Radio Paradise flac streaming

Yes good news indeed,   fingers crossed for not too long to wait.     Meanwhile if anyone finds a way to hook it up to a Windows/Mac/iOS without a rats nest of wires, lets hear about it

Phil Harris posted:

Gavin B posted:

Any chance of a comment from Naim? [@mention:1566878603985147]? Could you at least tell us Naim are looking into this?

We're aware that RP launched a FLAC stream and I believe it has already been raised with vTuner (who actually maintain the indexing) regarding getting it onto the lists...

Phil

...and after having checked into where we are with this it seems that the RP FLAC stream isn't actually a stream - it's a rolling playlist that gets continually updated with each track being played as an individual entity so it's not possible to simply add it as a normal stream URL ... as this is yet another different (and unique/proprietry) method of implementation of 'HiDef' streaming then it is unlikely that we will incorporate a one off codebase to cover this.

Phil

Maybe those nice guys at Minim will step in again?!

Phil, am I right to infer that it would be something you'd be willing/able to incorporate, if the stream were the kind of DASH compliant stream which Simon refers to above?

Ie if RP did it right, using the updated method available since earlier this year, all would be well?

Dave***t posted:

Phil, am I right to infer that it would be something you'd be willing/able to incorporate, if the stream were the kind of DASH compliant stream which Simon refers to above?

Ie if RP did it right, using the updated method available since earlier this year, all would be well?

Hi Dave,

I obviously can't make corporate decisions but I would presume that if a streaming provider "did it right" using an agreed and standard then there should be no reason why it wouldn't be looked into and a decision taken on whether to support it and on what devices.

As it is, RP have confirmed that their FLAC service is something that they have had to modify into their apps rather than it being a true stream...

http://www.radioparadise.com/m...0&foo=1509006652

...stating that "All FLAC streaming is file playback rather than a true stream, so it's a bit complicated. On our apps, we've come up with various tricks to make it happen (without losing the segues & timing that makes RP different than something like Pandora or Spotify). "

Phil

Thanks Phil, that's fair enough.

Yeah, the idiosyncrasy was noted further up the thread. But if there is a new, standard way then it seems maybe just a bit of communication could help. I'm guessing RP just aren't aware of the new standard/haven't figured out how to implement it. Seems unlikely they'd go the way they have, otherwise.

I'll see if I can find an address to drop them an email. Does anyone (SiS?) know a good place to point them to for further info on the new-ish DASH stream format?

Dave, if you go to the RP website they have a forum which the owners contribute to, see Phil’s link above. There is also a ‘contact us’ page. 

As you will see from that thread, in addition to RP apps, you can use Alexa devices, and a Linux/RPi implementation of some sort is in the pipeline, so there are a few options. 

I concluded that I didn't understand enough of the relevant technology to offer much explanation to the RP folks, but I've mentioned it on their relevant forum thread.  Fingers crossed it helps get things moving...

There’s now a rp FLAC plug-in for LMS which can run on a Synology NAS and directly to a Naim streamer with a UPnP plugin. (Can also use Qobuz in similar manner) all controlled by iPeng on an iPad. 

LMS is the logitec media server, isn't it? I did not know that there is a upnp plugin for this. Is it also possible to stream qobuz to a naim streamer this way? (AFAIK there is a qobuz plugin for LMS.)

Yes to all. Can stream Qobuz and all the BBC play-again sites too. I used to use a Squeezebox Touch into the NDS but that’s now redundant with the UPnP plugin. 

i did attach the link but not sure if that’s allowed ????

Oops sorry. Your first message was so interesting, that I did miss the part in the brackets "(Can also use Qobuz in similar manner)".

Thank you for the infos. I think I have to try this soon. Especially the qobuz part.

To any who manage/have managed to get this working in a Naim context, would you mind setting out *in basic terms* how it all works? 

I think there are probably quite a few people who'd be interested in trying it out, but who might be put off by the technical details (eg the previously linked forum discussion was 150-odd pages long!).

I'd have a go myself, but don't have time right now, and was concerned by a post I saw somewhere that the LMS stops the NAS being able to sleep.

Hi Dave

I can only speak from my experience from installing this on my system. 

A plugin has been developed to give LMS UPnP functions.

Once installed, LMS now works as a UPnP server and can be run on a mac, pc, or Synology NAS drive.  It has a number of plugins which can be enabled allowing it to supply Qobuz, Tidal, Radio Paradise, BBC play again etc to a Naim streamer (NDS etc).

This needs to be controlled with an app such as iPeng which runs on an iPad or iPhone. 

Once it's up and running it seems flawless, controlling the NDS in a similar manner to the Naim App. 

I have not noticed the NAS being unable to sleep.

Best wishes, Ray. 

Indeed the LSM package is listed as one of the third party packages, that "prevent your Synology NAS from entering hibernation mode or will awake your Synology NAS from hibneration mode from time to time."

https://www.synology.com/en-us...g_System_Hibernation

But minimserver is listed there as well, what makes me wonder. So I think I still can give it a try.

Ok, it works. But currently the volume (hard disc) load is very high (100%) even after finishing the music library scan. RP is playing in flac. Nice. Also qobuz did work. But because the poor little DS213+ NAS is at its limit, navigating was very slow. I hope the systems settles soon and I can experiment some further.

