NAP250DR Demo

252.SC is really an ideal preamp to get the best from a 250, but I'm not at all motivated to move from 282/HCDR as everything sounds ideal for what I am looking for (and everyone got different expectations).

I don't really understand the reasons that forum members who don't like the 282, as it does everything that I want perfectly well. Maybe I like the upfront nature of the 282 which suits Rock and Metal music well (that I listen to)

all this kit also performs different with different cables, environments, speakers, mains quality.

even the source to preamp cable can degrade a system... and placement, cable dressing.

Get in there!! Is there a thread in existence safe from the 272? The little bugger gets in everywhere! Just you wait, someone will start an exclusive Statement thread and it'll manage somehow to insinuate itself there.

well 272 is a possible partner for a 250, but I'm never really going to exchange my 282 for a 272 having heard them both at home.  But 272 offers a lot of value for money, the 282 /HCDR is a 5000 + GBP preamp.... 272 does a lot more for less money, so if I did not already have a HCDR... who knows, financially it made more sense for me to buy a 272.

After some point diminishing returns kick in. maybe 272/XPSDR is best value for money.

282/SCDR cost around £8900 I would say this is more than worthy of the 250DR. 

Sorry that I mentioned the 272

if you get the SCDR it is always a matter of time before one buys a 252. Naim know this very very well.

that's why I am staying put with my HCDR 

badlands posted:

analogmusic posted:

Mark Carwardine posted:

I have a NAC 202 Pre-amp +NAPSC + HICAP so was looking to swap my 200 for the 250DR but the performance did not convince me to make the outlay.

 

well the 202 isn't a good enough preamp for the 250. I own a 202 and it's not really upto the job of fronting a 250DR

The Preamp in a SN2 is not as good as a 202, so I'm not surprised at the outcome.

 

 

I disagree, the pre-amp section in the SN2 is based on the 552, plus it has the DR technology. The 202 is based on the 112, now the 152XS.  The 202 was designed and introduced in 2002, and while it has no doubt been updated to some degree, the SN2 is a pretty recent design,(2014) with newer technology taken from the 552. 

All things being equal, I would bet that the SN2 pre-amp section betters the 202, that would include my own home demo of the 202-200 against the SN2, whereas the SN2 sounded superior, at least to my ears. 

Not heard the sn2 but the pre section of the sn1  was significantly short of the 202 when both were powered by a hicap into a 200. The SN2 may be better but not that much. None of them come close to a 282. The LP12 opens a whole new can of worms when it comes to upgrade options but assuming it’s up to scratch and not the current focus that leaves the preamp or possible the phonostage as the most probable targets, the superline powered of AUX2 is a relative bargain.

HiFiman posted:

282/SCDR cost around £8900 I would say this is more than worthy of the 250DR. 

Sorry that I mentioned the 272

it sure is, but then what source in front of a 8900 GBP preamp? and then how is this source connected to this expensive preamp.

the basic lavender is good, but once you hear 2100 GBP Superlumina DIN/DIN extremely difficult to back to the 100 GBP lavender.

So 272 saves you those 2 costs too.

analogmusic posted:

if you get the SCDR it is always a matter of time before one buys a 252. Naim know this very very well.

that's why I am staying put with my HCDR 

Good idea to stick with the HCDR and why not it's a bloody good PSU

The SCDR could be a very expensive road to go down as this leads onto other box temptations.

badlands posted:

analogmusic posted:

Mark Carwardine posted:

I have a NAC 202 Pre-amp +NAPSC + HICAP so was looking to swap my 200 for the 250DR but the performance did not convince me to make the outlay.

 

well the 202 isn't a good enough preamp for the 250. I own a 202 and it's not really upto the job of fronting a 250DR

The Preamp in a SN2 is not as good as a 202, so I'm not surprised at the outcome.

 

 

I disagree, the pre-amp section in the SN2 is based on the 552, plus it has the DR technology. The 202 is based on the 112, now the 152XS.  The 202 was designed and introduced in 2002, and while it has no doubt been updated to some degree, the SN2 is a pretty recent design,(2014) with newer technology taken from the 552. 

All things being equal, I would bet that the SN2 pre-amp section betters the 202, that would include my own home demo of the 202-200 against the SN2, whereas the SN2 sounded superior, at least to my ears. 

How can you compare the SN2 to the 552?

There is still a Naim character when compared to say a Sugden or even a Rega but the comparison to 282 and 552 was made by marketing types and is as meaningful as the term “up to” (a pet hate of mine) which they’re also fond of.

Drewy posted:

badlands posted:

analogmusic posted:

Mark Carwardine posted:

I have a NAC 202 Pre-amp +NAPSC + HICAP so was looking to swap my 200 for the 250DR but the performance did not convince me to make the outlay.

 

well the 202 isn't a good enough preamp for the 250. I own a 202 and it's not really upto the job of fronting a 250DR

The Preamp in a SN2 is not as good as a 202, so I'm not surprised at the outcome.

 

 

I disagree, the pre-amp section in the SN2 is based on the 552, plus it has the DR technology. The 202 is based on the 112, now the 152XS.  The 202 was designed and introduced in 2002, and while it has no doubt been updated to some degree, the SN2 is a pretty recent design,(2014) with newer technology taken from the 552. 

