NDS is suppressed by CDS-2

Well you do not like the nds simple. You can go on tweaking for the last 10 percent of perfection and maybe achieve it but honestly why bother.

Claus

Simple question.   What speakers on the NDS system and what speakers on the Quad system?

Sorry see it's 707s on the main system but the Quad system?

From all the descriptions so far the inevitable result is that the NDS is not doing what you expect in your system. As had been mentioned, there may be something wrong in its set-up in the system - or you find you are just not gelling with its presentation.

I've heard NDS in different systems sound very different to extent that in some I'd just think 'oh that's an NDS' and it was ok but not really pulling my attention and in other systems I'd think 'wow that is impressive - have they changed something?'.

Yet I have a number of friends that seem to have consistent feelings positive or negative about streaming systems in general - the more anti-streaming also tend to be the most pro-Vinyl TT source preference, so presentation may be a lot to do with things too.

Personally I'm on the fence with streaming as I've heard it sound really good and also very dreary-average and usually the latter, but importantly not always. This makes me believe that there is more that has to be got right in a streaming system, as it is a distributed playback chain of multiple interacting elements - whereas the CD player is a box with all it requires inside it. The CD player once designed well is then relatively easy to plonk into a system without the same level of care and attention that streaming seems to require.

You may be able to resolve the problem - as a wild idea try moving the NDS 555PS supply mains plugs, alongside the PreAmp onto a separate distribution block away from the pwer amps and the rest of the HiFi  and plug them in with 555PS farthest up the block away from the mains input and then leave a gap and then plug-in the Pre supply. You may wonder what mains plug-in sequence and geometry has to do with things - but have an experiment and find out. In my own system it is rather more important than I'd like and needs to be right or you get a smeary bland performance.

DB.

I remember when I got my CDS3, it sounded terrible... took it to the dealer and they moved one internal cable a different direction (at the guidance of the factory) and the player sound quality improved dramatically.  There's no doubt that streaming is fiddly and requires tweaks to sound best... but out of the box the NDS should perform far beyond the CDS2.   The OP should get his dealer involved and address the issue head on.  

Chris Bell posted:

.. but out of the box the NDS should perform far beyond the CDS2.   

Why?

The Strat (Fender) posted:

Simple question.   What speakers on the NDS system and what speakers on the Quad system?

 Got the speakers from someone so I don't know which speakers are these... (no title)
Just putted it in the other room in order to check if the power/pre are working, and they are ! (50 years or so, never have been serviced)

Sorry for the horrible iPhone pictures:

BP.

It might have been mentioned — why don’t you ask your dealer to pop in for a listening? Surely he should be able to advise as to whether all sounds as it should...

BPhotographer posted:

 

 Got the speakers from someone so I don't know which speakers are these... (no title)
Just putted it in the other room in order to check if the power/pre are working, and they are ! (50 years or so, never have been serviced)

Sorry for the horrible iPhone pictures:

BP.

Your friend just prefers the Quad?

The Strat (Fender) posted:

BPhotographer posted:

 

 Got the speakers from someone so I don't know which speakers are these... (no title)
Just putted it in the other room in order to check if the power/pre are working, and they are ! (50 years or so, never have been serviced)

Sorry for the horrible iPhone pictures:

BP.

Your friend just prefers the Quad?

Yes.

The Strat (Fender) posted:

Chris Bell posted:

.. but out of the box the NDS should perform far beyond the CDS2.   

Why?

I would guess, having looked at his profile, that since he has an NDS and previously owned a CDS3, he has been able to compare the two. If he prefers the NDS, or if it comes very close to the performance of his old CDS3, then logically his opinion would be that the NDS should easily out perform the CDS2.

Pretty straightforward logic, but I may be wrong.  

yeti42 posted:

yeti42 posted:

My order is in for a Core but as far as I know I'll have to buy a hard drive to go in it. Is there any advantage in a SSD, say a 2tb crucial mx300 against a spinning disk, perhapse a WD red at around fifth of the price for 3tb?

For backup is a usb drive or two sufficiant or do I need a NAS?

This was Phil Harris's reply when I posted the above last year.

"I wouldn't recommend WD Red (or any "NAS" rated) drives for use in a single drive environment ... typically "NAS" specced drives will have a reduced TLER (Time Limited Error Recovery) setting which, in a RAID environment will ensure that the entire array doesn't get bogged down by extended duration read retries on data blocks that are difficult to read (the block will be generated from the parity data or the mirror) but in a single drive environment then a reduced TLER could mean that you get read errors caused by the drive timing out and aborting the reading of a data block too quickly.

To back up to USB you will need a USB drive that is the same size (or bigger than) the drive you have fitted internally.

