NDS is suppressed by CDS-2

BPhotographer posted:

Again, a cheap LG DVD connected to the NDS with naim DC1 cable is much better (and closer) to CDS-2 in terms of musicality, realism, engagement than the Uniti Core with naim DC1 cable to the NDS (or the network solution).
That means it might be something with the CD player itself. It was better eyes closed, eyes opened, sunglasses, etc, etc.

BP.

Have you uploaded the latest firmware and re-done some of the rips with it?

There was an issue with an early version of the rips made by the Core (I was on a blind test panel that compared these to UnitiServe rips). The difference (negative) was clear and audible and in some cases so striking one wondered how was that possible....

I know I haven’t - as yet - engaged with streaming etc but is it really this difficult?

The Strat (Fender) posted:

I know I haven’t - as yet - engaged with streaming etc but is it really this difficult?

Nope. It's not. 

To a point that I have sold my beloved CDX2 + 555 PS few months ago (albeit it went to a good friend of mine) as it was getting almost no use. 

It's now streaming or vinyl in the Z household. 

No, it’s not. People over complicate things. 

My NDS is Ethernet connected using cheapo leads from Toolstation. Maybe it can be bettered with expensive cables but I’m not really interested as it sounds superb. Also it’s on a Fraim with 300dr under it and 552 above it. The power supplies are below all that.  Many people on here would be horrified. You’ve got to go some lengths to make it sound bad in my opinion.

And before anyone starts i’m still trying to get round to getting my lounge extension done which will allow me the space to set up my system a bit better (you should see the speaker positions).

CXF04 posted:

David O'Higgins posted:

My experience was that CD555 (with 2*555) was different, but not necessarily better, than NDS on 16bit material. 24bit made the move a no brainer, for me. And of course the access to the music is the icing on the cake.

David, how much 24-bit material are you accessing? Has it become mainstay of your listening? I ask this because I am also debating NDS as inevitable choice, though I'm quite comfortable with my CDs.

Charles   

Charles, I now buy almost exclusively 24 bit, with the odd secondhand CD where I want something only available in 16 bit. 

I listen to what I want to listen to, rather than being driven by bits, but where I have a 24 bit recording I will virtually invariably prefer it to its 16 bit equivalent. My library of c.2,300 albums is probably approximately 25% HD by now, but I obviously still listen to a lot of  ‘CD quality’ recordings.

Does that answer it?

Maybe something is wrong with his Core?Mine sounds just as good or better than the same CD played in my CD player...it is not a CDS2,but a TEAC,which is still a good player,and Naim themselves use their drive in the Core,Star.

I used my HDX for my background music, when I do serious listening then CD555 were my only choice.  I demo NDS and felt like it has similar character like HDX which are more digital, in other words more detail, resolution but the 'less soul' of the music.

yeti42 posted:

My order is in for a Core but as far as I know I'll have to buy a hard drive to go in it. Is there any advantage in a SSD, say a 2tb crucial mx300 against a spinning disk, perhapse a WD red at around fifth of the price for 3tb?

For backup is a usb drive or two sufficiant or do I need a NAS?

This was Phil Harris's reply when I posted the above last year.

"I wouldn't recommend WD Red (or any "NAS" rated) drives for use in a single drive environment ... typically "NAS" specced drives will have a reduced TLER (Time Limited Error Recovery) setting which, in a RAID environment will ensure that the entire array doesn't get bogged down by extended duration read retries on data blocks that are difficult to read (the block will be generated from the parity data or the mirror) but in a single drive environment then a reduced TLER could mean that you get read errors caused by the drive timing out and aborting the reading of a data block too quickly.

To back up to USB you will need a USB drive that is the same size (or bigger than) the drive you have fitted internally.

Cheers

Phil"

Maybe the internal drive is an issue?

can the moderator please correct the mistake in the thread title.

Hi BPhotographer,

I find that digital elements are INCREDIBLY sensitive to power in two ways:

1. Grounding/earthing; and
2. Noise.

There is a potential third way, leakage currents, but I am yet to be convinced.

I think that French Rooster's advice is good and I will be interested to hear what you find. Underlying that is what you power arrangements are, Can I ask:

1. Where are you based?
2. What did you replace the IFI SMPS with?
3. How do you power your system?
4. How is your network organised?

M

analogmusic posted:

can the moderator please correct the mistake in the thread title.

 

There's a mistake?? 

But seriously, if the OP wishes for the title to be amended then I will do so. But it's for the OP to decide as it's their thread.

Surpassed would doubtless be more appropriate. But suppressed has a certain something. 

Hungryhalibut posted:

Surpassed would doubtless be more appropriate. But suppressed has a certain something. 

And undoubtedly true

Could also be 'opressed' ....

‘Surpassed’ is my reading.

G

Thanks again all.

I don't care about the title as long as everybody understands what I meant. 

