Physical Positioning of NAS

I’d put the nas next to the NDX , connected via a switch, then if at all possible run a cable to the router. I’ve recently added a 20m meicord to avoid using a powerline adaptor. 

What you want to do is connect the NDX and the nas to a switch, and then the switch to the router. 

Hungryhalibut posted:

What you want to do is connect the NDX and the nas to a switch, and then the switch to the router. 

  jus' like that  

It's really simple, the switch needs to be the centre of the network,  you do not need another switch,  ethernet cables are good for 100m,  & I would do all possible to avoid powerline adaptors.    

JohnA posted:

My router is in a different room and about 15 metres away from my NDX. My NAS (ReadyNAS102) is connected to the router via a Netgear GS108 switch and both are located close to the router. The NDX and router are connected to each other and to the Internet via Powerline Homeplugs. My question is whether moving the NAS and adding another switch close to the NDX would reduce the possible impact of mains disturbance or does the stream from the NAS travel to the router and then to the NDX so that the NAS would then in effect be 30 metres from the NDX so best to leave it where it is?

I suggest having your NAS away from your audio equipment... say in your study or equivalent. I think mains disturbances are effectively irrelevant, but noise and clutter is probably more of concern. Even though modern NAS such as the 102 are almost silent .. there is still often a clatter  of read head stepper motors when accessing data.

As far media transfer, assuming you have everything in the same subnet which is almost certainly the case, then the data will travel via the switch and not via the router.

As far as distance, Ethernet twisted pair is good for 100 metres for each segment.... more than ample for most houses.

Many thanks Simon. My router, switch and NAS are all within inches of each other in my study. The switch is there because I have an Arlo camera hub and an Owl Power Use Monitor hub also in the study. The switch is also connected to a Powerline Homeplug and the NDX is connected to another Homeplug in my lounge. I could run an ethernet cable through my loft (bungalow) but it's a big job unless the improvement is going to be significant.

I am aware of harshness in many recordings (Classical, and particularly choral works) and am investigating whether that can be improved. Just learnt from this forum that wav might be better than flac and am also experimenting with changing the format on some examples, first impressions suggest there is some improvement.

Well I am afraid as far as I concerned I consider home-plug devices the spawn of the Devil. You are better off running a regular Ethernet cable.... less RF noise by quite a margin and massively reduced mains disturbances, and more efficient and reliable network communication... the Naim devices are really designed for either Ethernet or WLAN. With Power-line devices think cheap SMPS and multiply the effect by several magnitudes...

Simon

JohnA posted:

 The switch is also connected to a Powerline Homeplug and the NDX is connected to another Homeplug in my lounge. I could run an ethernet cable through my loft (bungalow) but it's a big job unless the improvement is going to be significant.

Hi, 

Having recently run an ethernet cable via the loft, I can't really say whether there has been any real improvement in SQ, but I was persuaded by the arguments in favour, put forward by various forum members, to overcome my inertia, and set to with the power drill.

Here's the recent thread on the whole homeplug question.

https://forums.naimaudio.com/to...pectation-management

Interesting discussion via your link, thanks Dave. I expect I will eventually have to bite the bullet and install ethernet cable. How did you terminate your cable i.e. wall mounted points?

I guess another factor is the quality of the Powerline plugs, some might be more virile spawn of the Devil than others?! Mine are Solwise 1200AVs. 

JohnA posted:

Interesting discussion via your link, thanks Dave. I expect I will eventually have to bite the bullet and install ethernet cable. How did you terminate your cable i.e. wall mounted points?

I guess another factor is the quality of the Powerline plugs, some might be more virile spawn of the Devil than others?! Mine are Solwise 1200AVs. 

It's not the quality of the Powerline plugs John - it's the concept that is the problem, especially from an RF perspective. I'm still amazed that these ever got approved in the first place !

JohnA posted:

Interesting discussion via your link, thanks Dave. I expect I will eventually have to bite the bullet and install ethernet cable. How did you terminate your cable i.e. wall mounted points?

I guess another factor is the quality of the Powerline plugs, some might be more virile spawn of the Devil than others?! Mine are Solwise 1200AVs. 

I simply bought a 50m cable, with terminated ends .............. one end goes into an Apple Airport Extreme base station, which is hooked into the router, the other end goes straight into a Cisco switch in my music room.

I do feel that any improvement is probably in my imagination, as I suggested, it must sound better after a couple of grazed knuckles!

I was using Devolo homeplugs, considered to be the best, but how "good" or "bad" they are, from the point of RFI I couldn't say.

I was simply persuaded that there's probably no such thing as a "good" homeplug. 

james n posted:

JohnA posted:

Interesting discussion via your link, thanks Dave. I expect I will eventually have to bite the bullet and install ethernet cable. How did you terminate your cable i.e. wall mounted points?