Cheers

Phil"

Maybe the internal drive is an issue?

I'm glad streaming is so convenient and simple!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Hmack posted:

The Strat (Fender) posted:

Chris Bell posted:

.. but out of the box the NDS should perform far beyond the CDS2.   

Why?

I would guess, having looked at his profile, that since he has an NDS and previously owned a CDS3, he has been able to compare the two. If he prefers the NDS, or if it comes very close to the performance of his old CDS3, then logically his opinion would be that the NDS should easily out perform the CDS2.

Pretty straightforward logic, but I may be wrong.  

Put like that yes but I just read it that the NDS should by default be superior to the CDS2.   

BPhotographer posted:

Thanks.
A friend of mine came yesterday and we heard a few tracks with the NDS.
We then played the Quad 2 monoblock + LG DVD player at the other room.

He said: "I don't want to insult you, but the Quad system sounds better, I feel the music in my body".
I told him: "This system costs like the ethernet cable alone" (in the big naim system).

OK, it's not about the beauty of the sound, or the big soundstage (wide), or the clarity, etc. it's much better with the big naim system, for sure.
It's the CD Player that adds this realistic sound/sense.

If the Turntable is 10, and the CD Player is 8, the streamer is only 3-4 maybe 5.

It's not that you don't hear the same music, but the sense, the presentation, the deep realistic soundstage - it's all smeared in comparison to the CD Player.
If a string quartet is playing throguh a CD Player I can almost touch them, point the two violins the one viola and the one cello, it's all there.
With the streamer it's "almost there", it's floating, no weight (in comparison), sound is coming but without that authoritative presentation of the CD Player.

Hard drives in the Uniti Core does affect the sound quality, hence, may I ask:
What hard drives do you use?

BP.

I think that something must be very wrong with your setup, or the speakers that you are using are simply not up to the job. I may not own a Naim streamer, preferring an alternative brand for my main system. However, I have heard the NDS, and it is a very fine streamer. 

I can assure you that on my system, or for that matter virtually any decent system I have heard, there is no way that an LG DVD player would sound 'better' or 'more musical' than a Naim NDS. 

Perhaps you and your friend have got used to the very warm sound of your replay system, and simply do not like the impact of a better 'source' on that system. 

The Strat (Fender) posted:

Hmack posted:

The Strat (Fender) posted:

Chris Bell posted:

.. but out of the box the NDS should perform far beyond the CDS2.   

Why?

I would guess, having looked at his profile, that since he has an NDS and previously owned a CDS3, he has been able to compare the two. If he prefers the NDS, or if it comes very close to the performance of his old CDS3, then logically his opinion would be that the NDS should easily out perform the CDS2.

Pretty straightforward logic, but I may be wrong.  

Put like that yes but I just read it that the NDS should by default be superior to the CDS2.   

It's not.
That is the reason I kept the CDS-2 when I purchased the NDS (which was far superior to the Chord Hugo).
I have 2x555 DR. I tried that with the NDS and I prefer one PS.

The CDS-2 + 555 PS DR is NOT a CDS-2 anymore. Believe me, I own it for 15 years. Fantastic piece of kit from 1998.
The CD Player is like Leica M6 film where the NDS is like a digital Nikon picture; Nice, informative, sometimes good but nothing similar to the old Leica...

And it's not must to be the CDS-2. Every CD Player I hear is better than any streamer/computer, in my opinion.
The Chord Hugo with Mac (mini and book pro) with USB or S/PDIF is nothing like a good CD Player.
Again, nice, informative but not exciting. The NDS is much better.

I wonder what's in the CD Player makes it so special? some added warm sound? some extra fine details? less robotic sound?
Maybe it's the spinning disc, jitter, all that...

BP.

Badlands posted:

"I'm glad streaming is so convenient and simple!!!!!!!!!!!!!!"

Yes, I agree.  It is indeed incredibly convenient and pretty straightforward and simple. 

As HH pointed out, people tend to complicate things. 

To answer Yeti42's query, I don't believe that you will benefit greatly by going for an SSD drive as opposed to a mechanical drive, and a USB drive will do just fine, as long as it is of an appropriate capacity. You don't need another NAS. 

Hmack posted:

BPhotographer posted:

Thanks.
A friend of mine came yesterday and we heard a few tracks with the NDS.
We then played the Quad 2 monoblock + LG DVD player at the other room.

He said: "I don't want to insult you, but the Quad system sounds better, I feel the music in my body".
I told him: "This system costs like the ethernet cable alone" (in the big naim system).

OK, it's not about the beauty of the sound, or the big soundstage (wide), or the clarity, etc. it's much better with the big naim system, for sure.
It's the CD Player that adds this realistic sound/sense.

