NAP250DR Demo

I have both NAP 250 DR and NAP 200 non-DR. I used to extensively compare both and the difference was marked when the amps were switched. In my case both amps were connected to the NAC 282 and Hicap DR. Perhaps the Supernait 2 as a preamp is a compromise.

Hi Mark

What pre amp will you be using? 

The dealer did not do a good job trying to get a sale they should have used a 282 or 252.

SN2 pre-amp section is a limiting factor.

The demo was not really carried out properly I'm afraid.

What was the source?

In my experience the 250DR is larger in performance in every respect than the 200.   As chaps have said strange choice of Pre to demo.  

Regards,

Lindsay

I have a NAC 202 Pre-amp +NAPSC + HICAP so was looking to swap my 200 for the 250DR but the performance did not convince me to make the outlay.

The source on the demo was a CD5XS

Money might be better spent on the pre-amp Mark. I'd go 282 before looking at the power amp. What source do you normally use at home ?

I would borrow the 250DR to try at home.

Mark Carwardine posted:

The source on the demo was a CD5XS

 

Ok - I think your dealer didn't really deliver the usual high standard here. CD5XS is a good player in its own right (I owned one for a while). SN2 is a good integrated amp (I still use it in a temporary pre-mode). NAP 250DR is a stellar power amp.

However, I would never even phatom puting all of them togeher as a demo set. I'd call it a decent mullet though

I had a 200DR while my 250 was away for the DR upgrade. The 200DR was still behind my 250 before it was upgraded. Between 200DR and 250DR is a huge difference. 

Source aside, this does seem like a weird way of demoing an amp such as the 250.  it might make sense if you were looking to upgrade from an SN2 and perhaps use it as a pre' on temporary basis, but otherwise seems a bit bonkers.  That said, I am still surprised there was no difference, if even if the source and pre-amp were far from ideal.  What were the speakers used in the demo?

Looks like you need to do a bit more demoing at your dealer’s. What’s the long term plan? Are you planning on doing away with the sn2 when funds allow and have you got plans to upgrade the source?

My source is not the SN2, this was the dealers. I have an LP-12 Turntable and a Unti2 for CD, Streaming and radio.

So why did the dealer use the SN2? Did he not have a preamp to use? 

Mark Carwardine posted:

I have a NAC 202 Pre-amp +NAPSC + HICAP so was looking to swap my 200 for the 250DR but the performance did not convince me to make the outlay.

 

well the 202 isn't a good enough preamp for the 250. I own a 202 and it's not really upto the job of fronting a 250DR

The Preamp in a SN2 is not as good as a 202, so I'm not surprised at the outcome.

When I swapped out my 200 (fronted by 282/HCDR) with a 250DR it took me less than 5 seconds to hear the difference.

the old 200 has a dry character, due to lack of resolution of the high's and while it is fast, it doesn't quite have the bandwidth of the 250 DR.

I would try to invest more money in sources, or going for a 282 instead, first.

Also Hicap DR is a revelation on the 202 but still it won't make it good enough to front a 250DR

If the source and the pre remain the same and only the power amp is swapped why would you still not hear the huge difference you all speak of.  

analogmusic posted:

Mark Carwardine posted:

I have a NAC 202 Pre-amp +NAPSC + HICAP so was looking to swap my 200 for the 250DR but the performance did not convince me to make the outlay.

 

well the 202 isn't a good enough preamp for the 250. I own a 202 and it's not really upto the job of fronting a 250DR

The Preamp in a SN2 is not as good as a 202, so I'm not surprised at the outcome.

 

 

I disagree, the pre-amp section in the SN2 is based on the 552, plus it has the DR technology. The 202 is based on the 112, now the 152XS.  The 202 was designed and introduced in 2002, and while it has no doubt been updated to some degree, the SN2 is a pretty recent design,(2014) with newer technology taken from the 552. 

All things being equal, I would bet that the SN2 pre-amp section betters the 202, that would include my own home demo of the 202-200 against the SN2, whereas the SN2 sounded superior, at least to my ears. 

Mark,

The suggestions above to upgrade your preamp first are on target.  There are several threads where some inexplicably prefer the 200 to the 250, and I think in many cases they are using a 202.  While the 202 is a fine preamp, the 250DR really needs a 282 Hicap at minimum.  If I were you, I would upgrade the preamp and digital source (if that is  important to you) before upgrading the amp.

So why not try a demo of a 282, Hicap, 200 to see what you hear?  Or consider an N272, for which you could trade the 202, Hicap, NAPSC and Unity.  You do not say what phono preamp you use - if it is a Stageline powered through your 202 then you might need to keep the Hicap to power the Stageline.  Your dealer should help with this.  I am guessing you would really like either of those choices.

Charlie

Mark,  I have both.  When I went from 202 (Napsc/Hicap)-200 to 252-250, I tried the 202 with the 250 for a few minutes and in my opinion they don't match. I didn't perceive an improvement at all, I would say I preferred the 202/200. I think the 200 is a great amp, I decided to keep it,  while I traded the 202 in.

Bob the Builder posted:

If the source and the pre remain the same and only the power amp is swapped why would you still not hear the huge difference you all speak of.  

A good power-amp to shine needs a good source and a good pre-amp in the first place.

Please remember it's the pre-amp section of an amplifier that is responsible for the sound. A power amp 'just' makes things 'loud'

Of course there are various ways of makings things 'loud' - hence the different power amps and how they amplify the low voltage signal passed on to them from the pre-section.

But generally speaking - if it's not there in the first place, there isn't much to make 'loud' adterwards 

in fact Adam, you found yourself that even a 282/SCDR was not quite up-to the job of fronting a 250DR - in the end you also upgraded to 252/SCDR.

the 250 DR is a top notch power amp, but will only expose what is in front it. 

Personally I am in denial - but sooner or later I know I'll have to make that jump to 252/SCDR myself.

analogmusic posted:

in fact Adam, you found yourself that even a 282/SCDR was not quite up-to the job of fronting a 250DR - in the end you also upgraded to 252/SCDR.

the 250 DR is a top notch power amp, but will only expose what is in front it. 

Personally I am in denial - but sooner or later I know I'll have to make that jump to 252/SCDR myself.

Actually it wasn't that.

282 and 250 make for a good pair and 282 is very much up to 250 standards.

To me each pre-amp has a different voicing and its own character.

To illustrate the point better - if all pre-amps were the same, all guitar players and bass players would essentially use the same amps. However it's the voicing of the pre-amp section (overdriven tubes, etc) that give each pre-amp its own unique character.
Personally - I use MesaBoogie amps and pre-amps for my basic sound when playing bass and Tech21 SansAmp for my 'dirty' sound.
Technically speaking Orange, EBS, Marshall etc are equally capable and respected manufacturers. But I simply like the sound of MesaBoogie. It doesn't make it better or worse, more or less capable - it just suits my 'ears'.

Hang on a second, so you say a 282/SCDR is not quite up to fronting a 250DR and a 252 is required!!!

Says a lot for the 272 as the ideal partner is the 250DR.