Blimey, the 272 is even better than I thought it was...

Hungryhalibut posted:

The new wires have arrived, which completes the process. Hurrah. 

does that include SL speaker cables? so you are "full loom" again? Congratulations by the way -- i cant tell you that to prepare for some serious performance from the NAP300 as you know this already anyhow...

enjoy

ken

Hungryhalibut posted:

analogmusic posted:

so what do they add to the system over the standard DIN/XLR?

 

Impossible to answer after 10 minutes. Let’s see how it is by the new year. 

what SL does should be pretty apparent.... ...   even out of the box?

For the money I’d think so. 

Atherton posted:

Hungryhalibut posted:

When I got my 272/250 I used it briefly with twenty.23s and it was really good. The speakers need some driving and if it were me I’d go for a 250 if it’s do-able. 

Thank you HH. I am finding this thread so interesting, but it's driving me nuts! I was thinking of uprading my 200 DR to a 250 DR. But now I'm thinking of a 300 DR, which stretches budget to the limit. The idea of a 555 PS DR sounds great, but is out of the question. Is a 300DR wasted on a 272 without a separate psu? Am I better off with a 250DR and an XPS DR? The latter has fine reviews but seems to be a stepping stone to the 555PS for many....

[@mention:54927090893530075] - If you speakers need the juice, don't discount adding the 300 to the bare 272. You will miss out on the detail that the psu might add to the 272, but wasted the 300 is certainly not. 

I ran the 300 from my main system with the bare 272 fed into the Harbeth SHL5+ speakers. In the context of those speakers, I'd take the 272/300 over the 272/xpsdr/250.

MangoMonkey posted:

Atherton posted:

Hungryhalibut posted:

When I got my 272/250 I used it briefly with twenty.23s and it was really good. The speakers need some driving and if it were me I’d go for a 250 if it’s do-able. 

Thank you HH. I am finding this thread so interesting, but it's driving me nuts! I was thinking of uprading my 200 DR to a 250 DR. But now I'm thinking of a 300 DR, which stretches budget to the limit. The idea of a 555 PS DR sounds great, but is out of the question. Is a 300DR wasted on a 272 without a separate psu? Am I better off with a 250DR and an XPS DR? The latter has fine reviews but seems to be a stepping stone to the 555PS for many....

[@mention:54927090893530075] - If you speakers need the juice, don't discount adding the 300 to the bare 272. You will miss out on the detail that the psu might add to the 272, but wasted the 300 is certainly not. 

I ran the 300 from my main system with the bare 272 fed into the Harbeth SHL5+ speakers. In the context of those speakers, I'd take the 272/300 over the 272/xpsdr/250.

There's a 3 box system I haven't seen discussed much if any. 

Turns out there is a review. 

https://www.naimaudio.com/site...%20Naim_Focal_LR.pdf

If you read the detail of the review you’ll see that the 272 came with an XPS, and the benefits are described. So it’s actually a four box system, and the fact that the 272 was supplied for review with an XPS perhaps indicates that Naim believe a bare 272 with a 300 is not ideal. 

How about a none DR 300 anyone tried this with the 272

I seem to recall a friend of mine went to a Naim open day somewhere and they were using 272/300DR with the same big Focal speakers can't recall if there was a psu on the 272 but remember him raving about these 2 boxes.

For me the downside of going for a 300DR with a bare 272 is that, although it would undoubtedly be a big improvement over my 200DR, I would be living in the certain knowledge that I was not getting 'the best' out of the 300DR. To do so really requires the approach taken by HH, ie psu, fancy cables etc etc.

So I'm leaning towards a 250DR and an XPS DR, which I think would be an optimally balanced system and well matched to my PMC Twenty 23's. My motivation for the upgrade is that, although the 200DR is extremely good I feel there is room for improvement particularly at low volume when the 23's aren't really delivering the goods. Hopefully the 250DR would overcome this weakness, and the XPS DR will add further SQ improvements.

Hungryhalibut posted:

If you read the detail of the review you’ll see that the 272 came with an XPS, and the benefits are described. So it’s actually a four box system, and the fact that the 272 was supplied for review with an XPS perhaps indicates that Naim believe a bare 272 with a 300 is not ideal. 

Pesky little details. Maybe I should have read the review first. Lol

Atherton posted:

For me the downside of going for a 300DR with a bare 272 is that, although it would undoubtedly be a big improvement over my 200DR, I would be living in the certain knowledge that I was not getting 'the best' out of the 300DR. To do so really requires the approach taken by HH, ie psu, fancy cables etc etc.

So I'm leaning towards a 250DR and an XPS DR, which I think would be an optimally balanced system and well matched to my PMC Twenty 23's. My motivation for the upgrade is that, although the 200DR is extremely good I feel there is room for improvement particularly at low volume when the 23's aren't really delivering the goods. Hopefully the 250DR would overcome this weakness, and the XPS DR will add further SQ improvements.

You are leaning in the right direction, as far as I’m concerned. The twenty.23s will be far better with a 250 than a 200. 