If the Turntable is 10, and the CD Player is 8, the streamer is only 3-4 maybe 5.

It's not that you don't hear the same music, but the sense, the presentation, the deep realistic soundstage - it's all smeared in comparison to the CD Player.
If a string quartet is playing throguh a CD Player I can almost touch them, point the two violins the one viola and the one cello, it's all there.
With the streamer it's "almost there", it's floating, no weight (in comparison), sound is coming but without that authoritative presentation of the CD Player.

Hard drives in the Uniti Core does affect the sound quality, hence, may I ask:
What hard drives do you use?

BP.

I think that something must be very wrong with your setup, or the speakers that you are using are simply not up to the job. I may not own a Naim streamer, preferring an alternative brand for my main system. However, I have heard the NDS, and it is a very fine streamer. 

I can assure you that on my system, or for that matter virtually any decent system I have heard, there is no way that an LG DVD player would sound 'better' or 'more musical' than a Naim NDS. 

Perhaps you and your friend have got used to the very warm sound of your replay system, and simply do not like the impact of a better 'source' on that system. 

It's not the better source. The NDS is better. It's the presentation - something with that extra clear 0's and 1's - cold, uninvolving sound.

BP.

Hmack posted:

The Strat (Fender) posted:

Chris Bell posted:

.. but out of the box the NDS should perform far beyond the CDS2.   

Why?

I would guess, having looked at his profile, that since he has an NDS and previously owned a CDS3, he has been able to compare the two. If he prefers the NDS, or if it comes very close to the performance of his old CDS3, then logically his opinion would be that the NDS should easily out perform the CDS2.

Pretty straightforward logic, but I may be wrong.  

The problem with your logic is that the NDS doesn't even sound as good (he rates the NDS a 3 out of 10) as his LG DVD player.

Based on the above, how could you assume it would easily out perform, better, a CDS2, when it can't even compete sonically with a mass produced DVD player?

Badlands,

I think you might be talking about a completely different poster, with a completely different view of the NDS.

(i.e Chris Bell and BPPhotographer)

and by the way, do you too really believe that the Naim NDS can't complete with a cheap mass produced DVD player?

What a very strange thread this is!

Darke Bear posted:

You may be able to resolve the problem - as a wild idea try moving the NDS 555PS supply mains plugs, alongside the PreAmp onto a separate distribution block away from the pwer amps and the rest of the HiFi  and plug them in with 555PS farthest up the block away from the mains input and then leave a gap and then plug-in the Pre supply. You may wonder what mains plug-in sequence and geometry has to do with things - but have an experiment and find out. In my own system it is rather more important than I'd like and needs to be right or you get a smeary bland performance.

DB.

Thanks DB.
I tried that, not a big difference with the NDS. I prefer the previous configuration (one block with the following order: power, pre, 555PS) - clearer sound.

BP.

Hmack posted:

and by the way, do you too really believe that the Naim NDS can't complete with a cheap mass produced DVD player?

What a very strange thread this is!

 

I'm not sure it's the NDS or it's DAC - when I connect the LG DVD to the NDS with a naim DC1 (BNC cable) it sounds good - almost like a good CD Player.
It's something with digital files, because when I connect the same cable to the Uniti Core, with the same disc, it sounds as what I described for 4 pages.

BP.

Hmack posted:

Badlands,

I think you might be talking about a completely different poster, with a completely different view of the NDS.

(i.e Chris Bell and BPPhotographer)

When I used the term you, I meant it in general terms, I didn't specifically mean YOU. Sometimes it's hard to get your point across on an internet forum.

BPhotographer posted:

Hmack posted:

and by the way, do you too really believe that the Naim NDS can't complete with a cheap mass produced DVD player?

What a very strange thread this is!

 

I'm not sure it's the NDS or it's DAC - when I connect the LG DVD to the NDS with a naim DC1 (BNC cable) it sounds good - almost like a good CD Player.
It's something with digital files, because when I connect the same cable to the Uniti Core, with the same disc, it sounds as what I described for 4 pages.

BP.

you seem to like softness, natural sound, fluidity, true tones of instruments and real body and weight, with openness and involvement: it is exactly what i have with my nds. My past cdx2/xps2/powerline was like an ipad 1 vs ipad air ( nds) for the quality of the photos.( or realism of sound).

Something is wrong , your nds or your uniticore i strongly think.

Hmack posted:

and by the way, do you too really believe that the Naim NDS can't complete with a cheap mass produced DVD player?

 

 

I mean it looks nice, and it's a very impressive piece of equipment, I'm sure owners are very happy with it, and in the end, I guess that's all that really matters, but in my honest opinion, it just doesn't have the sound quality, I'm sorry!