Buyer's remorse

M37 posted:

Just to clarify, none of my regrets has to do with Naim. This is not what this is about. I guess it's all a matter of preferences .. what you like and what works in you system and I've tried various setups.
I don't want to name the turntable models, I'm sure most of the hifi manufacturers are honest and believe in their own products.

Quality doesn't have to do with honesty (though the latter certainly helps with the former), However, you may prevent others from making the same mistake you did.

Well, lets say I don't use Clearaudio.

I regret not buying an Aro and a 552 sooner 

Buying Royd Abbot speakers which were fine (and I kept them for 5 years as I couldn't afford to change them). However, I really wanted to listen to IBLs  but the dealer didn't have a demo pair and persuaded me that I really needed them in active mode with 2 x 250s - which was never going to happen.  I regretted buying the Abbots and not going elsewhere and at least trying the IBLs. After the Abbots I went to SBLs which I've had for 20 years.

BN

I went from years of various Japanese equipment to (about 20 years ago) Mark Levinson (CD, DAC, pre, power) and from there via Classé to a Naim HDX (in 2008). That started the journey through Naim territory to the current 552, 500, NDS etc.  I don't think I regret any of my buying decisions along the way, they were all contributory to my improving audio appreciation.  

But then I had a Naim CD player many many moons ago (must have been one of the first) which I sold to buy a Pioneer player... on reflection, a move to the Naim label at that time (probably 30 years ago) could have saved me £000's, but in all honesty, I just wasn't ready to appreciate what Naim equipment was capable of, in the same way that I wasn't ready to appreciate what a fine cognac can bring to the listening experience, or how a loving and tolerant SWMBO can ease one's upgrade aspirations.

C'est la vie (or as they say in France, "That's life")   

Roger

In my situation, it had more to do with guilt. I felt that I could have put the money to better use, share it so everybody in my family could enjoy the money instead of the self centered act of not including everyone. So I sold my expensive Naim gear and settled for a more modest Naim system. Which in the eyes of most normal people still boarders on the insane. And to be completely honest, my old high dollar system never made me enjoy music any more than I do now, I honestly feel now after living with the two systems, the difference in sound quality wasen't really worth the extra expense afterall.

What I came to realize is that when you invest in a high dollar system you start to analyze the music instead of enjoying it,  you are always worried about this cable or that rack. Should I upgrade this to the next level? It starts to get ridiculous after a while.  You just never seem satisfied with the system and always question yourself that it could always sound better if I buy this or buy that. It actually took the fun out of listening to music.

So, yes, definitely regrets, but I somehow justify it to myself. Even if it does make the guilt a little hard to live with sometimes.

james n posted:

nigelb posted:

james n posted:

252. 

252 boo hoo or 252 yar hoo?

The latter for me.

Boo hoo unfortunately. The path started to stray from Salisbury after that... 

Well, at least you can hang yours on the wall and it can double as a (very expensive) mirror. 

Naim, such a one-trick pony!!

I have no regrets in buying any piece of Hi-fi, But I have massive, massive, huge regret buying my car brand new.

Wish I had not done that and bought more hi-fi instead 

Funny how people think buying a brand new  expensive car is acceptable and feel guilty about hi-fi spending (including me).

I've decided to deal with the guilt buy never buying a brand new car again. 

The family is not happy about this, buy hey ho, a brand new car is a massive financial burden to me and it depreciated the day it is purchased, and every single day thereafter till it is worth nothing.

Look at the price of a 552/500, it will still be in demand and worth something after 40 years of usage.

Try using a car for 40 years 

analogmusic posted:

I have no regrets in buying any piece of Hi-fi, But I have massive, massive, huge regret buying my car brand new.

Wish I had not done that and bought more hi-fi instead 

Funny how people think buying a brand new  expensive car is acceptable and feel guilty about hi-fi spending (including me).

I've decided to deal with the guilt buy never buying a brand new car again. 

