Hi folks,
I'm a bit frustrated regarding the NDS...
I have done everything right regarding the streaming solution:
NDS + 555PS DR + Netgear switch (+iFi iPower) + UnitiCore + Chord Sarum T ethernet cable (to the NDS) + Chord C stream ethernet cable (to the UnitiCore).
It all seems to work nice and lovely but when I put a cd, any cd, on my CDS-2+555PS DR it just blows away the NDS in terms of musical enjoyment, clartiy, naturalness, engagement, black backgrounds, etc, etc...
The NDS is nice, always nice, but just nice. Rock sounds pretty good, some jazz too, but in classical music, there in no comparison - the CD-player is better.
The CDS2 is so much better that sometimes I prefer to listen to it via the Nait XS2 (+Kudos S20) instead of the 500 series system (+Kudos 707) + NDS - Insane !!!
Any thoughts? or it should be so?
Kind Regards,
BP
nonetheless the point stands - the buffer should be sufficient to isolate the network
I'm not qualified to answer, but we have others on the forum who might be. I can imagine however that internet/phone/SMPS noise on the data stream carrier (which is analog) could add a level of unbalanced delay or skew that affects some element, such as timing or smearing, of the data stream.
Out of my depth here but doesn’t the buffering argument justify the position of those that argue that transports etc and digital cables can’t influence the sound? The 1 and 0s arrive and the DAC does it stuff?
But as I say I’m far from knowledgeable.
Regards,
Lindsay
BPhotographer posted:French Rooster posted:Mr Underhill posted:Hi BP,
Glad you got this sorted - as I said digital is incredibly, painfully, sensitive.
I may have missed it - how would you compare and contrast the two now?
A thought: The media bridge the FR suggested may still be the answer, assuming you still want to have an internet connection.
As I mentioned above I shelter my digital back end behind an Isolation Transformer and I find this very effective. I also have another device downstream of the media bridge to try and block hash from the network reaching my digital front end.
I think you may find further attention to detail will pay dividends.
M
as i don’t use tidal, maybe this dedicated hifi switch is the best solution. I didn’t know now if all my network isolation with optical bridge is better or the same or worse vs a dedicated hifi switch. I am now confused.
From my commercial router, there is only the phone and the tv box which are connected. But my tv box is switched off when i listen to the music. Then from this router is connected my cisco 2960 dedicated switch ( to nds and unitserve). Between the cisco and the nds i have the optical bridge with high quality linear ps.
So what to think now about this new solution for me( dedicated hifi switch)?
I'll try to explain slowly.
You don't need internet connection in order to play from UnitiServe to NDS. What you do need is router + switch (you don't need the switch but it's better for SQ).
Your Cisco can be a dedicated switch for the system, just plug 1 cable from the router + NDS + UnitiServe.
In my experience, the router which is connected to the switch should be without internet connection for best performance.
So now you have no internet connection for the rest of the house - use another router...
BP.
yes, i understand now, thanks. But you still find, with your wifi router solution, than the nds is not better vs the cds2/ 555dr. just different .... The good thing is that is much better vs your past connection ( ethernet to the router).
For myself, with my lan router connection and dedicated switch and optical bridge with high quality linear ps, the sound of the nds/555dr is perhaps 3 steps better than my past cdx2/xps2/ powerline. I don’t think the cds2 /555 dr may be 3 steps better than cdx2/xps2.
So i am finally not sure that wifi router is the best way to have the best sound quality in general. But perhaps it is.... I will have to test now your proposition.
BPhotographer posted:Haim Ronen posted:meni48 posted:BP did great, he saved the homeland, now my NDS is worth the investment,,,,,, bravo
Sounds more like saving the planet judging from the input arriving from all three hemispheres..
Does your one and only dealer show up for home installation or is he busy doing miluim all the time?
What town are you guys live in? I am planning a trip to the HL soon and perhaps I could pay your visit.
Haim, come visit me in Ramat Gan when you're in Israel.
CHRISSW19, as HUNGRYHALIBUT said, you don't need internet connection in order to control the NDS via naim app.
There is no connection between Wi-Fi (LAN: NDS, iPad) and internet connection.
BP.
What about me can I come too.
French Rooster posted:BPhotographer posted:French Rooster posted:Mr Underhill posted:Hi BP,
Glad you got this sorted - as I said digital is incredibly, painfully, sensitive.
I may have missed it - how would you compare and contrast the two now?
A thought: The media bridge the FR suggested may still be the answer, assuming you still want to have an internet connection.
As I mentioned above I shelter my digital back end behind an Isolation Transformer and I find this very effective. I also have another device downstream of the media bridge to try and block hash from the network reaching my digital front end.
