NDS is suppressed by CDS-2

BP,

So what are you going to do with the צרה צרורה? Are you considering returning it to your very busy dealer?  I am assuming that you have only one there.

On the side line picking up an lot of information.

Ok, a new Paradigm!

All three, depending on Music and Mood.

In my experience, I felt the Digital CD was more convenient than the Analog TT.

It appears Digital Streaming is more convenient than The Digital CD!

But when it comes to SQ, it really is a personal preference.

Just my two cents!

Nice Thread!

Enjoy Your Music!

Allante93!

PS. Simplicity vs Convenience

Dozey posted:

You don't need internet to stream from a NAS to the NDS.

the nas is connected with a lan cable to internet and the nds the same( in upnp). The switch is connected to the router. A lan ethernet connection is a connection to internet, not?  

BPhotographer posted:

I'm not the first person to prefer the CD player over streaming. I know Darke Bear also prefer's his CD555.
It’s been many years since most of you sold your CD555/CDS3/CDS2 for a NDS, so you may be missing something…

I'm not crazy, but most of you get such an amazing sound from your NDS so you can’t help but wonder if something is amiss.

BP.

An archived thread:

March of 2016.

https://forums.naimaudio.com/to...ic-server-for-an-nds

French Rooster posted:

Dozey posted:

You don't need internet to stream from a NAS to the NDS.

the nas is connected with a lan cable to internet and the nds the same( in upnp). The switch is connected to the router. A lan ethernet connection is a connection to internet, not?  

I’m not getting this disconnect issue either. Any chance of a diagram FR?

cheers

G

Rooster,

No.

If you connect the NAS and the NDS by Ethernet to a switch (and wifi router) you do not need access to the internet. Except if you want to stream from Tidal, Spotify, etc. which require an internet connection from the router to a modem and hence to the internet. If you have a combined modem and router (like a virgin superhub) you an disconnect it from the internet and still stream from the NAS.

Hi BP,

Glad you got this sorted - as I said digital is incredibly, painfully, sensitive.

I may have missed it - how would you compare and contrast the two now?

A thought: The media bridge the FR suggested may still be the answer, assuming you still want to have an internet connection.

As I mentioned above I shelter my digital back end behind an Isolation Transformer and I find this very effective. I also have another device downstream of the media bridge to try and block hash from the network reaching my digital front end.

I think you may find further attention to detail will pay dividends.

M

BPhotographer posted:

...

Maybe you all guys are using a dedicated router as a standard? One for the system and one for the rest of the house?

This is what I did when I home-demoed the NDS. I segmented my network with a dedicated 'HiFi switch' that mediated all the HiFi specific traffic and separated it from the house network's other devices.
I knew to do this, as one of my jobs before I retired was as Network Engineer for a large Telecom company - and knowing how Ethernet works really makes you want to do this for multiple reasons, not just electrical noise but the very way it all works - to drastically reduce line contention which can translate into packet-loss, re-sends, and generally more busy input-buffer activity, and more noise inside the NDS to manage all that.

Great that you got the solution!
It reinforces how important it is to take care of the installation details when using a network-connected system.

Enjoy.

DB.

Mr Underhill posted:

Hi BP,

Glad you got this sorted - as I said digital is incredibly, painfully, sensitive.

I may have missed it - how would you compare and contrast the two now?

A thought: The media bridge the FR suggested may still be the answer, assuming you still want to have an internet connection.

As I mentioned above I shelter my digital back end behind an Isolation Transformer and I find this very effective. I also have another device downstream of the media bridge to try and block hash from the network reaching my digital front end.

I think you may find further attention to detail will pay dividends.

M

 

as i don’t use tidal, maybe this dedicated hifi switch is the best solution.  I didn’t know now if all my network isolation with optical bridge is better or the same or worse vs a dedicated hifi switch. I am now confused.

From my commercial router, there is only the phone and the tv box which are connected. But my tv box is switched off when i listen to the music. Then from this router is connected my cisco 2960 dedicated switch ( to nds and unitserve). Between the cisco and the nds i have the optical bridge with high quality linear ps.

So what to think now about this new solution for me( dedicated hifi switch)?    

Haim Ronen posted:

BP,

So what are you going to do with the צרה צרורה? Are you considering returning it to your very busy dealer?  I am assuming that you have only one there.

 

I see that you miss the Hebrew language, our dealer is one but good as many

French Rooster posted:

Mr Underhill posted:

Hi BP,

Glad you got this sorted - as I said digital is incredibly, painfully, sensitive.

I may have missed it - how would you compare and contrast the two now?

A thought: The media bridge the FR suggested may still be the answer, assuming you still want to have an internet connection.

As I mentioned above I shelter my digital back end behind an Isolation Transformer and I find this very effective. I also have another device downstream of the media bridge to try and block hash from the network reaching my digital front end.

I think you may find further attention to detail will pay dividends.

M

 

as i don’t use tidal, maybe this dedicated hifi switch is the best solution.  I didn’t know now if all my network isolation with optical bridge is better or the same or worse vs a dedicated hifi switch. I am now confused.

