Blimey, the 272 is even better than I thought it was...

It’s the fennel tea. 

Huge posted:

IT would be interesting go to Salisbury and hear a demo of Atom, then Atom + 200, then 272 +200, then 272/XPSDR + 250DR.

That would allow us to talk knowledgeably and give advice about a serious and sensible upgrade path from a basic system to one just starting to touch at the high end.

As one who is considering upgrading my 272 + 200DR to 272/XPSDR + 250DR does this amount to me "just starting to touch at the high end"?  How do you define a high end system? Is it a function of cost, or is it perhaps something more subtle like it sounding unbelieveably amazing to the listener, to the extent that he/she is happy to stick with it?

Atherton posted:

Huge posted:

IT would be interesting go to Salisbury and hear a demo of Atom, then Atom + 200, then 272 +200, then 272/XPSDR + 250DR.

That would allow us to talk knowledgeably and give advice about a serious and sensible upgrade path from a basic system to one just starting to touch at the high end.

As one who is considering upgrading my 272 + 200DR to 272/XPSDR + 250DR does this amount to me "just starting to touch at the high end"?  How do you define a high end system? Is it a function of cost, or is it perhaps something more subtle like it sounding unbelieveably amazing to the listener, to the extent that he/she is happy to stick with it?

We could probably use cost as a proxy for quality to a limited extent, though given that we all hear things differently it would certainly be somewhat contentious especially when you look at the current High End systems reviewed in the media - which feel like Bugatti Veyron territory! 

I am mid-way through your possible upgrade path as I added the XPSDR to my 272 and 200DR and was delighted with the SQ improvements and perhaps even more importantly SWMBO also grudgingly acknowledged the improvement. My current view is that I will enjoy this performance uplift without getting too antsy about the 250DR just yet. That would also probably be combined with an assessment on speakers - currently the 906 are doing a very satisfactory job but would probably have to look hard at those too. 

Clearly a Denon D-M40 with a pair of Wharefdale Diamonds isn't high end; clearly a Naim Statement system is.  In between there's a grey area...

For me the high end can be defined in a few ways.

First is cost, when cost of the system starts to exceed the price of a small ("super-mini") car by one of the mainstream manufacturers, e.g. Vauxhall Coarser, Ford Fiasco etc..

Second when the tweakery such as room treatment, racks, cables, cable dressing etc start to have as much impact on the sound as does a box upgrade.

Third, when you feel the need to take the system apart and reconnect everything, or power down and restart everything, or realign the Turntable twice a year just to ensure it's running on top form.

Huge posted:

 

Third, when you feel the need to take the system apart and reconnect everything, or power down and restart everything, or realign the Turntable twice a year just to ensure it's running on top form.

Which is presumably just a short step before the significant other calls in the men with white coats....

Atherton posted:

Huge posted:

IT would be interesting go to Salisbury and hear a demo of Atom, then Atom + 200, then 272 +200, then 272/XPSDR + 250DR.

That would allow us to talk knowledgeably and give advice about a serious and sensible upgrade path from a basic system to one just starting to touch at the high end.

As one who is considering upgrading my 272 + 200DR to 272/XPSDR + 250DR does this amount to me "just starting to touch at the high end"?  How do you define a high end system? Is it a function of cost, or is it perhaps something more subtle like it sounding unbelieveably amazing to the listener, to the extent that he/she is happy to stick with it?

I'm not sure if Naim offer an upgraditis jab which could be administered around the same time as the seasonal flu jab?!

Just as curiosity killed the cat; upgraditis can kill your bank account.

I have tried over the years to sort myself out with a stereo which sounds great within my financial constraints.  To go beyond that would not make for a pleasant listening experience!  Trouble is, after a (variable) period of time, I have become curious again with the age old question - I wonder how the next level up would sound in my room?  Itch... Scratch... Bosh!! 

I would consider any naim system to be high end by most people's expectations and I have tried not to get too hung up on low/ mid/ high definitions for the simple reason that there is no end to it.  If at any given point in the journey you can sit down and really enjoy the music being played, then that to me is plenty high end.  Thankfully, there has usually been a significant period of time passed between Scratch and Itch otherwise, again, I'd struggle to enjoy what I had if I was forever looking for the next horizon.

Peter

I think you have attained "high end" when you have spent more money than you ever would have believed possible and mostly smile as you listen to the music. So my high end may be different to your high end and his high end and her high end and none of that matters.

best

David

It’s all good

Absolutely. Things don’t all need to be defined and categorised. 

I've been reading this thread with a great deal of interest but somewhat less than full comprehension until today when the bulb finally went off: the two-box 272/555DR solution could replace my current cuddly toy XPS > ND5 XS > nDAC + cuddly toy XPS > 282 + HCDR (& NAPSC of course) - all playing into NAP 300DR and Davone Grande speakers.

In other words 2 boxes in place of 7!  As Homer (the American, not the Greek) would say: "Doh!"

But what about sound quality?  To hear HH tell it it might well even be an upgrade...

And that is indeed the question.  I had hoped to eventually go with an NDS/555DR in place of the digital source above, keeping the 282 + HCDR, but still a 272/555DR combo is half that solution's box count at considerably less cost.

As Thoreau said, "Simplify, simplify!"

What do you think, HH?  I seem to remember that you've had a 282 in the past; from a sound quality perspective would this be a sound decision?

Would anyone else like to chime in?  All informed opinion would be most welcome.

It’s hard to say. I’ve never owned a 282, only an 82. I’ve owned a 552 though, and the 272/555 is not that far behind. I certainly wouldn’t want seven boxes when two could be nearly as good, if not as good, or perhaps even better. 

