Naim streaming app - is it still problematic?

Sonus and the two offerings from Linn spring most readily to mind. The app that Linn were phasing out a couple of years back was in better shape than the relatively new one from Naim. The Naim app is OK. It gets the job done.

Other than the recent room discovery issues, the Naim app has always worked well for me (broadband internet, updated router, all hard-wired except for iPad).

That said, I have had occasional issues with Tidal. Last spring, I had frequent stalls and drops. Read on another forum that Tidal was doing major library maintenance. It all settled down within a week with no changes on my end, and so I just listened to UPNP and internet radio instead. Just last night I had a repeatable stall with a single song on a single album. No other Tidal albums or services seemed to be effected. Data corruption perhaps?

I have empathy for those experiencing issues. My only advice is to work methodically through the problem-solving process, otherwise frustration will occur.

If you do buy that NDS your dealer will get a large enough markup to cover the cost of installing it in your home and getting it working to your satisfaction.

Unfortunately some dealers are lazy or stupid. My nearest dealer is both so I use one much further away. People on this forum with problems are the unwitting victims of such tossers. 

 This forum then becomes a backup to Naim support. For some reason some people come here rather than Naim and that is why there are so many problems aired on here. If the app was faulty it would not work for anybody.

Pev posted:

If the app was faulty it would not work for anybody.

There are so many reactions to this statement possible, but I just cannot choose the funniest one. 

@Pev: no. Just no. 

Streamz posted:

And off course there are still some other issues. Here's the search menu. Strange layout and color scheme. K3 search, I blame my daughter for that.  

Searching for London Grammar. Yeah, why not. 

 

The interface isn't that usefull. Apparently Naim feels you have to know all album covers. And artists. Because there's no text. 

But luckely, the search is stored. O, wait, it's not. The app only wants to remember winterlounge and K3. Note also the recent search box changed a bit. Why? Who knows.

But I guess the app is fine and I need to change my network, my device, my ISP, my utilities provider and possibly my house and family too.

 

Joking aside, no, the app is not without faults. Get a dealer to loan you a streamer, set it up in your house as it should and see if you like the results. 

 

[@mention:30428924476173502] just to let you know, I reported this issue back to Naim HQ, they have replicated it, and have now logged it, to be fixed in a future update. 

Chris

I've been on both sides of this.  When using a UnitiServe as my home music server, I did have issues.  I had to reboot it far too often.  I sold it off in favor of a Synology nas and that issue went away.  That was back in the n-Stream days before the current app. And now, what, about 3 years ago. Obviously this was not an APP issue, but a SERVER issue.

Then shortly after that, with the Synology nas running Minimserver, I had a terrible dropout problem. Happened to both of my players (NDS and Qute). The devices screens showed that the buffers were emptying out.  Phil Harris had recommended stripping down my home network to only absolutely essential bits and then adding stuff back on to try to identify an offending piece. Voila, my Apple Time Capsule was causing this. I did a 'reset to factory settings' on it and the issue resolved.  This was not an APP issue either.

So for a good 3 years now I have had zero issues with playing music on the NDS or the Qute with the Naim App. (I am a beta tester and it's always a beta version I'm using, except for those times when there is no active beta and so then I use the regular release.)

My home network is pretty standard, other than that I refuse to use the ISP providers router for wifi. I use that same Apple Time Capsule (it's also an Airport Extreme) for wifi, and everything else is hardwired (cat 5) to a big 16 port switch that in turn is plugged into the ISP's router.  Everything on my home network runs perfectly - even Amazon Fire thingy over wifi.  

Back when I had the UnitiServe I did get feedback from my wife. "I don't know how much you spent on this stuff, but it doesn't work."  That was fair . . . 

(Now a days I use a QNAP nas as my server, and the Synology as the backup for the QNAP, because I prefer the interface from Asset server.)

i use nds and unitserve, in upnp mode, with naim app, since one year and a half: no problem. Sometimes, perhaps once a month, i loose the connection, the app doesn’t work : i restart the nds and 3 minutes after all is fine.

strange my ns01 is very stable. Unless I power down the system for other reasons I very seldom has to power down the userve, and no connection issues at all, and it has worked that way since 2011. In many ways the old servers work much less problematic than the Core does at least for some core users.

Claus  

I have a Core and I still have a Unitiserve too, because I'm too bone idle to sell it. Every couple of months or so I notice the US has vanished in the app but rebooting the US always resolves that. I never have to restart the Core. If it's not showing in the app, then killing and restarting the app always fixes that. But it was mainly 5.7.x that used to lose the Core. App version 5.6 was OK and 5.8.2 seems to be ok too.

best

David

Over the years I've used SONOS, Cambridge Audio and more recently Naim apps the SONOS was without doubt the easiest to set up and worked flawlessly including a Play 5 via wireless.