I think you may find further attention to detail will pay dividends.
M
as i don’t use tidal, maybe this dedicated hifi switch is the best solution. I didn’t know now if all my network isolation with optical bridge is better or the same or worse vs a dedicated hifi switch. I am now confused.
From my commercial router, there is only the phone and the tv box which are connected. But my tv box is switched off when i listen to the music. Then from this router is connected my cisco 2960 dedicated switch ( to nds and unitserve). Between the cisco and the nds i have the optical bridge with high quality linear ps.
So what to think now about this new solution for me( dedicated hifi switch)?
I'll try to explain slowly.
You don't need internet connection in order to play from UnitiServe to NDS. What you do need is router + switch (you don't need the switch but it's better for SQ).
Your Cisco can be a dedicated switch for the system, just plug 1 cable from the router + NDS + UnitiServe.
In my experience, the router which is connected to the switch should be without internet connection for best performance.
So now you have no internet connection for the rest of the house - use another router...
BP.the sound of the nds/555dr is perhaps 3 steps better than my past cdx2/xps2/ powerline. I don’t think the cds2 /555 dr may be 3 steps better than cdx2/xps2.
Do you get the bass slam & weight of instruments from the NDS as much as you get from the CDX2?
Musicality aside, the NDS has plenty of this...
The CDS-2/555DR/Hi-Line is something very very special (Hi-Line is the better match here than SuperLumina IC).
Haven't heard the CDX2/555DR in my system, but heard it in other systems similar to mine, the CDS-2/555DR is miles better.
I must admit that the CDS-2/555 non-DR is a bit aggressive, not natural, lots of dynamics but I preferred the original XPS.
The 555PS DR is another story.
The improvement of the DR on the 555 is huge.
I wonder what it is like to DR'ing the 500?
I love that darkness sound of the 500 non-DR, I noticed that the 500DR is a bit brighter.
BP.
French Rooster posted:BPhotographer posted:French Rooster posted:as i don’t use tidal, maybe this dedicated hifi switch is the best solution. I didn’t know now if all my network isolation with optical bridge is better or the same or worse vs a dedicated hifi switch. I am now confused.
From my commercial router, there is only the phone and the tv box which are connected. But my tv box is switched off when i listen to the music. Then from this router is connected my cisco 2960 dedicated switch ( to nds and unitserve). Between the cisco and the nds i have the optical bridge with high quality linear ps.
So what to think now about this new solution for me( dedicated hifi switch)?
I'll try to explain slowly.
You don't need internet connection in order to play from UnitiServe to NDS. What you do need is router + switch (you don't need the switch but it's better for SQ).
Your Cisco can be a dedicated switch for the system, just plug 1 cable from the router + NDS + UnitiServe.
In my experience, the router which is connected to the switch should be without internet connection for best performance.
So now you have no internet connection for the rest of the house - use another router...
BP.yes, i understand now, thanks. But you still find, with your wifi router solution, than the nds is not better vs the cds2/ 555dr. just different .... The good thing is that is much better vs your past connection ( ethernet to the router).
For myself, with my lan router connection and dedicated switch and optical bridge with high quality linear ps, the sound of the nds/555dr is perhaps 3 steps better than my past cdx2/xps2/ powerline. I don’t think the cds2 /555 dr may be 3 steps better than cdx2/xps2.
So i am finally not sure that wifi router is the best way to have the best sound quality in general. But perhaps it is.... I will have to test now your proposition.
Read the lines
Read between the lines
Read beyond the lines
One thing for sure, Steaming may be more convenient, but Simple?????
For all those NDS users, check out what this Audio Reviewer had to say!
Archived thread:
"Given your question it looks like you see the Melco as an alternate streamer. It's not while you could connect it to a dac and use it that way. It's a audio grade nas which ensures that the music get's delivered in an optimal quality to your NDS - so that you have the best sound.
Tested both the Melcos with NDS for HFN&RR, and had to conclude that a reasonably optmised QNAP with fibre optic isolation did the job just as well with much more capacity – mine's 16TB – and for much less cost. IMHO, of course."
Allante93 posted:French Rooster posted:BPhotographer posted:French Rooster posted:as i don’t use tidal, maybe this dedicated hifi switch is the best solution. I didn’t know now if all my network isolation with optical bridge is better or the same or worse vs a dedicated hifi switch. I am now confused.
From my commercial router, there is only the phone and the tv box which are connected. But my tv box is switched off when i listen to the music. Then from this router is connected my cisco 2960 dedicated switch ( to nds and unitserve). Between the cisco and the nds i have the optical bridge with high quality linear ps.