The family is not happy about this, buy hey ho, a brand new car is a massive financial burden to me and it depreciated the day it is purchased, and every single day thereafter till it is worth nothing.

Look at the price of a 552/500, it will still be in demand and worth something after 40 years of usage.

Try using a car for 40 years  

A German economist specialising in the automobile industry said that any graduate in management or economics should lose his degree certificate when buying a new car because it is such a irrational decision questiong whether he learned much in his degree — really bad business decision because of the massive depreciation of new cars. Apparently 3-year old cars are a good buys....

I do like my XS2 rather a lot, but I do regret that I didn’t go for an SN2... When buying the XS2 I didn’t quite expect that I would enjoy music that much. It was a big jump from a small Denon mini system to the XS2/ND5XS/PMC25.23 — a totally new world to me. None of our friends was into hifi.

analogmusic posted:

...Try using a car for 40 years 

 

 

Analog, your comment reminded me that a friend of my Mother who lives in the village here still regularly uses the car he has had since he was 18 years old.  The bodywork is a bit of a patchwork, the paint is flaking or chipped and slightly different shades of green on various parts, the leather is now like suede, the interior showing every day of it's 80 years of use, but mechanically it is in good health and everybody waves at the car when he's out pootling about.  It has become a much loved part of the family. When he either pass away or can no longer drive then it will go to one of his daughters.  Lucky girl.

As so often happens, the topic has shifted to something else than its title. Buyer's remorse is one thing, regret over some purchase another.

A) 

Buyer's remorse (or buyer's regret) is the sense of regret after having made a purchase. It is frequently associated with the purchase of an expensive item such as a car or a house. It may stem from fear of making the wrong choice, guilt over extravagance, or a suspicion of having been overly influenced by the seller.^[1]

Buyer's remorse is thought to stem from cognitive dissonance.

B)

In the field of psychology, cognitive dissonance is the mental discomfort (psychological stress) experienced by a person who simultaneously holds two or more contradictory beliefs, ideas, or values. The occurrence of cognitive dissonance is a consequence of a person's performing an action that contradicts personal beliefs, ideals, and values; and also occurs when confronted with new information that contradicts said beliefs, ideals, and values.

(Wikipedia)

So, if it's about regretting a purchase, I only regret having bought the SuperUniti and the Luxman LX590. Two moments of acknowledged cognitive dissonance; if it's about buyer's remorse, I feel it each time I buy anything, even a ball pen or the paper for the printer.

Best

M. 

Naim Core.

Bought back in December/January. Still hasnt met my baseline requirement for functionality/capability/reliability. Maybe the next firmware release will help

Brands like Naim may retain a strong second hand value but investments they are not. 

As for buyer's remorse; in the mid 80s I needed a new CD player and everyone was raving about the Phillips CD160. It was being praised to the rafters. So I bought one. And sold it two weeks later (luckily). That was the last piece of HiFi I bought without auditioning it beforehand. A valuable lesson learned when I was still young enough to profit from it.

If I couldn't get to a Naim dealer easily I probably wouldn't own any. Our increasing admiration of and loyalty to the company down the years has been a win win. For amps and sources, Naim will always get the first shot come upgrade time. But we don't buy automatically. Arriva, SL2, Ovator 400 and 600, FlatCap, 200, 202, 250, 282, CD555, NDX have all been auditioned  (about 50% of them at home) and passed on. We either kept what we had or bought something else. That CD160 trauma  taught me well.

Richard Dane posted:

analogmusic posted:

...Try using a car for 40 years 

 

 

Analog, your comment reminded me that a friend of my Mother who lives in the village here still regularly uses the car he has had since he was 18 years old.  The bodywork is a bit of a patchwork, the paint is flaking or chipped and slightly different shades of green on various parts, the leather is now like suede, the interior showing every day of it's 80 years of use, but mechanically it is in good health and everybody waves at the car when he's out pootling about.  It has become a much loved part of the family. When he either pass away or can no longer drive then it will go to one of his daughters.  Lucky girl.