From my commercial router, there is only the phone and the tv box which are connected. But my tv box is switched off when i listen to the music. Then from this router is connected my cisco 2960 dedicated switch ( to nds and unitserve). Between the cisco and the nds i have the optical bridge with high quality linear ps.

So what to think now about this new solution for me( dedicated hifi switch)?    

I'll try to explain slowly.
You don't need internet connection in order to play from UnitiServe to NDS. What you do need is router + switch (you don't need the switch but it's better for SQ).
Your Cisco can be a dedicated switch for the system, just plug 1 cable from the router + NDS + UnitiServe.
In my experience, the router which is connected to the switch should be without internet connection for best performance.
So now you have no internet connection for the rest of the house - use another router...

BP.

Mr Underhill posted:

Hi BP,

I may have missed it - how would you compare and contrast the two now?

 

M

 

Things get very interesting now because both sources sounds superb.
They are different, absolutely. I talked to Mark from naim R&D when I visited naim factory this year, he told me the same - "They are different."

To my ears, it's almost impossible to define how the NDS is sounding because it can sound so different with computer/UnitiCore and different ethernet cables/hard drives/switch etc.

I don't like it. I buy naim because I know everything was tested for best performance, by those golden ears, and I like what they did for many years.
But now, they put me in a situation I've never had before - I need to be concerned about the network, and it's a big deal.
I know now that the NDS is not a plug & play kind of component. The network does influence directly on SQ, a lot.

Nevertheless, the NDS sounds more open, more engaging, I can listen to it for 24 hours a day.
It also shows how good the pre+amp+speakers, especially the speakers, I find them doing things that the previously SL2 just can not match.
It digs the recording for new details, almost "explains" the music in a way the CD Player do not.
The soundstage is big, human vocals can be sometimes very tall.

The CDS-2 is extraordinary. More weight, more definition, less natural in the mid but more bass.
The NDS has a great bass but sometimes I feel I'm hearing lower-mid instead of the real dark bass of the CD Player.

I'm enjoying both the NDS and the CDS-2 very much now.

BP.

Good news 

BPhotographer posted:

Mr Underhill posted:

Hi BP,

I may have missed it - how would you compare and contrast the two now?

 

M

 

Things get very interesting now because both sources sounds superb.
They are different, absolutely. I talked to Mark from naim R&D when I visited naim factory this year, he told me the same - "They are different."

To my ears, it's almost impossible to define how the NDS is sounding because it can sound so different with computer/UnitiCore and different ethernet cables/hard drives/switch etc.

I don't like it. I buy naim because I know everything was tested for best performance, by those golden ears, and I like what they did for many years.
But now, they put me in a situation I've never had before - I need to be concerned about the network, and it's a big deal.
I know now that the NDS is not a plug & play kind of component. The network does influence directly on SQ, a lot.

Nevertheless, the NDS sounds more open, more engaging, I can listen to it for 24 hours a day.
It also shows how good the pre+amp+speakers, especially the speakers, I find them doing things that the previously SL2 just can not match.
It digs the recording for new details, almost "explains" the music in a way the CD Player do not.
The soundstage is big, human vocals can be sometimes very tall.

The CDS-2 is extraordinary. More weight, more definition, less natural in the mid but more bass.
The NDS has a great bass but sometimes I feel I'm hearing lower-mid instead of the real dark bass of the CD Player.

I'm enjoying both the NDS and the CDS-2 very much now.

BP.

Thanks BP, you really have enlightened me.

It makes a little sense now.

I have a router associated with my internet, provided by an local provider ( AT & T ).

Now I understand why the NDS should perform at its best, when it is not influenced by the router.

Internet Router>Switch>NDS

Least of all, a mass produced router, geared to maximize profit, not SQ!

The TT is simple! $$$$$$$ Loaded LP 12

The CDP is simple! $$$$$$ CD 555/555PS x 2

The NDS is not quite that simple

Streaming is not quite that simple

Hence, I'm easing into it! 

Cdx2 > 282 > Simple

MM > 2wire19 = Internet

2wire19 > Separate Network > Airport Extreme

A wireless Network, which relays the digital signal to 3 different stations throughout my home.

Living Room~ Airport Express 1

Family Room~Airport Express 2

Rec Room~Airport Express 3

Local Streaming i.e. Apple/itunes.

Not Bad, and convenient.

Controlling music throughout my home this very second, whilst lying in bed.

Controlling device, Android LG Mobil phone.

Once Again Thanks!

The Forum at its Best.

Informative Mode.

Allante93!

PS. Next task!

How does the Melco enter into the equation!

$$$$$$$!

Please correct me, if I'm not on Point!

Thanks In Advance!

