Blimey, the 272 is even better than I thought it was...

ChrisSU posted:

Tallan posted:

Hungryhalibut posted:

I’m a little confused. Your profile says you have a 272 in the bedroom, so surely you can simply try it in your main system. You could also think about rationalising your vast array of equipment and maybe building something really, really good. 

You're absolutely right, Nigel - rationalizing my unwieldy main system is exactly what I'm after.  Hopefully something "really really good" is what we're talking about.

As for the 272, I do indeed have one with an XPSDR into a 250DR (sound familiar?) so I'm very well acquainted with its sound quality.  I do not have a 555DR power supply, however, and no way to borrow or demo one.

I also have, most unfortunately, four herniated disks in my lower back and am advised that I should not lift or carry anything greater than ten pounds for the rest of my life, which means the swapping in and out of Naim boxes, especially amps & power supplies, is verboten.

So those are my constraints.  Money, of course, is another, to a greater or lesser degree:  it can be had, within reason.  Space is another: one reason for the cuddly toys is they are half the width or less of the genuine Naim gear, and all I have room for.  Going from 7 boxes to 2 on the digital side would be a huge step in the right direction.

Given the huge array of gear you have, surely getting a dealer round to help you set it up is not much to ask. Perhaps the embarrassment when he sees all those little Israeli boxes would be too much!?

On the plus side my dealer is agnostic when it comes to the origin of power supplies, but on the negative side he's a 10 hour drive away.  Still for a 272 + 555DR sale, as well as the trade ins, it's likely he'd make the trip but I haven't asked yet.  Still trying to decide if it's the right move, sound quality wise.  Certainly with far fewer boxes upgrading cables to SL could happen much much faster.

Well, all I can say is that the 272/555/300 is a huge step above the 272/XPS/250. It must be so frustrating not to be able to just pick up the boxes and move them around. I do wonder whether asking a friend or neighbour to do it for you as a trial might be worthwhile. Our bedroom system is a Ruark Audio R1 radio....

As to the 372, I’m pretty convinced that there will be a new platform 272 around the corner, which may or may not sound better than the 272. As for a better streaming preamp - the 372 or 572 - it depends on whether Naim get get the required uplift in quality from a single box. Commercially it is likely to be a big seller; the 272 is one of the most popular classic products and the preamps are selling less well. Why get an NDX/282 when the 272 runs it so close? A better streaming preamp with no power supply and the ability to take both Burndy feeds from the 555PS just makes so much sense. 

In your case, the appeal of going from seven boxes to two, and all those mains wires to just one, seems pretty overwhelming. I say go for it. 

Tallan posted:

Stover posted:

I sold my NDS for a 272 based system and have not looked back. 

Thanks so much for this.  But could you go into a little more detail about the differences between the two systems to your ears?

I went from NDS-555-252-300, then sold down to NDS-555-SN2, then purchased up to  272/xpsDR/250DR.

In my experience, the more complicated, the greater chance to fail. The system also gets more revealing and demanding to the environment, and then all the cables are weak links. I failed to get it right and the total cost was a mismatch versus musical enjoyment. Next, there will always be something better, there's no end to it. 

272/250DR worked immediately in my room and I have no itch to upgrade.... oh well, the 555ps knocked on the door when Nigel upgraded, but the itch faded out so to say.

Systems mentioned are very different, my conclusion is, I don't need an NDS to enjoy music. When there's a balance between musical enjoyment and cost I'm happy.

S

Steinar, you are so right. When I had a bigger system on Fraim it needed a lot of maintenance to get it right, whereas the 373/XPS/250 is far easier to get right, especially on the fit and forget Quadraspire. The 300 that I now have does make it harder to set up, as there are two big fat Burndies that the 250 doesn’t have, and then there are two of the sensitive din to XLR leads rather than just one. I’ve had to buy two extra shelves in order to get all the leads off the floor. It’s a good halfway house between the 272/XPS/250 and the NDS/555/552/300 - the price of which and the number of boxes of which are just too much. 

I think you're going to have to enlist help to physically try out the different combinations. When my dealer installed 272DR/555DR/300DR (speakers were a ProAc K6) in my lounge the resultant sound was pretty disastrous! The same boxes had sounded wonderful in his demo room, but at home the overblown, muddy booming bass was overpowering. All adjustments possible were made, all connections tested and rechecked to no avail. The instant a 250DR was substituted, bliss!! Discussions with Naim and ProAc by my dealer had revealed this was not the first time the 300DR/K6 combination hadn't worked.

My point is, please don't assume because something is theoretically 'better' (and I have no doubt the 300 will outperform the 250 in most situations) it will automatically give an uplift in all circumstances! 

As he already has a 300 in the main system I doubt there will be an issue. 

Hungryhalibut posted:

As he already has a 300 in the main system I doubt there will be an issue. 

Fair point, HH! Brain fart brought on by early time of day - must remember not to post until after breakfast!

I can quite understand. I’m getting used to the world of the retired, where we work to different timescales and have excuses for getting confused. It’s really rather nice. 