Lovely story, Richard. That would make a nice restoration project.

So did he buy it used, or is he still driving, aged 98?!

Tony, I reckon it's much nicer just left as is - with mechanics kept in good fettle as and when required.

Chris, I believe it was a secondhand buy, albeit well over 60 years ago.

Richard Dane posted:

Tony, I reckon it's much nicer just left as is - with mechanics kept in good fettle as and when required.

That Bentkey seems to have a great history, Richard. Certainly, IMO, deserves a bit of TLC. 

“Mentioned on page 38 of Kenneth Neve's book "A Bit Behind the Times" (Grenville Press 1988). Owned by his brother. Raced by the Birkin brothers in the 1927 Essex Six Hour race at Brooklands where it was the only one, of four Bentleys, to finish — in third place at 59.8 mph average.”

Chassis No. LM1327
Engine No. LM1329
Registration No. KM 5844
Date of Delivery: Jul 1926
Type of Body: 4-seater
Coachbuilder: Vanden Plas
Type of Car: SP

First Owner: STURRIDGE M H G


More Info: According to original Vanden Plas Coachbuilder records, this car was originally fitted with Body No. 1240 with a Standard 4-seater Sports; blue / black; 7/1926.

Yup, that's the one.  I think it's gorgeous just as it is.  

I see it looks like it still has racing slicks...

Back on topic, I did feel a bit miffed when I bought two HiCaps to power my NAC82 preamp just a few months before the Supercap was released. I sold the HiCaps a while later to make way for the Supercap, which was without doubt the biggest upgrade in terms of improved sound that I have ever made. 

Timo posted:

I do like my XS2 rather a lot, but I do regret that I didn’t go for an SN2... When buying the XS2 I didn’t quite expect that I would enjoy music that much. It was a big jump from a small Denon mini system to the XS2/ND5XS/PMC25.23 — a totally new world to me. None of our friends was into hifi.

The xs-2 is grossly underrated. JV would’ve said Yes, even if its power rating went beyond his stipulations for an Integrated in his time. ��

The SuperNAIT was not my best purchase. Not because it sounded bad but it was a dead end, especially when I later realised that I wanted to go active. 

Good point regarding cars though. I think my current hifi cost still less than a decent new Golf would have. So much money for something in which you want to stay only as long as necessary to get you to the place where you really want to be, i.e. vacation, friends, family, hifi.

Not buyer's remorse but regret, 2 in respect of hifi:

1) XP5XS because the difference it brought was so small as to not be worth the cost - it lasted a month before I sold it, at a loss.

2) ND5XS - though the regret was not about buying it, as it was a perfectly good player that I did enjoy for a while, rather it was regret that I hadn't done more research about the new (to me) subject of streaming, only afterwards learning more and discovering that for the same money I could have got even better sound quality.

Outside of hifi, I have made a couple of bad financial decisions, that caused far more serious regret than anything hifi, with losses that could have bought a truly top-end hifi system: I would have had buyer's remorse had I spent that amount of money on hifi, real guilt at the commitment of such large resources purely for my own hobby - but I would still have it to enjoy every day for the rest of my life.      ...now that does twist the regret!

On the subject of cars, in general I have never understood people buying new cars, as you lose so much on the day you buy them - and if simply because of having enough money to not be concerned, that only makes sense if it is the very best car you could possibly want, otherwise a secondhand one gets you better for the same money, yet some people buy their new mundane motors with amazing regularity. (Of course, someone has to, otherwise there'd be no secondhand models for others!) Neither have I understood the fixation some people have on having to keep the semblence of new, buying again every year or so, but that is a different subject....

I agree about new cars. But is new hifi equipment, even Naim, that much better? Fairly new Naim kit is what, 30%?, cheaper second hand and doesn't suffer from wear and tear the way cars do. 

I've only bought a new car once but I've bought new Naim stuff a few ones so I'm not preaching!