Quick howto:

• Install the logitech media server LMS (on my NAS it is a beta version) package from the Synology package center on your NAS.
• open the LMS web player page via the apps menu icon on your NAS's web GUI.
• Create an account on the logitechmediaserver.com page (or whatever the name was) and log yourself in. (btw.: Why do you need this login? Is it possible to use the LMS without this?).
• Follow the setup wizard to tell LMS the path to your music library if you want to play your music, too. Otherwise you probably can skip this page as I did with the playlist folder setup.
• After finishing the setup wizard open the LMS settings and choose "plugins".
• Install the upnp bridge package, the radio paradise package (and if you like the qobuz package)
• after restarting the player you can choose the settings from these packages and configure them. On my NAS I had to choose the static-ppc-driver for the upnp bridge. The none static did crash as you can see in the logfile that can be found in the LMS settings in the "information" tab. 
• After a while all upnp players in my network could be found in the player selection box on the LMS main page. I did choose my naim uniti and could play via "My Apps"->"Radio Paradise"

Greetings
Gert

A small update to my LMS experiments: After removing some plugins that I certainly do not need the system speed is quite fast again. Especially the plugin "UPnP/DLNA Media Interface" is said to be very CPU expensive. Playback of qobuz works really fine and gaplessly.

Currently I am just using the web UI from the LMS package. I have to check how to buy something in the apple app store to get ipeng.

gert posted:

A small update to my LMS experiments: After removing some plugins that I certainly do not need the system speed is quite fast again. Especially the plugin "UPnP/DLNA Media Interface" is said to be very CPU expensive. Playback of qobuz works really fine and gaplessly.

Currently I am just using the web UI from the LMS package. I have to check how to buy something in the apple app store to get ipeng.

Thank you for the tip to can the "UPnP/DLNA Media Interface" plugin. I use LMS because that's what I used before I got the NAC272 and I still have some legacy players. My 212j is happier for it. I was surprised to still see my NAC272 still offered as a player in LMS after turning that off, presumably the UPnP/DLNA bridge is doing the hard work.

I will try the Radio Paradise package to get flac streaming now. Nice tip!

Hello Gert,

Can you tell me what are your settings for the plugin? I have a Synology Nas 213+ and a Naim Uniti Nova. Unfortunately, my Nova stops to stream from Qobuz after one song. Thank you!

ermine posted:

"UPnP/DLNA Media Interface" ... I was surprised to still see my NAC272 still offered as a player in LMS after turning that off, presumably the UPnP/DLNA bridge is doing the hard work.

I would describe the plugins as follows:

With the UPnP/DLNA Media Interface plugin your UPnP controll point (this can be an UPnP control app or the naim uniti itself when handled with the normal remote control) does see the LMS as UPnP server. So you can play music from it with the normal naim app. As you will have another UPnP server anyway installed on the NAS, you do not need this.

The UPnP bridge looks for UPnP streamers in your network and creates a logical squeezebox player (a proxy player) for each of them. LMS can see these proxy players and stream music to them. The proxy player forwards the data to your streamer. So yes, this plugin is doing the hard work.

Beajuju posted:

Hello Gert,

Can you tell me what are your settings for the plugin? I have a Synology Nas 213+ and a Naim Uniti Nova. Unfortunately, my Nova stops to stream from Qobuz after one song. Thank you!

I can check the settings these evening. But I just did use the default values. They did work fine. After I have found the offered default settings for a "naim uniti2", I switched to this default for my uniti, but I did not see what was the difference. It still did work.

If the Nova has problems with track advancing I recommend to turn off the gapless playback for a test. If playing multiple tracks works with this turned off, the Nova has an issue with the gapless mode. I have read in this forum about a gapless issue with Roon and a new uniti device. So maybe naim really has to fix something in their firmware?

I just had a bit of a go, and got as far as having everything mentioned above installed, but when trying to use the RP plugin within LMS, I get an error message saying I'm lacking Perl module IO::Socket::SSL.  From a quick google, it seems likely to require getting into command line kind of stuff to sort this out.

That's taken me to pretty much the limit of my current bothered quotient, so I've given up.

Fingers crossed a more official method is found soon.  I hold out a vague hope that, given that Naim and RP have clearly collaborated in the past (see Naim exlcusive 320kbps stream), they can do so again.

Dave, which NAS and which DSM version do you have installed? Normally all required perl modules should be included in the Synology perl package?

The latest Synology DSM (updated this week to 6.1.4-15217)  is Perl-5.24.  This is the latest Perl & was released May 2016,  so I doubt it's as simple as needing a new Perl.

Hello Gert,

I followed your steps above for installing LMS on my Synology NAS.

Having installed the RParadise app, please can you confirm how I should use the LMS web app to select the RP flac stream? I assume it is by selecting the RP "App" that has been installed? If this is the case I seem to get a "Radio Paradsie lossless streaming requires the Perl module IO::Socket::SSL. Please use your operating system's package manager to install it." message - despite having Perl installed.

Any clarifications greatly appreciated. Thanks.