NDS is suppressed by CDS-2

analogmusic posted:

I'm not convinced at all that an NDS is that far away in performance from a CDS2 : I would look at the burndy cables and get the cryogenic (contact AV options USA) treated before making a big mistake and loss selling the NDS.

FWIW when I heard an NDS all I could think is WOW, that is some source.

 

Really - you've got to organise some cryogenic treatments to get a £1Ok streamer to perform to an acceptable standard.   Of course check that everything is set-up okay but this is just ridiculous.   All the other happy NDS users aren't having to go to such lengths.

there was a post where someone had upgraded from 500 to 500 DR and was NOT happy at all - he was going to sell his 500DR !

In desperation he had the burndy cables cryo treated and the 500 DR came to life

Just search the forum you will find the post.

anyway - just trying to help which is the purpose of this thread.

Cryo treatment is pretty cheap by the way.

So is sending the burndy back to Naim for an inspection/rebuild.

Okay - I stand corrected.....

Anyway it’s not my NDS... 

I quite like the way hugo plays music

UPDATE: 
I think I nailed it.
I took off the internet cables from the router. That simple.
Instant improvements. The NDS is now playing music instead of robotic sounds. Actually a sound to die for.
Told my friend to do the same - same results there.
I can breathe freely now, smile was back on face.

Thanks all for your support.

BP.

P.S.
Maybe Richard should change the title to [SOLVED] or something like that.

I don't thinks it is solved BP,  it raises more questions,  the obvious one is what make & model is your router.    I will try it on my NDX later,  I guess a few other readers will do the same.     If it is router (& I assume you mean the broadband/wireless hub)  it begs the question about the galvanic isolation it has & the noise pollution into the home network.  Hence what make & model is it.  

Mike-B posted:

I don't thinks it is solved BP,  it raises more questions,  the obvious one is what make & model is your router.    I will try it on my NDX later,  I guess a few other readers will do the same.     If it is router (& I assume you mean the broadband/wireless hub)  it begs the question about the galvanic isolation it has & the noise pollution into the home network.  Hence what make & model is it.  

Mike,
It's a Netgear netbox (supplied by my Internet service provider) with it's non-linear power supply.
Internet connection might cause the problem - a lot of junk into the network system.


BP.

Reading this thread makes me so glad I have a balanced isolating transformer with dedicated earth, and fibre isolated network. Just a fibre media converter and simple little 4 port switch both fed from a linear power supply of my own design on the isolated mains. My NDS sounds very fine indeed.

DaveBk posted:

Reading this thread makes me so glad I have a balanced isolating transformer with dedicated earth, and fibre isolated network. Just a fibre media converter and simple little 4 port switch both fed from a linear power supply of my own design on the isolated mains. My NDS sounds very fine indeed.

I guess it's best to use network devices (modems, routers, switches, etc…) the same way audiophiles use audio components (preamp, mono blocks, DACs, etc…).

A single device for each task, and dedicated for the streaming solution.

BP.

BPhotographer posted:

Mike-B posted:

I don't thinks it is solved BP,  it raises more questions,  the obvious one is what make & model is your router.    I will try it on my NDX later,  I guess a few other readers will do the same.     If it is router (& I assume you mean the broadband/wireless hub)  it begs the question about the galvanic isolation it has & the noise pollution into the home network.  Hence what make & model is it.  

Mike,
It's a Netgear netbox (supplied by my Internet service provider) with it's non-linear power supply.
Internet connection might cause the problem - a lot of junk into the network system.


BP.

but you run your lan cables to the core and to the nds from a dedicated ( different) switch before?  not from the router?

DaveBk posted:

Reading this thread makes me so glad I have a balanced isolating transformer with dedicated earth, and fibre isolated network. Just a fibre media converter and simple little 4 port switch both fed from a linear power supply of my own design on the isolated mains. My NDS sounds very fine indeed.

i have the same but the first link is a commercial router, then dedicated switch ( cisco 2960) then fmc converters with linear ps.   I don’t think it is possible to avoid this first link( commercial router / internet service provider).   is it?

BPhotographer posted:

DaveBk posted:

Reading this thread makes me so glad I have a balanced isolating transformer with dedicated earth, and fibre isolated network. Just a fibre media converter and simple little 4 port switch both fed from a linear power supply of my own design on the isolated mains. My NDS sounds very fine indeed.

I guess it's best to use network devices (modems, routers, switches, etc…) the same way audiophiles use audio components (preamp, mono blocks, DACs, etc…).

A single device for each task, and dedicated for the streaming solution.

BP.

you were talking before of the gs105 dedicated switch with ifi power. So i don’t understand, sorry.  But i am anyway happy for you.

I've pulled & reconnected my BT line connection,  both during replay & separate listening & I really cannot hear any difference.     