I guess another factor is the quality of the Powerline plugs, some might be more virile spawn of the Devil than others?! Mine are Solwise 1200AVs. 

It's not the quality of the Powerline plugs John - it's the concept that is the problem, especially from an RF perspective. I'm still amazed that these ever got approved in the first place !

I'm sure you're right. Solwise quote use of the earth wire, is this likely to make a difference: " It also utilizes MIMO and Beamforming Technology, which unlike other HomePlug AV compliant devices, effectively uses the three wires (live, neutral, and ground) present in your home’s wall wiring, to transmit and receive data while constantly ensuring that it would always be at its peak performance even at poor channels."

dave marshall posted:

JohnA posted:

Interesting discussion via your link, thanks Dave. I expect I will eventually have to bite the bullet and install ethernet cable. How did you terminate your cable i.e. wall mounted points?

I guess another factor is the quality of the Powerline plugs, some might be more virile spawn of the Devil than others?! Mine are Solwise 1200AVs. 

I simply bought a 50m cable, with terminated ends .............. one end goes into an Apple Airport Extreme base station, which is hooked into the router, the other end goes straight into a Cisco switch in my music room.

I do feel that any improvement is probably in my imagination, as I suggested, it must sound better after a couple of grazed knuckles!

I was using Devolo homeplugs, considered to be the best, but how "good" or "bad" they are, from the point of RFI I couldn't say.

I was simply persuaded that there's probably no such thing as a "good" homeplug. 

Did you run the cable over the walls or between the cavity? If I decide to do it I'd like to keep it as hidden as possible and not sure terminated ends would feed through the cavity very easily?

JohnA posted:

james n posted:

JohnA posted:

Interesting discussion via your link, thanks Dave. I expect I will eventually have to bite the bullet and install ethernet cable. How did you terminate your cable i.e. wall mounted points?

I guess another factor is the quality of the Powerline plugs, some might be more virile spawn of the Devil than others?! Mine are Solwise 1200AVs. 

It's not the quality of the Powerline plugs John - it's the concept that is the problem, especially from an RF perspective. I'm still amazed that these ever got approved in the first place !

I'm sure you're right. Solwise quote use of the earth wire, is this likely to make a difference: " It also utilizes MIMO and Beamforming Technology, which unlike other HomePlug AV compliant devices, effectively uses the three wires (live, neutral, and ground) present in your home’s wall wiring, to transmit and receive data while constantly ensuring that it would always be at its peak performance even at poor channels."

dave marshall posted:

JohnA posted:

Interesting discussion via your link, thanks Dave. I expect I will eventually have to bite the bullet and install ethernet cable. How did you terminate your cable i.e. wall mounted points?

I guess another factor is the quality of the Powerline plugs, some might be more virile spawn of the Devil than others?! Mine are Solwise 1200AVs. 

I simply bought a 50m cable, with terminated ends .............. one end goes into an Apple Airport Extreme base station, which is hooked into the router, the other end goes straight into a Cisco switch in my music room.

I do feel that any improvement is probably in my imagination, as I suggested, it must sound better after a couple of grazed knuckles!

I was using Devolo homeplugs, considered to be the best, but how "good" or "bad" they are, from the point of RFI I couldn't say.

I was simply persuaded that there's probably no such thing as a "good" homeplug. 

Did you run the cable over the walls or between the cavity? If I decide to do it I'd like to keep it as hidden as possible and not sure terminated ends would feed through the cavity very easily?

I'm in a bungalow too, so I simply punched through the living room wall at skirting board level from the router into the adjacent dining room, up the wall and into the loft.

From there the cable is strung up on the roof trusses to the rear of the house, then down into the music room.

The vertical runs of cable are hidden behind minimal plastic trunking, which I'll paint over when next re-decorating.

I did consider running the cable externally, using the gutter supports, but decided that didn't really want to be running plastic conduit up the brickwork.

The hardest part of the whole job was finally getting motivated to make a start .......... but that's just me! 

JohnA posted:

james n posted:

JohnA posted:

Interesting discussion via your link, thanks Dave. I expect I will eventually have to bite the bullet and install ethernet cable. How did you terminate your cable i.e. wall mounted points?

I guess another factor is the quality of the Powerline plugs, some might be more virile spawn of the Devil than others?! Mine are Solwise 1200AVs. 

It's not the quality of the Powerline plugs John - it's the concept that is the problem, especially from an RF perspective. I'm still amazed that these ever got approved in the first place !

I'm sure you're right. Solwise quote use of the earth wire, is this likely to make a difference: " It also utilizes MIMO and Beamforming Technology, which unlike other HomePlug AV compliant devices, effectively uses the three wires (live, neutral, and ground) present in your home’s wall wiring, to transmit and receive data while constantly ensuring that it would always be at its peak performance even at poor channels."