Audition, I know HH doesn’t always bother but he’s confident he knows where he’s going. A home audition, long enough to come to a decision, is the best way to sort out whether a 272 is your answer, with a 555ps if that is an option (it’s definitely not cuddly).

well a 272 isn't a 282. would I replace my 282/HCDR with a 272 based system, no.

and a cuddly toy isn't a Naim PSU, especially on the NDAC where it would power the output stage. You're better off buying his DAC instead.

I'd replace the toy PSU on the NDAC with a PS555DR.

IMO you can't just conclude on that 282 will sound better in that system, just because it's better on it's own? Among 272's strenghts is the synergi between the streamer- preamp and of course the simplicity. When you add several boxes to a system such as Tallan, the chance to fail on something increases, again IMO.

well the 272 does prevent some issues like multiple toy PSU being used.

If funds allows, I would much rather have a NDS/555DR with a 282/HCDR.

How much better than a 272/555DR, oh well, that is another issue.....

yes more boxes  = more things that can be potentially set up/wired/powered incorrectly.

From nd5/ xps/dac/xps/282, I would rather have 272/ps. That said, I fully agree on the NDS approach, but to another cost and if I should be an example, I sold my NDS for a 272 based system and have not looked back. 

Stover posted:

I sold my NDS for a 272 based system and have not looked back. 

Thanks so much for this.  But could you go into a little more detail about the differences between the two systems to your ears?  I'm very much of a mind to make this switch but have no opportunity to demo myself as I live in Maine and my dealer is in New York City and doesn't carry the high-end Naim gear in stock anyway - he's much more of a tube guy.  Any insight you can share comparing the sound quality of the two systems would be extremely useful in helping me make up my mind.

And sorry, HH, if I've hijacked your thread.  My dilemma IS directly related, tho.

I’m a little confused. Your profile says you have a 272 in the bedroom, so surely you can simply try it in your main system. You could also think about rationalising your vast array of equipment and maybe building something really, really good. 

Hungryhalibut posted:

I’m a little confused. Your profile says you have a 272 in the bedroom, so surely you can simply try it in your main system. You could also think about rationalising your vast array of equipment and maybe building something really, really good. 

You're absolutely right, Nigel - rationalizing my unwieldy main system is exactly what I'm after.  Hopefully something "really really good" is what we're talking about.

As for the 272, I do indeed have one with an XPSDR into a 250DR (sound familiar?) so I'm very well acquainted with its sound quality.  I do not have a 555DR power supply, however, and no way to borrow or demo one.

I also have, most unfortunately, four herniated disks in my lower back and am advised that I should not lift or carry anything greater than ten pounds for the rest of my life, which means the swapping in and out of Naim boxes, especially amps & power supplies, is verboten.

So those are my constraints.  Money, of course, is another, to a greater or lesser degree:  it can be had, within reason.  Space is another: one reason for the cuddly toys is they are half the width or less of the genuine Naim gear, and all I have room for.  Going from 7 boxes to 2 on the digital side would be a huge step in the right direction.

Given all that, how would you rationalize my system to build something really really good?

PS:  How's your 300DR running in?

I’d get an NDS, 555PS and a 552 to go with the 300, and downsize the bedroom system to bridge the funding gap if necessary. Six boxes in total.

It’s all running in very nicely and is much more relaxed sounding this week. 

Hungryhalibut posted:

I’d get an NDS, 555PS and a 552 to go with the 300, and downsize the bedroom system to bridge the funding gap if necessary. Six boxes in total.

 

I wish I could, but that's way beyond even the most liberal budget I could entertain.  The bedroom system isn't something I'm willing to downgrade, and unfortunately even if it was here in the States I'm afraid used Naim gear takes a heck of a wack in depreciation.

An option I've thought of, dreamed more like, is waiting for the perhaps mythical 372.  That would ring all bells, I'd imagine, but when... and if???

Waiting for a 372 is a bit like waiting for a number 6 bus in my part of the world! I always end up walking.

Tallan posted:

Hungryhalibut posted:

I’m a little confused. Your profile says you have a 272 in the bedroom, so surely you can simply try it in your main system. You could also think about rationalising your vast array of equipment and maybe building something really, really good. 

You're absolutely right, Nigel - rationalizing my unwieldy main system is exactly what I'm after.  Hopefully something "really really good" is what we're talking about.

As for the 272, I do indeed have one with an XPSDR into a 250DR (sound familiar?) so I'm very well acquainted with its sound quality.  I do not have a 555DR power supply, however, and no way to borrow or demo one.

I also have, most unfortunately, four herniated disks in my lower back and am advised that I should not lift or carry anything greater than ten pounds for the rest of my life, which means the swapping in and out of Naim boxes, especially amps & power supplies, is verboten.

So those are my constraints.  Money, of course, is another, to a greater or lesser degree:  it can be had, within reason.  Space is another: one reason for the cuddly toys is they are half the width or less of the genuine Naim gear, and all I have room for.  Going from 7 boxes to 2 on the digital side would be a huge step in the right direction.

Given the huge array of gear you have, surely getting a dealer round to help you set it up is not much to ask. Perhaps the embarrassment when he sees all those little Israeli boxes would be too much!?

With the streamer, dac, cd player plus their power supplies you have at least 4 shelves available if you lose that lot. You TT is crying out for a superline/supercap too which will need two of them, that leaves room for an NDS/555ps (but only one).

yeti42 posted:

With the streamer, dac, cd player plus their power supplies you have at least 4 shelves available if you lose that lot. You TT is crying out for a superline/supercap too which will need two of them, that leaves room for an NDS/555ps (but only one).

Superline with HCDR already in hand, but also with a hum, likely from being too close to all those other things, another motivating factor in the 272+555DR decision.