All things being equal, I would bet that the SN2 pre-amp section betters the 202, that would include my own home demo of the 202-200 against the SN2, whereas the SN2 sounded superior, at least to my ears. 

How can you compare the SN2 to the 552?

Easy.  You can compare anything to anything else, there's just little point.  

Mark Carwardine posted:

I did a demo last week at a dealers of a 250DR and used my NAP200 (non DR) as a reference. I was very surprised that their was virtually no difference. The dealer also agreed their was virtually no difference. 

My own back to back findings, going back some years admittedly, is that the 200 tends towards all bass and treble and the 250 sounds similar to the 200 with a loudness button pushed in. I have heard a 250DR at home which exhibited essentially the same presentation but I haven't heard a 200 for a good few years. Purchasing the 282/250 was a much anticipated and planned for occasion for us. We were running much cheaper equipment which was approaching 20 years old. It was such a huge disappointment that we had the old gear refurbished, saving ourselves several thousand pounds. That's how much we weren't convinced.

This puts us in a heretical minority. But we do exist.

Drewy posted:

badlands posted:

analogmusic posted:

Mark Carwardine posted:

I have a NAC 202 Pre-amp +NAPSC + HICAP so was looking to swap my 200 for the 250DR but the performance did not convince me to make the outlay.

 

well the 202 isn't a good enough preamp for the 250. I own a 202 and it's not really upto the job of fronting a 250DR

The Preamp in a SN2 is not as good as a 202, so I'm not surprised at the outcome.

 

 

I disagree, the pre-amp section in the SN2 is based on the 552, plus it has the DR technology. The 202 is based on the 112, now the 152XS.  The 202 was designed and introduced in 2002, and while it has no doubt been updated to some degree, the SN2 is a pretty recent design,(2014) with newer technology taken from the 552. 

All things being equal, I would bet that the SN2 pre-amp section betters the 202, that would include my own home demo of the 202-200 against the SN2, whereas the SN2 sounded superior, at least to my ears. 

How can you compare the SN2 to the 552?

I never compared the SN2 to the 552, what I stated was that it's based on the 552 pre-amp. If you have a problem with what I'm saying take it up with Naim. Below is from the Naim website. And yes, the SN2 pre-amp section is at a whole different level than the SN1.

SUPERNAIT 2 combines an 80W power amplifier with six individually decoupled input sockets and borrows advanced technology from Naim Audio’s flagship preamplifier, the NAC 552. In employing the latest Naim Audio DR (Discrete Regulator) circuits in its power supply, it sits right at the forefront of Naim Audio amplifier technology

You’re quoting sales pitch on a thread where someone is asking advice regarding his demo of a 250. Is that helpful to him?

You made the wrong assumption, not I!!!! Next time read the reply before you chime in.

You chimed in with a comment that made absolutely no sense. Read it again and try and explain to me how it helps anybody. The preamp part of the SN2 is nowhere near what a 552 is.

If only it was

well a 552 got split rail power supply which is capable of completely eliminating noise from the signal earth.

No other Naim preamp is capable of this other than Statement S1, unfortunately. You gotta pay $$$$ for this level of ability.

If you think about this logically it's no coincidence that the first separate pre-power configuration occurs at 202-200.

analogmusic posted:

in fact Adam, you found yourself that even a 282/SCDR was not quite up-to the job of fronting a 250DR - in the end you also upgraded to 252/SCDR.

the 250 DR is a top notch power amp, but will only expose what is in front it. 

Personally I am in denial - but sooner or later I know I'll have to make that jump to 252/SCDR myself.

In my view the 282/SCDR is not only fully capable of fronting a 250DR, it is fully capable of fronting a 300DR. I used that combination for a while and thought it excellent. Of course, the source has to be up to it but the pre-amp definitely is.  

The idea that a 282/hicap is incapable of fronting a 250DR is just silly. 

Hungryhalibut posted:

The idea that a 282/hicap is incapable of fronting a 250DR is just silly. 

Very tactful Nigel

Surely they are each other's natural partners? Work in other combinations but primarily developed to work together. Or perhaps it might be more accurate to say the 282 was developed as a same level partner to the 250? using Hi on the pre.  And they do come across like that to me. As do the 202/200, 252/Super/300 and the 552/500. Although any of these will hook together in a variety of combinations.  I spent some time at home with 152XS/500. I think there was a FC on that too. Worked just fine. Huge fun. Really musical. Loved it - for what it was. Still couldn't wait to get the 552 back. No comparison. Well, apart from working with a power amp to feed some speakers to entertaining effect.

Mmm, all very interesting.  

Going back to the OP's demo, it's clearly the speakers that were rubbish, and unable to communicate the abilities of source, pre-amp, and either power amp.  Speakers are like rally co-drivers, they can't make a rubbish driver win a rally, but they can definitely screw it up for the best in the world and everyone in between. ;-)

The Strat (Fender) posted:

Hungryhalibut posted:

The idea that a 282/hicap is incapable of fronting a 250DR is just silly. 

Very tactful Nigel

Well, people really do spout complete bollocks sometimes.