SBL bass

Hi David,

Welcome 'back'. I can't comment on that Stones record because I only have it on CD.

About the room, specifically the floor.... You say it is a laminate floor. Is there a void beneath it or is it concrete?

My opinion of my own SBLs is that they have become better the more attention I have paid to damping the room. Is a bigger, heavier rug possible? I have also found them better on the longer wall rather than the shorter which you have. I'm guessing such a change would be domestically unacceptable.

Personally, I would make the effort to reseal both speakers paying attention to the fact that the aluminium pads should not be pierced. New ones are available from Naim. Correct torque of the driver bolts may be required too.

Last thing, are the speakers wired in phase?

Chris

Hi Chris,

Didn't realise I have been a member before! I did try and sign in just in case but I had to signup again so assume I hadn't!

Anyway, thanks for the quick reply.

The floor is concrete with that felt stuff between it and the floor. Can't move the speakers to the long wall as there are windows and doors in the way.

The vinyl version of the Stones album sounds when CDs first came out! A real curtain shredder!

Cheers,

David.

One issue here is that the SBLs are a boundary design, hence the room is very much a part of the equation in getting the sound and frequency balance right.  Bass in particular can be tricky - as you have discovered wherever you place the speakers, the bass quantity will be greatest in a particular place in the room.  You may also have null areas and areas where it's nicely balanced. The key is finding the latter places and arranging things within the room to suit. 

That should be a cracking sounding system David. If you really can’t move speaker position try moving your listening position forwards and backwards to see if there is a point that sounds balanced. I have used SBLs in many rooms and always managed to get them to sound good although I prefer a light fast understated bass performance personally. Love SBLs!

Not a Stones fan but the new release was not regarded as sounding particularly good in the press.

Stu

Unfortunately that's the only place the SBLs can go.

They have never had a lot of bass but they seem lighter than I remember. There is different furniture now from back then so shifting things around could yield some results.

Thanks for the replies.

Cheers,

David.

Hi David I think maybe you should think about trading in those SBL's for something that suits your room better there are some fantastic speakers out there on the used market.  The rest of your system is absolutely top drawer a beautiful cartridge a great deck and 32.5/250  IMO deserves a more sympathetic speaker. Early this year I blew a pair of speakers and for a temporary measure I paid £500 for a set of Dynaudio x32's and they are still inmy system and have been used with a 200, 250-2 and now a 300 lots and lots of bass.

I think I'm going to end up with speakers in the end but will try changing things around first.

The thing about the SBLs is the need to go against a wall and with my limited space that's ideal.

Thanks for suggestion I'll check the Dynaudios out.

Cheers,

David.

Oh - you definitely need speakers.

Sometimes, when SBLs are brought back into play from years of storage, they can take a week or two to loosen back up again. 

However, there could be various things ailing a classic old pair of SBLs and it may require a full and careful rebuild with new tweeters, x-overs, and a new gasket set to get them back up to spec. Well worth doing though; 'tis plane foolish to underestimate the magnificence of a well tempered pair of sibbles 

Debs, How would David or anyone else know if they needed new tweeters for their SBLs?

Bob, how could you say that? (shaking head in dismay)....

Seriously though, improving on those SBLs will be expensive. The real problem is sourcing parts as Naim no longer have replacement Paxo/tweeters etc. Tom Tom do gasket kits and new grills. Maybe Darren at class A can service the existing Paxo if needed? Well worth a bit of effort to get those Sibbles in shape!

Stu

Christopher_M posted:

Debs, How would David or anyone else know if they needed new tweeters for their SBLs?

Worn out or damaged tweeters can produce all manner of strange noises, distortion, and can be far too fatiguing to entertain.

If David the OP's SBLs are from the late 1980s they are almost 30 years old now. It's possible the tweeters can still function okay, but i bet the x-overs could do with a rebuild.

My old knackered x-overs made the SBLs sound steely harsh and fatiguing : )

Debs

Naim don't have tweeters? First time I've heard that - when did the supply stop?

If Class A won't/can't, Witch Hat told me they could service SBL crossovers a while back, so I imagine they still would if requested.

Is it possible to buy just the caps for the crossovers as they look easy to replace?

Cheers,

David. 

Found this site for replacement caps 

Cheers,

David

If you know what you are doing then yes - check out Falcon acoustics for components. With boards of this age it's also worth checking all the solder joints and re-flowing where necessary, especially around the sockets. 

If not then check with Naim / Class A and others as suggested above who can bring them back to new.  

James

My crossovers were serviced at Winchester Hi-fi. Very reasonable. Sound really opened up afterwards.

From what I read, speaker positioning and a lack of damping are the origin of your problems. My SBLs were not happy on a laminate floor over concrete.

I'm going to ask again, are the SBLs in phase?

Thanks for the supplier name. I see they also sell tweeters!

Cheers,

David.

mayburyds posted:

Is it possible to buy just the caps for the crossovers as they look easy to replace?

Cheers,

David. 

It looks easy & provided you are competent, it is.     However to replace some older caps which might be small case sized electrolytic or maybe a smaller cased film type & to change to a larger cased "audio grade" film cap,  it might be a bit tricky.   

The www outlets mentioned above are all good, (Falcon lives in the next village down the road from me)  also checkout Wilmslow Audio 

Christopher,

Sorry I missed your question about phasing :+(

When I set the system up I went through the HiFi News test record to make sure everything was OK, so yep, they are in phase.

What did you do to overcome the laminate/concrete floor issue?

Cheers,

David.

Thanks, and pleased they are in phase, red to red and black to black.

My laminate floor was cheap and slightly rippled. The SBLs were never very firmly sited. It was almost as if there was an air bubble beneath the laminate. The laminate was pulled up and the best underlay and wool carpet I could afford were fitted. The speakers are spiked through onto the concrete, the locknuts done up hard, and the bass far tighter and deeper.

Chris

It’s good to know that Falcon Acoustics supply both bass drivers and tweeters for SBLs. I know Naim pair matched and tweaked these items so it would be interesting to know if these new units would outperform ageing original ones. Unlikely, but anyone tried to compare?

Stu

Stu,

Hope I haven't missed lead you!

Falcon have Naim tweeters listed for the SL DBL NBL. I'm assuming, probably wrongly, that they fit the SBLs.

Can't see any reference to bass units being available.

Cheers,

David.

David, Falcon do indeed stock the correct Scanspeak D2008s (D2008 851100) as used in the Naim SBL.  Only difference is that they won't be Naim selected or matched as pairs.

n.b. Note that the tweeter for the SL2, NBL and DBL is different - the Scanspeak D2010 851100.

As others have said, I would think it's the shape and size of the room, as well as that reflective flooring causing the woes.  I had laminate in my last place and the bass when seated was virtually non existent, that's using big B&W 703's!  I added a rug which helped a lot.  Room acoustics are hugely overlooked in hifi in my opinion, but generally speaking practically denotes that you can't address it in full without your lounge becoming akin to a music studio.

Have the gaskets been done on the SBL's too?  Mine deliver amazing full range sound when i've got the volume cranked up.  While they're aren't a speaker associated with 'big bass' they still work well (very well) with some good amplification.  I love mine.