The Cambridge Audio app was OK this app had the best Internet Radio station search facility.

I purchased a NDX a couple of years ago and was using Android it worked OK nothing special after adding a Core earlier this year I encountered problems with the Android app running the Core the app would run my Synology fine without any problems so this eliminated any network problems.

My dealer suggested I try an IPad I was a bit sceptical about this but as you have a 14 day return period with the Apple store I bit the bullet and purchased an IPad.

Running the IOS device totally eliminated the problem running the Core in my system plus gave me editing facilities the IOS app is much quicker than the Android app.

I had been in contact with Naim during the time I was having problems and after several e mails and telephone conversations they concurred that they had replicated the same problem and would be working on a fix so sometimes it can be the app and not the network and as Naim explained there are so many variables that problems can occur that they have never experienced during testing. 

Just to say the  service given from both my dealer and Naim during these problems was absolutely brilliant the full 5 stars a very happy bunny indeed.

I get the impression that Android has always been the poor relations with the Naim App.  No problem for me as we all have iPhones at home.

ChrisH posted:

[@mention:30428924476173502] just to let you know, I reported this issue back to Naim HQ, they have replicated it, and have now logged it, to be fixed in a future update. 

Chris

ChrisH, good to hear, thanks. 

Bart posted:

My home network is pretty standard, other than that I refuse to use the ISP providers router for wifi. I use that same Apple Time Capsule (it's also an Airport Extreme) for wifi, and everything else is hardwired (cat 5) to a big 16 port switch that in turn is plugged into the ISP's router.  Everything on my home network runs perfectly - even Amazon Fire thingy over wifi. 

You make an important comment here, Bart. I think that many of the app issues of people on this forum would be gone if they have the same setup: ISP router / modem for internet connection and then connected to another router for wifi.

Personally, I've done so too for security purposes. The ISP router is completely hardened - as restrictive as possible - and on the internal wifi router everything is open.

No issues on network in my house anymore.

Ardbeg10y posted:

Bart posted:

My home network is pretty standard, other than that I refuse to use the ISP providers router for wifi. I use that same Apple Time Capsule (it's also an Airport Extreme) for wifi, and everything else is hardwired (cat 5) to a big 16 port switch that in turn is plugged into the ISP's router.  Everything on my home network runs perfectly - even Amazon Fire thingy over wifi. 

You make an important comment here, Bart. I think that many of the app issues of people on this forum would be gone if they have the same setup: ISP router / modem for internet connection and then connected to another router for wifi.

Personally, I've done so too for security purposes. The ISP router is completely hardened - as restrictive as possible - and on the internal wifi router everything is open.

No issues on network in my house anymore.

Good call.

That network arrangement usually works well (and allows for a much easier change of ISP as you don't risk having to reconfigure your WLAN).

On which do you run your DNS, the WAP or the ISP router?

Ardbeg10y posted:

Bart posted:

My home network is pretty standard, other than that I refuse to use the ISP providers router for wifi. I use that same Apple Time Capsule (it's also an Airport Extreme) for wifi, and everything else is hardwired (cat 5) to a big 16 port switch that in turn is plugged into the ISP's router.  Everything on my home network runs perfectly - even Amazon Fire thingy over wifi. 

You make an important comment here, Bart. I think that many of the app issues of people on this forum would be gone if they have the same setup: ISP router / modem for internet connection and then connected to another router for wifi. 

I agree with "if it works for you ......"  then why not.    However I dont agree any of the above as a general statement of how to overcome whatever problem you might be having with the Naim app over wifi.    I have always had standard ISP wifi hubs during my time with the Naim app, first a BT HH5, now HH6,   & everything works.  The Naim app (including a string beta testing challenges) has never failed because it can't connect over wifi.

Huge posted:

On which do you run your DNS, the WAP or the ISP router?

The WAP. I've switched that off on the ISP router as well as the WAP functionalities there.

Mike,

Yes sometimes ISP provided WAP / switch / DHCP server / DNS / firewall / router / TA  boxes work fine with WiFi communications, but sometimes they don't.

If they don't then the best solutions are:
Add a 3rd party WAP
Fix the WAP / switch settings in the ISP supplied box.

Mike-B posted:

I agree with "if it works for you ......"  then why not.    However I dont agree any of the above as a general statement of how to overcome whatever problem you might be having with the Naim app over wifi.    I have always had standard ISP wifi hubs during my time with the Naim app, first a BT HH5, now HH6,   & everything works.  The Naim app (including a string beta testing challenges) has never failed because it can't connect over wifi.

Sure. I'm not using the Naim app, but my network setup was a way to be able to:

- be safe

- work

- have 4 kids + friends on the network

- be able to stream audio

- watch video on demand

- domotica

I think I'm one of the guys who think that the app could be more robust - despite the fact that I don't use it. As being a software engineer, I recognize the calls of many.

