If not Ovator or SBL then ?

Had S20s now for 10 months and frankly every day they impress me more and more.  About 10” from the rear wall but the downward porting helps - I reckon they could go closer. 

Will Jack home dem you a pair?

Regards,

Lindsay

The Strat (Fender) posted:

Had S20s now for 10 months and frankly every day they impress me more and more.  About 10” from the rear wall but the downward porting helps - I reckon they could go closer. 

Will Jack home dem you a pair?

Regards,

Lindsay

Thanks I was impressed with the s20 at the Audiobarn event even not setup fully. They will be on my list for sure. I am up north so it’s a long trip ! 

10” from back wall could be a problem 

Rob 

My understanding is those amps are legendary. With this in mind is NDX a good enough front end? How about NDS and spec the speakers down a bit?

Are rosewood 400's rare? I wanted black but could only find rosewood.

While you were at the Audiobarn did you get to hear the Larsen 8? 

Is 6” the maximum you can come out from the wall?

Shahinian as you have 135s.

If you get flack counter with the suggestion of a pair of Eclipse TD712zMK2, she’ll either love the style or the’ll put the wooden boxes in perspective. Ivan at Cool Gales is a very accomodating fellow if you end up wanting to hear a pair.

Christopher_M posted:

My understanding is those amps are legendary. With this in mind is NDX a good enough front end? How about NDS and spec the speakers down a bit?

While the OP does not want other recommendations, I’d echo what Chris suggests here. The SBLs are not the limiting factor. The S400 is just different. With the 52/135s and SBLs, an NDS/555PS would not be out of order. 

The room is not very big, so something modestly sized, such as the Kudos S20 might work well. The key is to try them at home. 

Have a listen to QUAD electrostatic speakers. 

Ovators were also modelled on them (which I can confirm in a way, as I own and run Ovators S400 and QUAD ESL 63)

Adam Zielinski posted:

Have a listen to QUAD electrostatic speakers. 

Ovators were also modelled on them (which I can confirm in a way, as I own and run Ovators S400 and QUAD ESL 63)

Don't the Quad ESLs have to be well out in the room as they are dipoles?

But most electrostatic speakers don't do bass well. And if they do bass, it is not nicely integrated. I recently listened to some Martin Logans and it was terrible. Very nice midrange and high, but wooly bass.

The Ovators have that nice, quite well integrated, dry and tuneful bass which makes them so nice.

To the OP: why not buy the Ovators and have them painted by a good painter? I consider this possible. I have the zebrano black's and I think the zebrano is just a print. Piano Black, or even Pink if SWMBO likes that ...

If you don't think Quads do bass you should hear my mates 2905's on the end of his full 555/552/500 system. They get very close to my DBL's. Also remember that Naim always wanted to build electrostatics but they couldn't build them to the scale and price needed.

One thing to mention is that Naim adjusted his 500 so that he didn't have an involuntary indoor firework display, which is what Quads do when you introduce a 500 amp at full chat - apparently it becomes a mini arc welder!

PMC Fact 12 crop up from time to time ex-dem within that budget, but I've no idea how they compare in sound, and I don't think they do rosewood...  They are very skinny and elegant looking, and the sound can be tailored slightly to the room.

Though I gave a few ideas for speakers I'd echo the comment about the source, if you haven't ordered already give the NDS a listen, you might find the SBLs up their game when fed a better signal, assuming they're set up properly.

Innocent Bystander posted:

Adam Zielinski posted:

Have a listen to QUAD electrostatic speakers. 

Ovators were also modelled on them (which I can confirm in a way, as I own and run Ovators S400 and QUAD ESL 63)

Don't the Quad ESLs have to be well out in the room as they are dipoles?

Around 60 cm from a back wall, but happy in corners. 

Ovators need at least 25 cm from a back wall to work well. 

Re-finishing speakers is not too hard. The grill of the S400 is especially friendly to this concept.

I have done this for clients a lot, and as an owner of white s400s have been playing with the idea of making them pillar box red.

If doing woodgrain, you can go darker. Walnut to Rosewood would work find a decent French polisher.

Mort2k posted:

The Strat (Fender) posted:

Had S20s now for 10 months and frankly every day they impress me more and more.  About 10” from the rear wall but the downward porting helps - I reckon they could go closer. 

Will Jack home dem you a pair?

Regards,

Lindsay

Thanks I was impressed with the s20 at the Audiobarn event even not setup fully. They will be on my list for sure. I am up north so it’s a long trip ! 

10” from back wall could be a problem 

 

Rob 

Rob - can you get to Leicester?  Peter and the guys at Cymbiosis are excellent with Kudos.

Regards,

Lindsay

Kevin Richardson posted:

Are rosewood 400's rare? I wanted black but could only find rosewood.