The problem is that whatever they claim to do, the house mains wiring acts like a transmitting antenna and turns your house into a reasonably wide band transmitter which is really not a good idea. Hardwiring, although more of a pain to install than the quick home plugs, is a better long term solution

Many thanks to all who have replied. I have found the replies very useful. One final query - have now discovered 'ethernet over coax adapters'. My bungalow does have a network of tv coax points and it seems these can be adapted to carry ethernet traffic - details at: http://www.oncoax.com/buynow/e...x-adapter-wi-fi.html Sounds a possible alternative solution to the RFI problem? But!!!

An alternative to running long ethernet through roof/cellar/brick walls - might not suit everyone,  but keep it in mind.    I avoided running an ethernet from my router up & over the ceiling cavity & through 2 brick walls by having BT move the house telephone entry/assess point.    They removed the second line & all the wiring to various extensions - which BTW can be broadband killers so avoid, or at least get them correctly wired - & ran a new cable around the house to where I wanted the phone/broadband access point.    Now I have the router & all the audio just were I want it.     Like I say,  it might not suit everyone,  but its another way to skin a rabbit.

Thanks Mike. I did have telephone points all around the bungalow, which did cause broadband problems, so had them disconnected and settled for one, plus cordless phones. Your solution is an alternative certainly though I would have difficulty accommodating the router etc in the lounge.

Johna,  its surprising what a small cabinet will house.  Mine houses a Synology 214 NAS,  network switch & a UPS.  The already very quiet NAS is now behind a closed door.   Screwed on the back is the SMPS power strip.   Exiting from the cabinet is ethernet to NDX,  also to TV & study (via the wall).  The broadband/wireless hub sits on top.  - the Eli is the antenna for good karma.  

Mike, you're right it is an option and I'll keep it in mind. Thanks for your help

I currently have my NAS directly connected to the router on the first floor of my home. The ND5XS is located on the second floor and also directly connected to the router with a 20 meter ethernet cable. This set up has worked without any issues up to this point.

In an attempt to make an improvement I recently purchased a CISCO SG110D-05 5 port Gigabit Desktop Switch to connect to the router. I can a cable from the router to the first port of the switch, then a cable the cables from the  ND5XS and NAS into the second and third ports of the the switch and nothing worked. 

Is there a published list of network switches that work?   Should the SG110D-05 switch have worked? Any comments are welcome.

That should have worked. That’s the switch I’ve had running till recently with no issues at all. Just changed to a Cisco 2960 8tc which brought subtle audible improvements. 

Finkfan posted:

That should have worked. That’s the switch I’ve had running till recently with no issues at all. Just changed to a Cisco 2960 8tc which brought subtle audible improvements. 

Thanks for taking the time to reply.

After reading your comments I went back down stairs and unboxed the switch and plugged in the cables one more time and then went back up stairs and I could play music from the ND5XS using the NAS and streaming from TIDAL!

Another case of USER error!

Ah, great news! 

seakayaker posted:

Should the SG110D-05 switch have worked? Any comments are welcome.

OK good to read you have it fixed.    The Cisco SG110-05 does work I can assure you,  I have one.   I suspect you did not power it up correctly,  as an unmanaged switch it needs to be 'introduced'  to the network partners correctly. 

A quick way to connect -  with everything powered up,  power the switch,  insert the ethernet to/from the router & see how the LED reacts, then one at a time for the other two,  each will have a LED reaction change.   

However I suggest doing the same thing but maybe a better fix all & including resetting the router DHCP & other confusion it might have:    don't disconnect anything,  power off everything then wait 5 mins for the ISP to recognise the router is off line,  first re-powered the switch,  then the router (wait & let it finish) then the NAS (wait & let it finish)  then ND5.   

Mike, thanks for the reply. I had the opportunity to follow your instructions and powered down the ND5, NAS, router, then switch. I waited the five minutes plus and then powered up the switch, then the router, giving it a couple of minutes, then powered up the NAS before moving back up stairs and powering up the ND5. I then tested steaming music from the NAS, then tested streaming music from Tidal and everything is working.

I am hoping to improve the stability of my network.

Once again, thanks to both you and FINKFAN for your replies. 

OK,  glad to help.   I always use that power up sequence when I power off during away from home times (as I will be doing today).   Much like the audio switch on sequence, source, pre & finally power amp switch on,  there is a right way,  so why not.  

The Cisco SG110 is a nice little unit,  I changed mine from a Netgear GS105,  I don't hear a change in SQ, or at least I'm not prepared to imagine I hear something,    but it does do something differently with the NAS LED flashing patterns,  so its different for sure.  All I see different is the RAM is 128MB on the Cisco compared to 128KB on the Netgear.