.

French Rooster posted:

Nina posted:

French Rooster posted:

Innocent Bystander posted:

French Rooster posted:

nina is exited by her new naim dac......i understand very well.  She certainly has forgotten your question....

I' be worried if Nina were to be exited by her DAC...

 

Sorry,  couldn't resist - I know English isn't your first language, and truly respect that your English is infinitely better than my French. I know you did of course mean she is excited (exit is to leave).

in french language “ excited’ ( excitée in french) has 2 meanings:  very enthusiastic and sexually excited. I was of course meaning enthusiastic, very enthusiastic, with no other ideas on her mind that the pleasure to discover her new dac.   So you can’t say “ excited” in english?

( not exited, i forgot the c)

Hi French Rooster.....  absolutely I am "enthusiastic" about the Naim Dac

i am very pleased you enjoy it. It is a true and classic naim sound, with a character of its own. I am certain that chord hugo is very good for its price,  but it is not the only good dac there. Too many people were talking about the hugo. I am glad that naim dac returns on the scene!

Indeed, there are quite a few very good DACs out there, but Chord and Naim are not the only options.

I use the Hugo in one of my systems and it is very good indeed, but good though it is, it isn't as good (to my ears) as the integrated DAC in the streamer I use in my main system.

I can understand why owners of predominately Naim hi-fi equipment are likely to gravitate towards the nDac or NDX/NDS. However, for others, Chord is not the only viable competitor out there if you care to look and listen.

Innocent Bystander posted:

Eloise posted:

joe9407 posted:

M37 posted:

Anyone that can recommend a good transport?

there are lots of interesting choices out there, some quite inexpensive relative to Naim gear. i have a Sonore microRendu that seems to get the job done. i use it with a Hugo 2 and well-made, but otherwise bog-standard, cables.

the computer audio crowd also seems to break out the "plastic pants" for the SOtM sMS-200 (no, the shift key on my laptop is not broken), 

I'm curious is any of the Chord DAC users do any kind of upsampling on PCs?

Given that the Chord Blu 2 upsamples to (iirc) 705.6ks/s (samples per second); has anyone tried similar upsampling using (for example) HQ Player and then feeding the DAC via USB (which supports such high sample rates) perhaps utilising the Sonore of SOtM or an alternative SBC as an intermediate NAA interface.

Just thinking out loud really... a geeky alternative to the Chord Blu 2.

I use Audirvana as my renderer, and it does offer the option to upsample, to do which the Mac Mini it runs on has ample processing power. I haven't tried it yet, but funnily enough it is next on my list of comparisons to make (some other, unrelated comparisons posted on a different thread re triamping), with an intent to do that some time soon.

Interestingly I just came across this quote from Chord's DAC designer:

Oh dear. Do NOT use your computer to up-sample or change the data when you use one of my DAC's.

All competent DAC's up-sample and filter internally; the issue is how well that filtering is done, in terms of how well the timing of transients is reconstructed from the original analogue. Computers are poor devices to use for manipulating data in real time as they are concurrent serial devices - everything has to go through one to 8 processors in sequence. With hardware and FPGA's you do not need to do that, you can do thousands of operations in parallel. Dave has 166 DSP cores with each core being able to do one FIR tap in one clock cycle. That is incredibly powerful processing power way more powerful than a PC.

But its not just about raw processing power but the algorithm for the filter. The WTA filter is the only algorithm that has been designed to reduce timing of transients errors, and the only one that has been optimised by thousands of listening tests.

I now have a better idea on the Naim Dac soundwise

The Hugo sounds different depending on which cd I play, what I mean is on some cd's it sounds very good but on others not so good, I can't quite explain it but I don't find the Hugo universally 'good' with all cd's.  The sound is very variable

The Naim Dac seems more even-handed and by that I mean it sounds good with more cd's and not so variable

Does that make any sense at all to anyone ? 

Not my experience, as I found Hugo great on everything - however I didn't compare with nDAC, just with ND5XS' DAC.

Sounds like you'll either keep nDAC ...or both!

Happy listening?

Is there anyone using the Naim DC1 cable ?  if so is it any good ?  Thinking about it from CD5XS to Dac, so a BNC to RCA version

Yes, Nina. I'm using a DC1. The Naim preferred configuration is BNC to BNC, though.  The BNC input on the nDAC is meant to be superior to the RCA.

MDS posted:

Yes, Nina. I'm using a DC1. The Naim preferred configuration is BNC to BNC, though.  The BNC input on the nDAC is meant to be superior to the RCA.

Oh ok thanks MDS but I was under the impression that the RCA input on the Dac was supposed to be superior to BNC but I don't know where I heard that

Is it an ok cable though?

Yes, Nina. I chose the DC1 against a more expensive Kimber one I had. In my view it's the best (unless and until Naim do an SL version).  And my dealer was very clear that the BNC input on the nDAC is the better one. 