Kevin

That's encouraging i have not seen a pair go up for sale so will keep a closer eye open 

Thanks

Rob

yeti42 posted:

While you were at the Audiobarn did you get to hear the Larsen 8? 

Is 6” the maximum you can come out from the wall?

Shahinian as you have 135s.

If you get flack counter with the suggestion of a pair of Eclipse TD712zMK2, she’ll either love the style or the’ll put the wooden boxes in perspective. Ivan at Cool Gales is a very accomodating fellow if you end up wanting to hear a pair.

Thanks for the response. I did not hear the Larsen 8, it was just Kudos. Just had a look online and they could be an interesting option to Dem.

As for Shahinian they are on the list as a mate has Obs and they do sound nice. Looks could be an issue though - I like your suggestion on dealing with looks !

Rob

Hungryhalibut posted:

Christopher_M posted:

My understanding is those amps are legendary. With this in mind is NDX a good enough front end? How about NDS and spec the speakers down a bit?

While the OP does not want other recommendations, I’d echo what Chris suggests here. The SBLs are not the limiting factor. The S400 is just different. With the 52/135s and SBLs, an NDS/555PS would not be out of order. 

The room is not very big, so something modestly sized, such as the Kudos S20 might work well. The key is to try them at home. 

Chris and HH

I hear you on the NDS its in the plans... the NDX is a 'cheap' step up as i can do a deal with a mate who is looking to downsize so its a long way off the price of a New NDS and the 555 upgrade from XPS!

HH thanks for the suggestions , i do need to listen to the S20A again.  Totaly agree on the home demo requirements. 

I guess my terminology may be off, not limiting factor as in the speakers capabilities but more the limiting factor in my ability to enjoy longer listening sessions. The SBL (and i have heard quite a few pairs in different rooms etc) tend to have a harsh top end that (in my system) causes fatigue when listening. The S400 (in my system/room) dont give me the same issue, they also provide more separation and detail from the listening so far. The big test will be tomorrow when the S400 go and the SBL come back in place

Will update on how the SBL go tomorrow.

Thanks

Rob

Adam Zielinski posted:

Have a listen to QUAD electrostatic speakers. 

Ovators were also modelled on them (which I can confirm in a way, as I own and run Ovators S400 and QUAD ESL 63)

Adam

Thanks for the suggestion, they got a very 'Not a Chance' look from the other half

Rob 

Ardbeg10y posted:

The Ovators have that nice, quite well integrated, dry and tuneful bass which makes them so nice.

To the OP: why not buy the Ovators and have them painted by a good painter? I consider this possible. I have the zebrano black's and I think the zebrano is just a print. Piano Black, or even Pink if SWMBO likes that ...

Interesting suggestion will have to ponder and explore that. Would almost certainly ruin any resale value.

Rob

Innocent Bystander posted:

PMC Fact 12 crop up from time to time ex-dem within that budget, but I've no idea how they compare in sound, and I don't think they do rosewood...  They are very skinny and elegant looking, and the sound can be tailored slightly to the room.

I was looking at the PMC range the other day but the Twenty5 Range, they fit the size and looks test, just need to listen. Will consider the FACT range as well - they very different in sound ? 

Rosewood is not a requirements, just the only option in s400 that may be acceptable. More Oak colours are best for the room.. 

rob

Mort2k posted:

Innocent Bystander posted:

PMC Fact 12 crop up from time to time ex-dem within that budget, but I've no idea how they compare in sound, and I don't think they do rosewood...  They are very skinny and elegant looking, and the sound can be tailored slightly to the room.

I was looking at the PMC range the other day but the Twenty5 Range, they fit the size and looks test, just need to listen. Will consider the FACT range as well - they very different in sound ? 

 

 

Fact 12 is a significant step up in sound presentatio. from twenty26, while being more elegant (to my eyes) as a result of its slim front. But they are also significantly more expensive.

If you like the S400s just try and be patient and wait a bit for some rosewood ones to come on the market. You could even put up a wanted ad in the usual places.

I have S600 in Zebrano and S400 in Rosewood. I like Zebrano very much albeit is not a real veneer. If you don't like the colour you found you could get them resprayed  in satin white or gloss black like original spec.

There also here a forum member owning S600, painted in Moonston Black. A sort of gloss black with metal flaking. I' ve been told by Mr, Steven Hopkins that was done like test bed for Focal.

For the record, i run S600 in a similar sized room like yours. Considering that 707s are smaller 600s the new 606 should work very well in your room.

Regards

Roberto

Surprised no one has yet mentioned the Dynaudio/Naim synergy.

If not a Naim speaker, then for me the speaker that is compatible with Naim values of Pace Rhythm and Timing is Dynaudio.