So what to think now about this new solution for me( dedicated hifi switch)?
I'll try to explain slowly.
You don't need internet connection in order to play from UnitiServe to NDS. What you do need is router + switch (you don't need the switch but it's better for SQ).
Your Cisco can be a dedicated switch for the system, just plug 1 cable from the router + NDS + UnitiServe.
In my experience, the router which is connected to the switch should be without internet connection for best performance.
So now you have no internet connection for the rest of the house - use another router...
BP.yes, i understand now, thanks. But you still find, with your wifi router solution, than the nds is not better vs the cds2/ 555dr. just different .... The good thing is that is much better vs your past connection ( ethernet to the router).
For myself, with my lan router connection and dedicated switch and optical bridge with high quality linear ps, the sound of the nds/555dr is perhaps 3 steps better than my past cdx2/xps2/ powerline. I don’t think the cds2 /555 dr may be 3 steps better than cdx2/xps2.
So i am finally not sure that wifi router is the best way to have the best sound quality in general. But perhaps it is.... I will have to test now your proposition.
Read the lines
Read between the lines
Read beyond the lines
One thing for sure, Steaming may be more convenient, but Simple?????
For all those NDS users, check out what this Audio Reviewer had to say!
Archived thread:
"Given your question it looks like you see the Melco as an alternate streamer. It's not while you could connect it to a dac and use it that way. It's a audio grade nas which ensures that the music get's delivered in an optimal quality to your NDS - so that you have the best sound.
Tested both the Melcos with NDS for HFN&RR, and had to conclude that a reasonably optmised QNAP with fibre optic isolation did the job just as well with much more capacity – mine's 16TB – and for much less cost. IMHO, of course."
Anyone compared a Uniti Core and Melco?
BP.
BPhotographer posted:French Rooster posted:BPhotographer posted:French Rooster posted:Mr Underhill posted:Hi BP,
Glad you got this sorted - as I said digital is incredibly, painfully, sensitive.
I may have missed it - how would you compare and contrast the two now?
A thought: The media bridge the FR suggested may still be the answer, assuming you still want to have an internet connection.
As I mentioned above I shelter my digital back end behind an Isolation Transformer and I find this very effective. I also have another device downstream of the media bridge to try and block hash from the network reaching my digital front end.
I think you may find further attention to detail will pay dividends.
M
as i don’t use tidal, maybe this dedicated hifi switch is the best solution. I didn’t know now if all my network isolation with optical bridge is better or the same or worse vs a dedicated hifi switch. I am now confused.
From my commercial router, there is only the phone and the tv box which are connected. But my tv box is switched off when i listen to the music. Then from this router is connected my cisco 2960 dedicated switch ( to nds and unitserve). Between the cisco and the nds i have the optical bridge with high quality linear ps.
So what to think now about this new solution for me( dedicated hifi switch)?
I'll try to explain slowly.
You don't need internet connection in order to play from UnitiServe to NDS. What you do need is router + switch (you don't need the switch but it's better for SQ).
Your Cisco can be a dedicated switch for the system, just plug 1 cable from the router + NDS + UnitiServe.
In my experience, the router which is connected to the switch should be without internet connection for best performance.
So now you have no internet connection for the rest of the house - use another router...
BP.the sound of the nds/555dr is perhaps 3 steps better than my past cdx2/xps2/ powerline. I don’t think the cds2 /555 dr may be 3 steps better than cdx2/xps2.
Do you get the bass slam & weight of instruments from the NDS as much as you get from the CDX2?
Musicality aside, the NDS has plenty of this...
The CDS-2/555DR/Hi-Line is something very very special (Hi-Line is the better match here than SuperLumina IC).
Haven't heard the CDX2/555DR in my system, but heard it in other systems similar to mine, the CDS-2/555DR is miles better.I must admit that the CDS-2/555 non-DR is a bit aggressive, not natural, lots of dynamics but I preferred the original XPS.
The 555PS DR is another story.
The improvement of the DR on the 555 is huge.
I wonder what it is like to DR'ing the 500?
I love that darkness sound of the 500 non-DR, I noticed that the 500DR is a bit brighter.
BP.
i have much better bass than previously, same dynamics, but much more clarity, refinement, textures...a bigger sound , much more spacious, and with more body and weight.
the cds2/ 555dr is a big step vs cdx2/ xps2, but perhaps not for urgency of the music. But in general it is better. But it is not like going from cd5i to cdx2 or from cdx2 alone to cd555. Today i have the same gap between my past cdx2/ xps2. I am quite sure i have this kind of gap....