Atherton posted:

For me the downside of going for a 300DR with a bare 272 is that, although it would undoubtedly be a big improvement over my 200DR, I would be living in the certain knowledge that I was not getting 'the best' out of the 300DR. To do so really requires the approach taken by HH, ie psu, fancy cables etc etc.

So I'm leaning towards a 250DR and an XPS DR, which I think would be an optimally balanced system and well matched to my PMC Twenty 23's. My motivation for the upgrade is that, although the 200DR is extremely good I feel there is room for improvement particularly at low volume when the 23's aren't really delivering the goods. Hopefully the 250DR would overcome this weakness, and the XPS DR will add further SQ improvements.

Do get a demo of the xps. I've sold my XPS off - and not sure how much I miss it. The 272/250 is my second system - so trying to keep it Spartan. main is NDS 552 300.

From said review: “Which brings us back to the N272, a distinctly sensible and highly versatile solution to the issues surrounding file replay founded on the stable base of the Naim eco-system.”

Who would have thought...

G

I demoed a 300dr with 272 bare with s400s It sounded fantastic. There is absolutely nothing wrong with that combo. I bought that very same 300 and ran it with my SU for a while. The 300dr was the foundation of the whole system I was building and now have. 

Drewy posted:

I demoed a 300dr with 272 bare with s400s It sounded fantastic. There is absolutely nothing wrong with that combo. I bought that very same 300 and ran it with my SU for a while. The 300dr was the foundation of the whole system I was building and now have. 

Of course I realise you’d want to be adding the power supply at a later date because that’s the way it goes but I wasn’t going to buy a 250 knowing I’d be looking to trade it in for the 300 down the line losing money unnecessarily  at the same time. I was always looking one or two steps ahead.

[@mention:4804681823084713] Thanks for that feedback, getting the best out of my Twenty 23's is exactly what I'm after.

[@mention:17757776930523932] I will try to arrange a demo of the XPS DR. No doubt I'd get a better deal on one if I bought one at the same time as a 250DR, but I'd sure like to hear a direct comparison of with/without XPS DR.

[@mention:45633858936632844] Looking at your system you are on an altogether higher level than I currently have aspirations for. I imagine the 300DR is perfect for the system you have.

With the 23s, I’d get the 250DR first, then think about the XPS later. You can pick up some well priced used boxes if you keep your eyes open. When I packed mine up for sale, they were both as pristine as they were when I first took them out of their boxes a couple of years previously. 

MangoMonkey posted:

Atherton posted:

For me the downside of going for a 300DR with a bare 272 is that, although it would undoubtedly be a big improvement over my 200DR, I would be living in the certain knowledge that I was not getting 'the best' out of the 300DR. To do so really requires the approach taken by HH, ie psu, fancy cables etc etc.

So I'm leaning towards a 250DR and an XPS DR, which I think would be an optimally balanced system and well matched to my PMC Twenty 23's. My motivation for the upgrade is that, although the 200DR is extremely good I feel there is room for improvement particularly at low volume when the 23's aren't really delivering the goods. Hopefully the 250DR would overcome this weakness, and the XPS DR will add further SQ improvements.

Do get a demo of the xps. I've sold my XPS off - and not sure how much I miss it. The 272/250 is my second system - so trying to keep it Spartan. main is NDS 552 300.

I don't totally disagree with that sentiment. I think the SL IC offers more SQ improvement for the money vs XPS dr. I just went through a test with and without SL IC and then without XPS DR. I feel if I had to choose to live without one it would be without the XPS dr. Luckily I don't have to choose and have decided to keep both. Now to decide if I want to add SL SC. 

I’ve been playing a lot of music today, and the last album of the day is the new one from Stacey Kent. The sound I’m getting is just incredible, so much better than before. It reminds me of how it was with the big system ten years ago. It’s so wonderful to hear the SL2s in full flight; something that that the 250 just wasn’t able to do somehow. It’s just amazingly good, it’s hard to describe. 

Hungryhalibut posted:

I’ve been playing a lot of music today, and the last album of the day is the new one from Stacey Kent. The sound I’m getting is just incredible, so much better than before. It reminds me of how it was with the big system ten years ago. It’s so wonderful to hear the SL2s in full flight; something that that the 250 just wasn’t able to do somehow. It’s just amazingly good, it’s hard to describe. 

That is great. I add my congratutions for your fantastic upgrade. From what I've read in this thread, you thoroughly deserve it. I hope you enjoy your new system for many years to come. Don't even think about a NAC 372!

[@mention:4804681823084713] -

Now knowing what you know - what should be the first uografe to the 272/250DR/naca5?

XPS-DR, SL connectors, or SL speaker cables?

XPS. Boxes first, wires second. Which is exactly what I did two years ago. 

I have followed this very long thread, all the way to Milan and back. I am very pleased for HH and it's interesting to hear about what he is doing and the exciting results he has achieved, but sitting listening this afternoon to my Core, 272, XPS DR and 250DR with standard interconnects and NAC-A5, I am noticing that it sounds just as good as ever and not diminished by all the thoughts of upgrading going on elsewhere.

best

David

That’s exactly how it should be. Someone somewhere will always have something better, and accepting that is really important if one is to  enjoy what one has. 

[@mention:4804681823084713] - speaker cables or interconnect first?