I tired the RLI-1 Lan Isolator from Acoustic Revive and found that:
Overall sound is better; More space, more 3D, more weight. 
The best combination was with the Acoustic Revive Lan cable connected to the NDS and the Chord Sarum T Lan cable connected to the Uniti Core (without an Isolator, I have only one for a demo).

The sound is bright, which is not good for my taste, but I get lots of details especially in the mid, which is impressive.

I'm using the Western Digital RED 4TB hard drive in the Uniti Core and tried to replace it for a Western Digital Green 3TB hard drive (because it has no TLER function). The sound became dull, no weight - like I did nothing with cables/Isolator/Linear Power Supply/etc. 
I must admit it sounded very natural though.
For Uniti Core owners - what hard drives do you use?
I'm using the Uniti Core with a Power Line.

It's a tough competition against the CD Player (CDS-2 with 555PS DR and a Hi-Line is a state of the art CD Player, nothing similar to the original CDS-2 with it's XPS).
The NDS still sounds only nice, but with a bigger soundstage and weight, it's not the CDS-2, and even the LG DVD is doing a better job when it comes to putting instruments in-the-room in a realistic way, though It's sound isn't natural as naim's sources.

Maybe the Seagate HD? Maybe another Acoustic Revive Isolator + Lan Cable? I don't know...
Lots of money, lots of tweaks, and it's not the CD Player...

BP.

Mr Underhill posted:

Hi BPhotographer,

I find that digital elements are INCREDIBLY sensitive to power in two ways:

1. Grounding/earthing; and
2. Noise.

There is a potential third way, leakage currents, but I am yet to be convinced.

I think that French Rooster's advice is good and I will be interested to hear what you find. Underlying that is what you power arrangements are, Can I ask:

1. Where are you based?
2. What did you replace the IFI SMPS with?
3. How do you power your system?
4. How is your network organised?

M

Hi,
1. Israel.
2. I have the IFI iPower for the Netgear GS105 switch.
3. In my other apartment the system was connected to a dedicated mains, but I haven't done it yet in the other apartment which the system is currently in.
4. Netgear Router (with Internet) -> Netgear GS105 switch -> Uniti Core / same Netgear GS105 switch -> NDS

BP.

BPhotographer posted:

Thanks again all.

I don't care about the title as long as everybody understands what I meant. 

I tired the RLI-1 Lan Isolator from Acoustic Revive and found that:
Overall sound is better; More space, more 3D, more weight. 
The best combination was with the Acoustic Revive Lan cable connected to the NDS and the Chord Sarum T Lan cable connected to the Uniti Core (without an Isolator, I have only one for a demo).

The sound is bright, which is not good for my taste, but I get lots of details especially in the mid, which is impressive.

I'm using the Western Digital RED 4TB hard drive in the Uniti Core and tried to replace it for a Western Digital Green 3TB hard drive (because it has no TLER function). The sound became dull, no weight - like I did nothing with cables/Isolator/Linear Power Supply/etc. 
I must admit it sounded very natural though.
For Uniti Core owners - what hard drives do you use?
I'm using the Uniti Core with a Power Line.

It's a tough competition against the CD Player (CDS-2 with 555PS DR and a Hi-Line is a state of the art CD Player, nothing similar to the original CDS-2 with it's XPS).
The NDS still sounds only nice, but with a bigger soundstage and weight, it's not the CDS-2, and even the LG DVD is doing a better job when it comes to putting instruments in-the-room in a realistic way, though It's sound isn't natural as naim's sources.

Maybe the Seagate HD? Maybe another Acoustic Revive Isolator + Lan Cable? I don't know...
Lots of money, lots of tweaks, and it's not the CD Player...

BP.

i found the same as you with the acoustic revive but also the contrary of brightness: the sound has more softness, fluidity and is more colorful.  More space also, more body to the instruments.

But i didn’t placed the acoustic revive before the nds but after the router, between the router and the switch.   Before the nds i have the optical bridge.

I recommend you to try the acoustic revive before your switch, and also to use your best lan cable ( chord sarum t) with your nds.  the acoustic revive lan to the core.   I think you have reversed the lan cables vs before(?)

Maybe it will finally please you. If not, the cds2 / 555dr is your favorite source.

BPhotographer posted:

Mr Underhill posted:

Hi BPhotographer,

I find that digital elements are INCREDIBLY sensitive to power in two ways:

1. Grounding/earthing; and
2. Noise.

There is a potential third way, leakage currents, but I am yet to be convinced.

I think that French Rooster's advice is good and I will be interested to hear what you find. Underlying that is what you power arrangements are, Can I ask:

1. Where are you based?
2. What did you replace the IFI SMPS with?
3. How do you power your system?
4. How is your network organised?

M

Hi,
1. Israel.
2. I have the IFI iPower for the Netgear GS105 switch.
3. In my other apartment the system was connected to a dedicated mains, but I haven't done it yet in the other apartment which the system is currently in.
4. Netgear Router (with Internet) -> Netgear GS105 switch -> Uniti Core / same Netgear GS105 switch -> NDS

BP.