But i must try your wifi router solution, perhaps it will give me more satisfaction.
BPhotographer posted:Haim Ronen posted:meni48 posted:BP did great, he saved the homeland, now my NDS is worth the investment,,,,,, bravo
Sounds more like saving the planet judging from the input arriving from all three hemispheres..
Does your one and only dealer show up for home installation or is he busy doing miluim all the time?
What town are you guys live in? I am planning a trip to the HL soon and perhaps I could pay your visit.
Haim, come visit me in Ramat Gan when you're in Israel.
CHRISSW19, as HUNGRYHALIBUT said, you don't need internet connection in order to control the NDS via naim app.
There is no connection between Wi-Fi (LAN: NDS, iPad) and internet connection.
BP.
BP,
I thought you were living in the Holy City. When did you moved to Ramat Gan? we're neighbors..
BPhotographer posted:Allante93 posted:Read the lines
Read between the lines
Read beyond the lines
One thing for sure, Steaming may be more convenient, but Simple?????
For all those NDS users, check out what this Audio Reviewer had to say!
Archived thread:
"Given your question it looks like you see the Melco as an alternate streamer.
{{It's not while you could connect it to a dac and use it that way. It's a audio grade nas which ensures that the music get's delivered in an optimal quality to your NDS - so that you have the best sound.}}
Tested both the Melcos with NDS for HFN&RR, and had to conclude that a reasonably optmised QNAP with fibre optic isolation did the job just as well with much more capacity – mine's 16TB – and for much less cost. IMHO, of course."
Anyone compared a Uniti Core and Melco?
BP.
@ BP, once again thanks for enlightening me.
The Forum at its Best, Informative Mode!
"NAS drive
An external hard drive with a twist! NAS stands for "Network Attached Storage" meaning that once you plug your NAS drive into your {wireless router}, you can fill it with music, movies, even photos and important documents. All of these can then be easily accessed by any other devices operating on the same internet connection - so you can back up all your favourite media, and still get your hands on it without even switching on your computer - ideal for anyone with a wireless streaming system (see Network streamer)."
School is out, I'm tired, Thanks BP!
But here are my notes:
552>252>282>272
The 272 is Digital Streaming Pre-Amp
The performance of an NDS, may be dependent on the context of the System.
A 500 series NDS, may sound superior than an Digital Pre-Amp/NDS.
Rival, or surpass an CD 555, if accompanied with an Melco (NAS)!
Simple, I think not!
I hate Class! LOL!!!!
Allante93!
Hi BP,
Thanks for your description and thoughts: EXACTLY. I think my digital front end is superb, but I also enjoy my LP12/ARO is brilliant as well. They present the music differently and I value both.
In my case a stream from Qobuz which is excellent. My cable modem is connected into my firewall which is then connected to my main CISCO switch via CAT5, and so is galvanically isolated. These devices are all powered by a strip on the ring main. All my digital backend LPSUs are on a separate simple PDU which is separated from my ring main by an isolation transformer.
The digital back-end is connected to the CISCO switch via CAT5 (GI).
The connection to the front end is via a media bridge (FMC > FMC = copper.fibre.copper). This is further supported by an EVO70HD that follows my HiFi switch and is in front of my ultaRendu.
I find this attention to detail works, and is relatively cheap.
M
Mr Underhill posted:Hi BP,
Thanks for your description and thoughts: EXACTLY. I think my digital front end is superb, but I also enjoy my LP12/ARO is brilliant as well. They present the music differently and I value both.
In my case a stream from Qobuz which is excellent. My cable modem is connected into my firewall which is then connected to my main CISCO switch via CAT5, and so is galvanically isolated. These devices are all powered by a strip on the ring main. All my digital backend LPSUs are on a separate simple PDU which is separated from my ring main by an isolation transformer.
The digital back-end is connected to the CISCO switch via CAT5 (GI).
The connection to the front end is via a media bridge (FMC > FMC = copper.fibre.copper). This is further supported by an EVO70HD that follows my HiFi switch and is in front of my ultaRendu.
I find this attention to detail works, and is relatively cheap.
M
Sounds impressive indeed, but I'm a newbie to streaming. and got maybe 60 % of it.
To the point, drove 300 miles to a funeral.
What the heck, why not pay, the local Naim Dealer a visit.
Beautiful, S1>500> $8K Proac
I explained I was tryin to go Active with my Briks, Naim this time around.
He got it, they just got Linn Back!
Naim/Linn Dealer
Anyhow, I explained my lack of Knowledge to Streaming, his reply was:
Beef up your front end!
