272/555DR vs. NDX/555DR/282

Upgrade the amp to a 500DR without it, music is essentially broken, but.... a person wouldn't know unless they tried and then put the old amp in place- The 272 plus 555PS is 95% of the best out there.  

If however you want a less expressive sound, then step-backwards to one of the older pre's. Which is not the way to go.

The 272, 555PS is the old Naim sound and the only combo on the market that currently sounds 'right'

Essentially the combo above, is subjectively 97% a Nac 52 and Supercap with 135's, which was tuned for real music, Anything before DR is weird in comparison to Olive and the corrected back boxes - 

not sure what you mean Redalphabet, confused? Maybe it's been a long day for me, so would appreciate more explanation

Anyway I'm very happy with my 282/HCDR....

Having recently - two days ago - got a 300, and having  owned 82s and 252s in the past, I’d be inclined to get a 300 and wait to see what the new platforms bring to the table. The 272, 555 and 300 is capable of a quite extraordinary performance and I wouldn’t change it unless I could get an NDS and a 552. Which I can’t. And from what you say, you can’t either.

As for the idea that music sounds broken without a 500, that’s just silly. 

redalphabet posted:

Upgrade the amp to a 500DR without it, music is essentially broken, but.... a person wouldn't know unless they tried and then put the old amp in place- The 272 plus 555PS is 95% of the best out there.  

If however you want a less expressive sound, then step-backwards to one of the older pre's. Which is not the way to go.

The 272, 555PS is the old Naim sound and the only combo on the market that currently sounds 'right'

Essentially the combo above, is subjectively 97% a Nac 52 and Supercap with 135's, which was tuned for real music, Anything before DR is weird in comparison to Olive and the corrected back boxes - 

Sorry but that’s all tosh.  In my opinion the NDX/555/282 is more musically engaging but the 282 needs at least a HC so the box count is double and of course expense greater. 

The OP has of course to audition for himself.  

Regards,

Lindsay

Of course, every reply since is tosh, of course. The difference between the 500DR and 300DR is staggering if you have the ears to hear it. The 282 and Hicap, may be perfectly fine but...things have moved on a great deal.  

To get the most out of his combination is to get the most sound quality from it - and that is with a 500DR. Music literally sounds so much subjectively better with a 500DR over a 300DR its a joke to suggest otherwise. The 252 is poor as is the 282, its either a 52 or a 272 and a 272 is much closer than those who have not heard the difference even know.

The words appear to be English, but there the similarity with our language ends. I really don't have a clue what Redalphabet is talking about!

I’m giving up on this one.   

HH, congrats, what happened to the “3-box system”-approach?

But I’m glad you bought it! 300 is THE sweat spot regarding Naim NAPs if you ask me. 

Now you just some Chord Music...

//Jonas

So we all need 20k to make our systems sound listenable? All of a sudden I’m disappointed with my 300dr, 552dr, NDS, 555dr. Don’t anyone tell him I have S400s

I've only got a 250DR and one of those poor 252s. 

Gotta get me a 52 or a 272 with a 500DR if I am to have any chance of enjoying music I guess.

I think Hungryhalibut gave you the right advice given your current set of boxes. NDS would be a great source, but it also would mean that you need to at least move to 252 pre-amp to sufficiently benefit from it. A 300 would be a great upgrade in your current setup.

Thank you for your answers!  I chose this setup two years ago and only listened to systems around this price range. After I saved the money for a 555PS DR I was very happy having the opportunity to upgrade within the same system without selling and re-buying any NAIM units. I'm just curious if a NDX/282 or even NDS/252 combo with let's say a 300DR would far outweigh a 272/555? As I do not have the money yet to upgrade to an NDS/used 552 which I once heard and astonish me greatly, I don't want to bother dealer setting up these systems without a purchase intention. Therefore I'm very interested in your experiences.  

As I said before the 300DR sounds very interesting and I will definitely try to demo it soon.

the 500 is out of question as it's above my budget. I'm still curious if anyone has ever compared these setups? 

I have heard 272/555DR/300DR recently at a dealer demo day and very impressive and musical it was too.

But I own NDS/252/250DR, having moved in stages through the Classic range. It is impossible for me to compare the 272 based system to my NDS based system as they were in different rooms, with different speakers, playing different music and could not be auditioned at the same time. I  can say that both systems are superb but the 272 probably offers a little less flexibility. That of course is a good thing if you don't want to be on an endless upgrade treadmill.

You could swap the 250DR you currently have for a 300DR and call it a day. Or you could go down the separate streamer pre amp path which is the how I proceeded. As you can't go for NDS/252/552 territory yet, it probably means going for NDX/282/HiCapDR first and trading in your 272/555DR. Your best bet is to compare a NDX/282/HiCapDR/250DR with your 272/555DR and a 300DR preferably both at home. You will of course need a very obliging dealer, failing this you can take your kit into a dealer and do the comparison there. Of course a dealer may have all the kit to compare both systems. This will give you an idea of how you might proceed.

A lot depends on whether you feel you might want to upgrade in the future or if you want to stop the upgrades with one more purchase - i.e. a 300DR on your existing 272/555DR.