My broadband line into the hub first goes through a APC UPS phone line surge protection module,   the cables to/from the surge protector are both loaded with ferrite (4 turns around the clamp core)                                       

Additionally the SMPS to the wireless hub is powered via the UPS isolation circuit & both its 240vAC input & 12vDC output are loaded with ferrite.

I've also run a BT line noise test & its comes out as excellent.   

So bottom line is I don't seem to have a problem so can't really add more to this.    Watching with interest tho'

French Rooster posted:

BPhotographer posted:

DaveBk posted:

Reading this thread makes me so glad I have a balanced isolating transformer with dedicated earth, and fibre isolated network. Just a fibre media converter and simple little 4 port switch both fed from a linear power supply of my own design on the isolated mains. My NDS sounds very fine indeed.

I guess it's best to use network devices (modems, routers, switches, etc…) the same way audiophiles use audio components (preamp, mono blocks, DACs, etc…).

A single device for each task, and dedicated for the streaming solution.

BP.

you were talking before of the gs105 dedicated switch with ifi power. So i don’t understand, sorry.  But i am anyway happy for you.

Yes. Disconnecting the internet cables from the router made it a dedicated network device for the streaming solution.
I still use the GS105 + iFi iPower.
It's worth mentioning that the Ethernet cable between the router and the switch is very important (I'm waiting for another Sarum T), but still sounds fab.

BP.

BPhotographer posted:

UPDATE: 
I think I nailed it.
I took off the internet cables from the router. That simple.
Instant improvements. The NDS is now playing music instead of robotic sounds. Actually a sound to die for.
Told my friend to do the same - same results there.
I can breathe freely now, smile was back on face.

Thanks all for your support.

BP.

P.S.
Maybe Richard should change the title to [SOLVED] or something like that.

I’m so glad he didn’t die for it before finding out. That would have been a real shame!

Mike-B posted:

I've pulled & reconnected my BT line connection,  both during replay & separate listening & I really cannot hear any difference.     

My broadband line into the hub first goes through a APC UPS phone line surge protection module,   the cables to/from the surge protector are both loaded with ferrite (4 turns around the clamp core)                                       

Additionally the SMPS to the wireless hub is powered via the UPS isolation circuit & both its 240vAC input & 12vDC output are loaded with ferrite.

I've also run a BT line noise test & its comes out as excellent.   

So bottom line is I don't seem to have a problem so can't really add more to this.    Watching with interest tho'

I made these tests maybe 10 times, also during replay and separate listening.
With internet connection it's almost unlistenable now.

But I don't have to compare it right away, It just the way I enjoy music now - I did it yesterday and went to bed at 4am, enjoyed the system that much.
Today many hours with the NDS, the music was very pleasing to listen to.

That's the real test.

BP.

BPhotographer posted:

Mike-B posted:

I've pulled & reconnected my BT line connection,  both during replay & separate listening & I really cannot hear any difference.     

My broadband line into the hub first goes through a APC UPS phone line surge protection module,   the cables to/from the surge protector are both loaded with ferrite (4 turns around the clamp core)                                       

Additionally the SMPS to the wireless hub is powered via the UPS isolation circuit & both its 240vAC input & 12vDC output are loaded with ferrite.

I've also run a BT line noise test & its comes out as excellent.   

So bottom line is I don't seem to have a problem so can't really add more to this.    Watching with interest tho'

I made these tests maybe 10 times, also during replay and separate listening.
With internet connection it's almost unlistenable now.

But I don't have to compare it right away, It just the way I enjoy music now - I did it yesterday and went to bed at 4am, enjoyed the system that much.
Today many hours with the NDS, the music was very pleasing to listen to.

That's the real test.

BP.

Your experience seems an extreme case BP, but nevertheless illustrates the possible foibles of being exposed to network vagaries. Exactly why I’m keen to try a Melco...

kevin J Carden posted:

BPhotographer posted:

Mike-B posted:

I've pulled & reconnected my BT line connection,  both during replay & separate listening & I really cannot hear any difference.     

My broadband line into the hub first goes through a APC UPS phone line surge protection module,   the cables to/from the surge protector are both loaded with ferrite (4 turns around the clamp core)                                       

Additionally the SMPS to the wireless hub is powered via the UPS isolation circuit & both its 240vAC input & 12vDC output are loaded with ferrite.

I've also run a BT line noise test & its comes out as excellent.   

So bottom line is I don't seem to have a problem so can't really add more to this.    Watching with interest tho'

I made these tests maybe 10 times, also during replay and separate listening.
With internet connection it's almost unlistenable now.

But I don't have to compare it right away, It just the way I enjoy music now - I did it yesterday and went to bed at 4am, enjoyed the system that much.
Today many hours with the NDS, the music was very pleasing to listen to.