He explained he Knew a number of individuals who traded their Triple fives in for Streaming!
With what, I asked!
CORE
Simple no wireless garbage!
Simple, sell your Cdx2, or just keep it.
Core>Ndac>282
Said I didnt need a Nds!
Well, is he correct, or what am I missing?
Allante93 posted:Anyhow, I explained my lack of Knowledge to Streaming, his reply was:
Beef up your front end!
He explained he Knew a number of individuals who traded their Triple fives in for Streaming!
With what, I asked!
CORE
Simple no wireless garbage!
Simple, sell your Cdx2, or just keep it.
Core>Ndac>282
Said I didnt need a Nds!
Well, is he correct, or what am I missing?
Your dealer has a point, if you want to try streaming - or at least, ripping and storing CDs rather than playing them, the Core has an excellent SPDIF output which you could connect to a DAC of your choice. It also allows you to explore Hi-Res downloads as an alternative to buying CDs. I would suggest that you sit down and have a proper demo of it, and compare the Core to a streamer such as the NDS, not only on sound quality, but the range of functions it has. A streamer opens up a huge range of listening options that allows you to explore music from a host of online sources, including iRadio and various subscription services such as Tidal. A dealer should be able to let you sit down with an iPad and find out if this is something that appeals to you. If it doesn't, Core/NDAC is a much cheaper option, especially if you can pick up a used NDAC, although then the PSU upgrade bug may strike!
ChrisSU posted:Allante93 posted:Anyhow, I explained my lack of Knowledge to Streaming, his reply was:
Beef up your front end!
He explained he Knew a number of individuals who traded their Triple fives in for Streaming!
With what, I asked!
CORE
Simple no wireless garbage!
Simple, sell your Cdx2, or just keep it.
Core>Ndac>282
Said I didnt need a Nds!
Well, is he correct, or what am I missing?
Your dealer has a point, if you want to try streaming - or at least, ripping and storing CDs rather than playing them, the Core has an excellent SPDIF output which you could connect to a DAC of your choice. It also allows you to explore Hi-Res downloads as an alternative to buying CDs. I would suggest that you sit down and have a proper demo of it, and compare.....
Remember Chris, I live in the US.
This Dealer came in play during an unfortunate 300 mile funeral.
You guys are very fortunate, when it comes to dealer demos!
But back to Class:
Core ~ excellent analog out $2.6K
Ndac~ Naim's best dac. Pre-loved. $2K
Brand new NDS~ $13K
S1>552>252>282~ Marque Separates
NDS:
An external hard drive with a twist! NAS stands for "Network Attached Storage" meaning that once you plug your NAS drive into your WIRELESS ROUTER, you can fill it with music, movies, even photos and important documents. All of these can then be easily accessed by any other devices operating on the same internet connection - so you can back up all your favourite media, and still get your hands on it without even switching on your computer - ideal for anyone with a WIRELESS streaming system (see Network streamer)."
THE DEALER, explained that he no longer plays Vinyl or CDs, but he wouldn't let loose his hard copy CD Mino Cenilo Swamp Alley!
Class is almost done!
Thanks Form!
Anyone else on Naim's Core, as it pertains to SQ, not the convenience of an NAS device.
Allante93!
PS. Thanks Chris SU!
Simplicity vs Convenience
My take~ SOUND QUALITY AT AN AFFORDABLE PRICE!
Uniti Core represents the essence of digital music. It is a seriously powerful machine that will allow you to rip your entire CD collection, store up to 100,000 tracks, serve files to Uniti all-in-one players or other Naim streamers and create a back-up for all of your music. You can also use Uniti Core as a standalone digital source – simply connect it to a digital-to-analogue converter or an amplifier with digital inputs and control playback via the Naim app. Uniti Core is a fuss-free, no-compromise solution to ripping, storing, cataloguing and playing your entire music collection.
Allante93 posted:Sounds impressive indeed, but I'm a newbie to streaming. and got maybe 60 % of it.
......With what, I asked!
CORE
Simple no wireless garbage!
Simple, sell your Cdx2, or just keep it.
Core>Ndac>282
Said I didnt need a Nds!
Well, is he correct, or what am I missing?
Hi Allante,
I no longer use much Naim in my main system. I think that their engineering WRT SMPS/grounding etc is first rate, and so some of the issues I have been wrestling with may well be less for you.
My suggestions, supporting Frech Rooster, wrt BPs system is far more in the line of cheap tweeks, but ones that may well pay off.
My personal view is that to get the best from digital close attention to clean electricity and maintaining traffic integrity pay dividends.
My thinking would be to get the very best you can from what you have before changing major components.
M