In a way... good source > good preamp > poweramp.

I like the simplicity of 272 + PSU + NAP250 or NAP300. I like it so much, that I may trade in my trusted NDX and SN2 which recently grew to a 5-box system (things got slightly out of control...)

I think the 282 has buffered Tape-out, and the 272 is not buffered.  I am told buffered is better for serving a second zone, if that matters to you, now or in future.

David Dever might elaborate, if he is listening.

Nick

interesting thoughts from red alphabet. Still not quite sure what he means, but it's been a long day for me.

I think it's important to have some rationality in these discussions, as we overseas (non-UK) don't always get the chance to audition 500 series kit.

It is not right to say that music only sounds live on a 500 DR and it doesn't on a 300DR.

It is also not right to say that 282 and 252 aren't good enough next to a 272 or 52/252.

While everyone is entitled to their opinions, one should keep in mind the sage and wise advice of our Moderator who always advised "source first" matters most.

Over the years I've had the good luck to test many combos of Naim, and always found that Richard Dane advice is sound, and one ignore's that at his own wallet peril.

while the 500 DR is quite a unique amplifier as it (alone) is a bridged amplifier, an amplifier is not an alchemist.  It cannot turn a poor source into very good one.

The magic in any system in my ears happens at the source level. If it isn't there to begin with, the amp, cables and speakers cannot improve on a poor source. People listen for different things, but I am talking about engagement, musicality, emotions in the music, that something special that we hear when we listen to live music with great musicians.

So I would rather have a truly great source like a Klimax Lp12, NDS/555/555 or a Chord Dave (with Blu2 upsampler) with a more modest Naim amplifier than a entry level source with a very expensive Naim amplifier. That expensive amplifier needs a source at that level, and that's what many people either run out of money or don't think it's important. 

YMMV, it's my opinion....

Good points analog,and I have heard the Dave/blu2...incredible combo.The same can be said about money spent on electronics VS speakers,I find that better electronics driving cheaper(value wise) Speakers is much better than cheap electronics driving expensive speakers.Myself though,I think I have a well bananced system in general,although I spent way more on the gear than the speakers.

Just get a 300DR and wait for the 372..... Unless you go NDS/555/500s and spend a fortune, you are at the sweet spot! 

Don't underestimate the SL cabling impact, SL speaker cables effect almost matches the power supply effect in my opinion, i can not say the same thing about DIN/XLR.

I still quite like NACA5, but I don't like the old Naim DIN/XLR at all.

It's just occurred to me - whatever happened to the 'source first' fixation normally prevalent on this forum? Everyone's suddenly jumping on the 300DR bandwagon, with not a thought for the poor old source (although I suppose almost trebling the price of the 272 might count, with the addition of a PS that only a few months ago many were mocking). The fickleness of hi-if nuts, eh?

Just a thought!!

mutual admiration, just a thought?

Timmo1341 posted:

It's just occurred to me - whatever happened to the 'source first' fixation normally prevalent on this forum? Everyone's suddenly jumping on the 300DR bandwagon, with not a thought for the poor old source (although I suppose almost trebling the price of the 272 might count, with the addition of a PS that only a few months ago many were mocking). The fickleness of hi-if nuts, eh?

Just a thought!!

I think that source first is still alive and kicking in this thread. The 272 is extraordinarily able, which enables it to front systems that have a lot hanging off it. I certainly would not have got my 300 had I not added the 555 to the 272 first. You talk about people mocking the idea of the 555 on the 272, which is not something I observed. You went for it, as did others, regardless of this alleged mocking.  And as I’m finding out, it’s a very good move indeed. 

Indeed I did Nigel, and at the time definitely felt it was 'against the flow' (not that that is something that has ever bothered me). My memory is not, nor has it ever been, good enough to quote verbatim, but believe me there were more than one or two contributors who were quite sniffy and sarky over the teaming of a high end PS with the 272. As you know I was also fully intending to acquire the 300, again a minority view, until demoing it at home removed it from the equation. 

None of this matters a jot, of course, other than to provide me with a momentary flash of wry humour as I observe 180° manoeuvres adroitly performed!

Thanks again! Being new to this forum and owner of a NAIM system for only 2 years please have patience with me not knowing all the previews conversations.

Did any of you owning a 272 compare it to a 282/NDX before? Did you demo it from the beginning with a PS?

To go for a 300DR sounds logical as it would be the better power amplifier in any case, no matter which path I'm following next. I'm hoping that the 555PS is 'future proof'regardless of whether it's going to be a 272 successor or NDS/NDS successor. And of course I can improve the interconnects, ethernet cables etc. which I will do anyway. The DIN to XLR SL interconnect is fortunately the same for a 272/300 and 252(552)/300.

But please don't get me wrong: first of all I posted this threat out of curiosity about if the 272/555 would be comparable to a 282/NDX or even NDS, as the NDS needs at least a 252 to sufficiently benefit from it, and not as a pure purchase advise.

Talking about a '372' -I've had a conversation not to long ago about future NAIM streaming products with a NAIM dealer working and knowing the brand for many decades and he said from what he has heard it might take quite a while until new products will be released as the Uniti series claimed most of their capacity.