Nina, the DC1 is not a universally loved cable, so I would listen carefully to it, and maybe some alternatives, before you commit to it, especially at £300 for a new one. Either ask a dealer for a demo one to try, or look for a used one you can sell on. 

Having said that, I haven’t heard it into an NDAC myself, so maybe you will like it. I believe some forum members have found good results from some quite inexpensive alternative SPDIF cables. 

Nina posted:

Is there anyone using the Naim DC1 cable ?  if so is it any good ?  Thinking about it from CD5XS to Dac, so a BNC to RCA version

some prefer dc1 and other prefer chord bnc to bnc cables.....the chord gave more “analog” sound, with more fluidity and true tone colors.  ( chord epic). or chord indigo on used market.

Personally i prefer chord cables sound.  

I recently swapped out a n-DAC and 555PS for a CH2 and have been enjoying music much more and saved some money I know that the Hugo is designed as a portable unit but find the small footprint with an Auralic Aries mini, LPS and iFi USB 3.0 on a single shelf works well for me. Using either the Lightning server or Roon I have been having a lot more musical fun. The reduction in box space and increase in foot-tapping is a bonus and when I need an extra DAC input (the admitted weakness of the Hugo over the n-DAC) then I can always press a Hugo 1 or Mojo into service.

Nina posted:

I now have a better idea on the Naim Dac soundwise

The Hugo sounds different depending on which cd I play, what I mean is on some cd's it sounds very good but on others not so good, I can't quite explain it but I don't find the Hugo universally 'good' with all cd's.  The sound is very variable

The Naim Dac seems more even-handed and by that I mean it sounds good with more cd's and not so variable

Does that make any sense at all to anyone ? 

Yes.

I use a Mojo, I find, when I initially start listening to it, I think, this sounds great, very smooth detailed but by the third or fourth track I’m only thinking, this sounds good. It handles simple music fine, but struggles when the rhythms get a bit complex.

I’ve owned a Ndac, this has plenty of prat, wide soundstage and is rhythmic. Sounded excellent on most CD’s I used it with, but a bit forward and bright with others.

I also owned a CDS2, this is a combination of the mojo and Ndac. Smooth, detailed and analogue sounding, but with the prat and rhythmic qualities. I spent 9 months comparing the CDS2/XPS with the Ndac/XPS, I and everybody who heard them said they preferred the CDS2. Every CD I played in it sounded superb.

If you’re not planning on using a transport with the DAC and only using CD, why not try a CDS3/XPS.

I can guarantee you’ll selling the Dacs and CD transport.

Hi Nina

I have followed a few of your threads with great interest because your journey has been very similar to mine. Last year I bought an ex-dem SN2 and knew I could do better than pairing it with my aging Arcam cd player. Like you, I enjoy the act of putting on a cd and losing myself in the music.

Fatcat's suggestion of secondhand CDS3/XPS is seriously worth thinking about as someone who loves cds.

After getting my SN2 I tried using my Arcam cd player as a transport adding a Chord 2Qute and I also tried a SimAudio Moon Neo 260 transport/DAC amongst others. It is very good and the soundstage and separation was amazing but something wasn't quite right. A smaller number of well produced tracks sounded just incredible but other tracks didn't sound as good as the Arcam and SN2.  I played about with various cables and DACs and was aware that the cost of these alternatives was taking me towards Naim cd player prices.

Out of curiosity I asked my dealer if I could borrow a CDX2... In comparison, the CDX2 could not match the soundstage (not as big) and the detail was not quite as clear but it just sounded better, more musical, you weren't listening to admire the hifi system, you were drawn into the music. (And that's coming from someone who loves to hear all the subtle detail in a song). There is a definite synergy that the CDX2 and the SN2 have together which makes me want to  listen and listen and listen.  Making me late for work, late going to bed because I can't stop listening to it.

In 2017 buying an integrated amp and cd player seems like madness to most people now everyone is streaming and with the advent of the new Naim one-box solutions. But I just love putting on and listening to a cd and I want a system that will do me for the next 20+ years at least, if not the rest of my life.  I am sure the SN2 will outlast me but cd players fail after time - someone on here called a CDP dinosaur technology... BUT I deliberately decided to buy a CDX2 because it sounds wonderful with the SN2 and I hope that it can be serviced long in the future. I am absolutely convinced that there will be a cd revival in 10,15,20 years by the way.

So reading about each trial and change you make just makes me want to encourage you to keep it simple and try out the CDX2 with your SN2. You've got the TQ cables which are also great with this combination.  

I just want 2 boxes (and cannot afford any more!!).  If you are ok with more boxes I'm guessing that Fatcat's suggestion of a CDS3/XPS would give you more enjoyment than trying to improve things with transports and DACs. Failing that, give a CDX2 a shot because your SN2 deserves it.

Whatever choice you go for, I hope it brings you a loads of enjoyment.