I regret to recommend you a good linear ps also to your netgear gs105.  I had exactly the same switch before. After the ifi power and after the linear ps.  The difference between ifi power and a good linear ps is significant : you will have a little more softness, openness and fluidity.

As you live in Israel, i recommend you the teddy pardo.  You have also sbooster, hdplex ( all with 12v dc to your switch).

I know,  it is tiring to try all that, but you are at the end:  all these is to remove the noise from the network,  as Mr Underhill said and experimented also.

BPhotographer posted:

Mr Underhill posted:

Hi BPhotographer,

I find that digital elements are INCREDIBLY sensitive to power in two ways:

1. Grounding/earthing; and
2. Noise.

There is a potential third way, leakage currents, but I am yet to be convinced.

I think that French Rooster's advice is good and I will be interested to hear what you find. Underlying that is what you power arrangements are, Can I ask:

1. Where are you based?
2. What did you replace the IFI SMPS with?
3. How do you power your system?
4. How is your network organised?

M

Hi,
1. Israel.
2. I have the IFI iPower for the Netgear GS105 switch.
3. In my other apartment the system was connected to a dedicated mains, but I haven't done it yet in the other apartment which the system is currently in.
4. Netgear Router (with Internet) -> Netgear GS105 switch -> Uniti Core / same Netgear GS105 switch -> NDS

BP.

linear ps ( 12v) with the netgear gs105 will add softness, fluidity and tone colors....you have the  israeli one or hdplex or sbooster....I had exactly like you the gs105 with ifi power 12v before.

BPhotographer posted:

Hi,
1. Israel.


BP.

Hi,

Just for curiosity, if I may ask, how much does your sound system cost in Tel Aviv?

Regards,

Haim

Hi BP,

I have the greatest respect for Naim engineering. By buying their solutions I think you take a lot of potential issues out of the equation. I would consider:

1. Ensure everything is effectively grounded
Including anything with a SMPS (try to avoid these) or LPSU. John Swenson came up with a simple widget to do this:

I found them effective in my system. You use this between the PSU and the object being powered. The wire goes back to the earth pin and is plugged into the mains. Obviously you need to get the polarity of the wires properly connected and if you are in any doubt get an properly qualified etc etc.

2. Get a simple unfiltered power strip, plug your whole audio system into this;

3. Plug the strip into a correctly specced Isolating Transformer.

You will need to speak to your dealer about this as a plan. In my case my digital back end is in the loft and I follow this plan. My main HiFi (no longer Naim) is plugged into my mains. I have been planning for YEARS to get a dedicated spur/ring put in.

I have found that this had tremendous benefits.

You have some great kit. I think that some of the variability that people describe may well be down to preference, but I suspect that digital is SO sensitive, and pays back on detailed setup, that this may well be in the mix too.

M

BPhotographer posted:

Mr Underhill posted:

Hi BPhotographer,

I find that digital elements are INCREDIBLY sensitive to power in two ways:

1. Grounding/earthing; and
2. Noise.

There is a potential third way, leakage currents, but I am yet to be convinced.

I think that French Rooster's advice is good and I will be interested to hear what you find. Underlying that is what you power arrangements are, Can I ask:

1. Where are you based?
2. What did you replace the IFI SMPS with?
3. How do you power your system?
4. How is your network organised?

M

Hi,
1. Israel.
2. I have the IFI iPower for the Netgear GS105 switch.
3. In my other apartment the system was connected to a dedicated mains, but I haven't done it yet in the other apartment which the system is currently in.
4. Netgear Router (with Internet) -> Netgear GS105 switch -> Uniti Core / same Netgear GS105 switch -> NDS

BP.

try just that: netgear router>acoustic revive >netgear gs105> acoustic revive lan to the core and sarum t lan to the nds.  555dr away from the nds( space or in another rack).

And just before that, just inverse your lan cables( chord sarum to the nds) , with acoustic revive before the nds.  Just to compare.

Thanks.
A friend of mine came yesterday and we heard a few tracks with the NDS.
We then played the Quad 2 monoblock + LG DVD player at the other room.

He said: "I don't want to insult you, but the Quad system sounds better, I feel the music in my body".
I told him: "This system costs like the ethernet cable alone" (in the big naim system).

OK, it's not about the beauty of the sound, or the big soundstage (wide), or the clarity, etc. it's much better with the big naim system, for sure.
It's the CD Player that adds this realistic sound/sense.

If the Turntable is 10, and the CD Player is 8, the streamer is only 3-4 maybe 5.

It's not that you don't hear the same music, but the sense, the presentation, the deep realistic soundstage - it's all smeared in comparison to the CD Player.
If a string quartet is playing throguh a CD Player I can almost touch them, point the two violins the one viola and the one cello, it's all there.
With the streamer it's "almost there", it's floating, no weight (in comparison), sound is coming but without that authoritative presentation of the CD Player.

Hard drives in the Uniti Core does affect the sound quality, hence, may I ask:
What hard drives do you use?

BP.