That's the real test.

BP.

Your experience seems an extreme case BP, but nevertheless illustrates the possible foibles of being exposed to network vagaries. Exactly why I’m keen to try a Melco...

My friend disconnected internet connection from his router and reported much of the same. He was unpleased with his NDS, and now he says it's fantastic, so the change is only good for us?
It seems awkward to me.

Maybe you all guys are using a dedicated router as a standard? One for the system and one for the rest of the house?

BP.

BPhotographer posted:

Maybe you all guys are using a dedicated router as a standard? One for the system and one for the rest of the house?

BP.

My ISP supplied hub is a standard BT HH6 (SmartHub). It connects with everything in the house,  via ethernet to a Cisco SG110 that connects NAS to NDX (this is an isolated audio only LAN).      The HH6 also connects via ethernet to the TV.

I recently rationalised & sold all my office stuff, PC & two printers, it had another ethernet feed off the BT HH6 to a Netgear switch. The rationalised office is now just a wireless connected printer/scanner.    But I have not noticed any change in audio SQ as a result of that change.   

Also I must mention that my NDX plays iRadio during the day most days & clocks up a lot more playing hours than it does playing from NAS,  so without an internet connection it would be a serious hit on my listening pleasure.     Have you tried your NDS on iRadio and web streaming  (Tidal/Spotify) ??   my guess it will have the same problematic SQ as it does with local streaming (NAS)

Mike-B posted:

BPhotographer posted:

Maybe you all guys are using a dedicated router as a standard? One for the system and one for the rest of the house?

BP.

My ISP supplied hub is a standard BT HH6 (SmartHub). It connects with everything in the house,  via ethernet to the audio only units via a Cisco SG110 that connects NAS to NDX.      The HH6 also connects via ethernet to the TV.

I recently rationalised & sold all my office stuff, PC & two printers, it had another ethernet feed off the BT HH6 to a Netgear switch. The rationalised office is now just a wireless connected printer/scanner.    But I have not noticed any change in audio SQ as a result of that change.   

Also I must mention that my NDX plays iRadio during the day most days & clocks up a lot more playing hours than it does playing from NAS,  so without an internet connection it would be a serious hit on my listening pleasure.     Have you tried your NDS on iRadio and web streaming  (Tidal/Spotify) ??   my guess it will have the same problematic SQ as it does with local streaming (NAS)

 

 I tried Tidal and thought the SQ was worse than the local UPnP server. I'm using the NAT 01, much better SQ than the iRadio, so no problem with disconnected internet cable here.

BP.

Wow what a positive outcome !

well done !

BPhotographer posted:

kevin J Carden posted:

BPhotographer posted:

Mike-B posted:

I've pulled & reconnected my BT line connection,  both during replay & separate listening & I really cannot hear any difference.     

My broadband line into the hub first goes through a APC UPS phone line surge protection module,   the cables to/from the surge protector are both loaded with ferrite (4 turns around the clamp core)                                       

Additionally the SMPS to the wireless hub is powered via the UPS isolation circuit & both its 240vAC input & 12vDC output are loaded with ferrite.

I've also run a BT line noise test & its comes out as excellent.   

So bottom line is I don't seem to have a problem so can't really add more to this.    Watching with interest tho'

I made these tests maybe 10 times, also during replay and separate listening.
With internet connection it's almost unlistenable now.

But I don't have to compare it right away, It just the way I enjoy music now - I did it yesterday and went to bed at 4am, enjoyed the system that much.
Today many hours with the NDS, the music was very pleasing to listen to.

That's the real test.

BP.

Your experience seems an extreme case BP, but nevertheless illustrates the possible foibles of being exposed to network vagaries. Exactly why I’m keen to try a Melco...

My friend disconnected internet connection from his router and reported much of the same. He was unpleased with his NDS, and now he says it's fantastic, so the change is only good for us?
It seems awkward to me.

Maybe you all guys are using a dedicated router as a standard? One for the system and one for the rest of the house?

BP.

how can disconnect internet from your router and have internet to your dedicated switch?  i miss something.....Perhaps my poor english 

You don't need internet to stream from a NAS to the NDS.

james n posted:

Perhaps the OP just doesn't like the NDS presentation compared to the CDS2. I know it's a Naim box, so in some eyes can do no wrong, but it's not working for the OP.

It does make me wonder why it was purchased in the first place ?

The Strat (Fender) posted:

BPhotographer posted:

I'm not the first person to prefer the CD player over streaming. I know Darke Bear also prefer's his CD555.
It’s been many years since most of you sold your CD555/CDS3/CDS2 for a NDS, so you may be missing something…

I'm not crazy, but most of you get such an amazing sound from your NDS so you can’t help but wonder if something is amiss.

BP.

Agreed