Hungryhalibut posted:

I can quite understand. I’m getting used to the world of the retired, where we work to different timescales and have excuses for getting confused. It’s really rather nice. 

Quick thread hijack! Retirement has much to recommend it. Unlike many of my peers, who had difficulty imagining life outside the disciplined environs of the police, I have neither missed work or had any problem filling the hours of the day. Far from feeling guilty about sometimes not waking until 9am, rather than starting every day at 5.30am, I enjoy it as just reward for having endured (and enjoyed) 30 years of shift work and fragmented family life. I now have ample time to enjoy those things constantly placed on the back burner, or forgotten altogether. 

To those unable now, due to changing economic circumstances, to retire as planned, my commiserations. To those worried about how they will fill the days, my assurances there will be no problem - embrace and enjoy!!

Thread returned!

Have been looking for Sofas last week. A 272 is rather cheap in my refreshed perspective. Seriously considering it to feed the snaxo into the naps into the Ovators.

Tallan posted:

Superline with HCDR already in hand, but also with a hum, likely from being too close to all those other things, another motivating factor in the 272+555DR decision.

one thing that would be easy to try is to run your ND5 into your Hugo, then to the 282. if you like what this does, you can disconnect nearly all of the power supplies from your digital chain and get some breathing room for your phono stage. and it is a Superline, yes? (your profile page says Stageline.)

Just to let you know I have not yet had a reply from my email to Naim about a forum visit to Salisbury hq?

Don’t worry, Richard is on the case. 

Thanks HH

Can i come from Turkey?

Emre posted:

Can i come from Turkey?

+1 from Cheshire  

Emre posted:

Can i come from Turkey?

There is a pre-loved CD555 for sale close to London ... just saying ...

Atherton posted:

I'm a 272 user, but not quite in HH's league (yet!). I'm thinking of upgrading my 200DR to a 250DR. Is this upgrade likely to be significant? Is there any other upgrade that I should consider instead for similar ££'s? I'm happy with my PMC 23's. My main source is Tidal. Sorry if this has been already covered elesewhere.

Thanks, Richard

I moved from  200 TO A 250DR, then added a XPSDR. 200 to 250DR is a noticeable and significant upgrade to the sound.

Monkadill posted:

Atherton posted:

I'm a 272 user, but not quite in HH's league (yet!). I'm thinking of upgrading my 200DR to a 250DR. Is this upgrade likely to be significant? Is there any other upgrade that I should consider instead for similar ££'s? I'm happy with my PMC 23's. My main source is Tidal. Sorry if this has been already covered elesewhere.

Thanks, Richard

I moved from  200 TO A 250DR, then added a XPSDR. 200 to 250DR is a noticeable and significant upgrade to the sound.

Thanks [@mention:31273966728598883], that's positive and what I'd certainly hope for. Could you also please share your views on the addition of the XPS-DR after having upgraded to the 250DR?

Atherton posted:

Monkadill posted:

Atherton posted:

I'm a 272 user, but not quite in HH's league (yet!). I'm thinking of upgrading my 200DR to a 250DR. Is this upgrade likely to be significant? Is there any other upgrade that I should consider instead for similar ££'s? I'm happy with my PMC 23's. My main source is Tidal. Sorry if this has been already covered elesewhere.

Thanks, Richard

I moved from  200 TO A 250DR, then added a XPSDR. 200 to 250DR is a noticeable and significant upgrade to the sound.

Thanks [@mention:31273966728598883], that's positive and what I'd certainly hope for. Could you also please share your views on the addition of the XPS-DR after having upgraded to the 250DR?

I went thru the exact same progression some time ago so my memory of the SQ benefits aren't the freshest but I remember at the time thinking the addition of XPSDR was almost as big an improvement as the change in amps: greater clarity, deeper bass, better soundstage.  Speakers are Dynaudio Confidence C1s which really livened up with the 250DR's extra power and grip; the XPSDR added finesse.

Adding the XPS isn’t, to me, about bass and soundstage. It’s about making the music more real, more natural and more engaging. The XPS transforms the 272 into something altogether better. 

Quite a filibuster thread now Nigel

Hungryhalibut posted:

Adding the XPS isn’t, to me, about bass and soundstage. It’s about making the music more real, more natural and more engaging. The XPS transforms the 272 into something altogether better. 

Yes but HOW does it do that?  I mentioned three areas that I remember improving specifically, could have added a greater sense or range of dynamics, all of which to me makes music more natural and engaging.

But better in either case.

I don’t know, because I don’t analyse the sound in that way. What I do know, though, is that the gap between the 272/555 and the 272/XPS is bigger than that between the 272/XPS and the 272 on its own, in terms of pure musical enjoyment. 

I am not an electronics engineer but, studying the Naim tech specs, the only differences I can see between 555PS and XPSDR are the 555PS has a 40% larger transformer (which I presume is necessary to provide the two output supplies versus one), and it comes with a Power Line cable instead of Power Line Lite, Whilst the 555PS is undoubtedly a far superior upgrade to the XPSDR, I'd like to understand why this is the case....in the context of a 272 based system that requires only one external power source.