Not disagreeing Huge,  I just think something is missing / not fully understood / misapplied..     I'm wondering if IGMP snooping is in play here,  My BT HH6 cannot turn off IGMP so I can't experiment,  but I use a network switch (Cisco SG110) & wonder if that helps with the wired link between renderer & NAS & the wireless link to iPad/app.    Does adding a 3rd party WAP do the same thing.       Whatever,  I'm only an interested observer here.    

OK, I did have to play around with WiFi / switch settings.

Initially (default settings):
Discovery was very unreliable...
"No Rooms Found" every time the device on which the app was running woke from sleep
Sometimes navigating between screens revealed a disconnection of the app (no data on the screen to which I was navigating).

Turn on DLNA mode
No Change!

Turn off IGMP snooping; DLNA mode OFF
"No Rooms Found" every time the device on which the app was running woke from sleep
Navigating between screens became reliable.
Network load increased

DLNA mode ON; IGMP snooping OFF
If the device maintained the network connection then "No Rooms Found" sometimes occurred (about 70%)
If the device dropped the network connection then "No Rooms Found" occurred every time
Navigating between screens still reliable.

DLNA mode ON, UPnP mode ON; IGMP snooping OFF
App functions reliably
(Turning on UPnP mode is a security risk - so at the same time I substantially increased the security of the WAP2 key in use, the default was no where near strong enough for this operating mode however, the KRACK attack reduces the value of this precaution - and requires that all vulnerable WiFi devices are now disconnected when not in use)

DLNA mode ON, UPnP mode ON; IGMP snooping ON
App functions reliably
Network load reduced

Huge posted:

(Turning on UPnP mode is a security risk - so at the same time I substantially increased the security of the WAP2 key in use, the default was no where near strong enough for this operating mode however, the KRACK attack reduces the value of this precaution - and requires that all vulnerable WiFi devices are now disconnected when not in use)

DLNA mode ON, UPnP mode ON; IGMP snooping ON
App functions reliably
Network load reduced

You rightly mention the krack attack. It means that it is a matter of time and I can switch off the lights of my neighbour. Or switch them on when I like. Or I can open / close his electric garden fence all night.

I found that with 5.7.x and the first betas of 5.8.x, discovery of my rooms was terrible - unpredictable and requiring the app to be killed and restarted often, on my hitherto perfectly usable VM Superhub2ac. Various forum members said "it's your network".

So I added a WAP using a spare AirPort Extreme and discovery did work a lot more reliably on that. Turning IGMP snooping on or off on the AirPort Extreme made no difference.

Version 5.8.2 of the app seems to be back to being as reliable at room discovery as version 5.6 and earlier and I can use the WAP or the Superhub wifi - it makes no difference.

best

David

Ardbeg10y posted:

You rightly mention the krack attack. It means that it is a matter of time and I can switch off the lights of my neighbour. Or switch them on when I like. Or I can open / close his electric garden fence all night.

Until he reboots his WAP then you have to start all over again!

David Hendon posted:

I found that with 5.7.x and the first betas of 5.8.x, discovery of my rooms was terrible - unpredictable and requiring the app to be killed and restarted often, on my hitherto perfectly usable VM Superhub2ac. Various forum members said "it's your network".

So I added a WAP using a spare AirPort Extreme and discovery did work a lot more reliably on that. Turning IGMP snooping on or off on the AirPort Extreme made no difference.

Version 5.8.2 of the app seems to be back to being as reliable at room discovery as version 5.6 and earlier and I can use the WAP or the Superhub wifi - it makes no difference.

best

David

Hi David,

Yes it's an interaction between the app and the limitations (or combined limitations and timings) of the WAP and switch programming, so different versions of the app will behave or misbehave on different non-compliant networks.  If the network reliably handles all the DLNA messages, then the app will work  If the network doesn't reliably handle all the DLNA messages the app may still work or it may misbehave.

As you will see above, in my case IGMP Snooping improved things but was actually a red herring, IGMP wasn't the actual cause of the problem.
I had to fix more fundamental settings of the WAP to get reliable behaviour; and after getting them right, IGMP Snooping became irrelevant.

Maughan67 posted:

But I keep reading about how awful the Naim streaming app is. As well as being generally less good than the Sonos app/interface, it appears to have constant bugs and become unusable after updates etc. 

I don't want to upgrade my sound (Sonos ZP90-->ND5) at the cost of usability/functionality. 

I use both. They have different interfaces and they need some getting used to. The Naim app has had a few more interface tweaks, but the recent one is more logic than the previous one.

I like the Naim app a bit better than the Sonos one, but that is personal preference. In terms of usability, not much difference. Especially for large catalogues, I like Naims scrolling better.