Hi BP, a fascinating tread .... a few questions if you do not mind -->

1. How do you use the Naim app if the router is not connected to the internet?

2. Have you tested a wifi bridge set-up instead of a wired router?

BP did great, he saved the homeland, now my NDS is worth the investment,,,,,, bravo

Chrissw19 posted:

Hi BP, a fascinating tread .... a few questions if you do not mind -->

1. How do you use the Naim app if the router is not connected to the internet?

2. Have you tested a wifi bridge set-up instead of a wired router?

You don’t need the internet. So long as WiFi is working it will work. You can’t get internet radio or Tidal of course, or the Rovi booklets, but upnp from a nas will work fine. 

meni48 posted:

Haim Ronen posted:

BP,

So what are you going to do with the צרה צרורה? Are you considering returning it to your very busy dealer?  I am assuming that you have only one there.

 

I see that you miss the Hebrew language, our dealer is one but good as many

Indeed. but for the record: one of his kind

meni48 posted:

BP did great, he saved the homeland, now my NDS is worth the investment,,,,,, bravo

Sounds more like saving the planet judging from the input arriving from all three hemispheres..

Does your one and only dealer show up for home installation or is he busy doing miluim all the time?

What town are you guys live in? I am planning a trip to the HL soon and perhaps I could pay your visit.

Haim Ronen posted:

meni48 posted:

BP did great, he saved the homeland, now my NDS is worth the investment,,,,,, bravo

Sounds more like saving the planet judging from the input arriving from all three hemispheres..

Does your one and only dealer show up for home installation or is he busy doing miluim all the time?

What town are you guys live in? I am planning a trip to the HL soon and perhaps I could pay your visit.

My dealer is to old for doing miluim HHHHHH, but he is a good dealer, you could pay a visit also, you can find me for more details on Facebook

BPhotographer posted:

 

Things get very interesting now because both sources sounds superb.
They are different, absolutely. I talked to Mark from naim R&D when I visited naim factory this year, he told me the same - "They are different."

{To my ears, it's almost impossible to define how the NDS is sounding because it can sound so different with computer/UnitiCore and different ethernet cables/hard drives/switch etc.}

{I don't like it. I buy naim because I know everything was tested for best performance, by those golden ears, and I like what they did for many years.}

But now, they put me in a situation I've never had before - I need to be concerned about the network, and it's a big deal.

I know now that the NDS is not a plug & play kind of component.

The network does influence directly on SQ, a lot.

Nevertheless, the NDS sounds more open, more engaging, I can listen to it for 24 hours a day.
It also shows how good the pre+amp+speakers, especially the speakers, I find them doing things that the previously SL2 just can not match.

It digs the recording for new details, almost "explains" the music in a way the CD Player do not.

The soundstage is big, human vocals can be sometimes very tall.

{The CDS-2 is extraordinary. More weight, more definition, less natural in the mid but more bass.}

The NDS has a great bass but sometimes I feel I'm hearing lower-mid instead of the real dark bass of the CD Player.

I'm enjoying both the NDS and the CDS-2 very much now.

BP.

Agreed 101%

To add to the mix, here's what one of our respected Forum Engineers had to say, concerning NDS and Streaming as it relates to the Melco!

"Dan, the transcoding libraries would be used the by the media server streaming modules, and so would be part of the Melco itself. It is entirely unto the design of the Melco software on how they write their code and link in libraries .. They could of course write their own AV functions but I kind of find that unlikely such is the way of writing and linking Unix based apps. What is interesting these libraries should sound identical - but they are not to my ears.. i think sometimes people gloss over the importance of the software - and in my experience software often has more of a bearing than a slightly noisy power supply in a network component."

This was when the Melco was hailed as the latest and greatest component to complement Naim's NDS!

Very interesting, if you have the time, by all means check it out!

March of 2016.

https://forums.naimaudio.com/to...ic-server-for-an-nds

Enjoy Your Music!

Allante93!

Haim Ronen posted:

meni48 posted:

BP did great, he saved the homeland, now my NDS is worth the investment,,,,,, bravo

Sounds more like saving the planet judging from the input arriving from all three hemispheres..

Does your one and only dealer show up for home installation or is he busy doing miluim all the time?

What town are you guys live in? I am planning a trip to the HL soon and perhaps I could pay your visit.

Haim, come visit me in Ramat Gan when you're in Israel.

CHRISSW19, as HUNGRYHALIBUT said, you don't need internet connection in order to control the NDS via naim app.
There is no connection between Wi-Fi (LAN: NDS, iPad) and internet connection.  

BP.

Something I can't understand:
If the NDS buffers say 10 minutes of music (0's & 1's) in it's own memory, why the hell does the network influences the performance?
Why does the server influences the performance?

As much as I know, the TCP/IP protocol is all about sending packets through the network hardware, so if there's an error or some kind of interrupt, the relevant packet is retransmitted, and no problem should be occur.
Hi Fi is a serious problem, but think about internet access to your bank account.
Fishy...

BP.

BPhotographer posted:

Something I can't understand:
If the NDS buffers say 10 minutes of music (0's & 1's) in it's own memory, why the hell does the network influences the performance?

Naim streamers do not buffer anything like that much - pull the Ethernet cable out and see how long it takes for the music to stop playing. The new streaming platform buffers much more that the old one, but still well under 10 minutes.

BPhotographer posted:

If the NDS buffers say 10 minutes of music (0's & 1's) in it's own memory   ...................   

More like 10 seconds,  but question is still a good one