If not Ovator or SBL then ?

Thank you Mort, very interesting write up.

I am surprised about the 135/SBL shortcomings based on how common this system was back in the day. I personally use a non DR 300 passive and there is nothing bright or tireing to the sound I get.

I look forward to the remaining findings with interest.

Stu

Dave***t posted:

Thanks for the thorough writeup, it sounds like you enjoyed it all.  It does make me wonder (perhaps it's been mentioned and I missed it) whether the 135s have been serviced?

Did you get chance to see if the torque wrench made much difference?

I wondered the same so checked my memory. They where serviced in 2013 so should be all good. 

Torque wrench has not arrived so still on the list of things to test 

Rob

stuart.ashen posted:

Thank you Mort, very interesting write up.

I am surprised about the 135/SBL shortcomings based on how common this system was back in the day. I personally use a non DR 300 passive and there is nothing bright or tireing to the sound I get.

I look forward to the remaining findings with interest.

Stu

Stu

Surprised myself as well, maybe a room thing 

Will write the up the last test tonight  

Rob

Geko posted:

If you don't think Quads do bass you should hear my mates 2905's on the end of his full 555/552/500 system. They get very close to my DBL's. Also remember that Naim always wanted to build electrostatics but they couldn't build them to the scale and price needed.

One thing to mention is that Naim adjusted his 500 so that he didn't have an involuntary indoor firework display, which is what Quads do when you introduce a 500 amp at full chat - apparently it becomes a mini arc welder!

the 2912 quad does real bass which doesnt resonate   they do a metre   behind them   even better with soundwave squares to absorb back refection.   all for £38

Evening All

I just wanted to bring this journey to conclusion and share my thoughts on where I end up.

The final test on active was:

NDX/XPSDR > HiLine > 52/SCap > 250.2(Low) / 250DR (hi) > SNAXO 242/HiCapDR > SBL - Fraim

As predicted swapping the old and new 250 around has a significant impact on the sound. Lost a lot of drive and low end definition, but gained so much on the top end it really shows how good the 250DR really is. Separation, decay, emotion was much better with the DR on the top end, made anything instrumental, vocal etc much more involving.  Anything that needed to rock seemed a bit slower and the base lines less defined. I am not sure which i would call better, it as very dependent the track / genre being listened to. 

After this the SNAXO etc had to go back and as a mate was liking the 135's I went back to a non DR 250 passive. This change really brought home just how good the SBL's are when driven active, everything was flat, lifeless and a bit boring to listen to ! saying something given the cost of the kit still in place! That said after a few days i was able to appreciate the 250 for what it could offer, it is a very nice sounding amp and it solves the harsh top end issue that started all this, just does not have the control or drive that the 135's had but then its not serviced for 17 years and is not DR so...

Next step - Managed to borrow a NAP 300 just to see.... I must say given it was a passive setup the 300 (same age and service status as the 250) was a very impressive. Brought all the drive back that the 135's had but with even more control of the lower end. I would say the mid /top end was better than the 250DR, I dont have the words to describe the overall effect of the 300 other than 22:30 became 01:30 without me even knowing it, just one more track....! Overall a very nice amp that could of ended up being a final resting place.

Today me and the wife visited my dealer to complete the final step and demo some new speaker options. Having not heard much other than SBL's for years (except a brief listed to Kudos 707 a couple of months back) i wanted to get an idea of what newer designs could offer.  Kudos S20a,  Shahinian Arcs and PMC 25.24 where on offer hooked up to the following boxes 

 NDX/XPSDR > 52/SCapDR > 300

I very enjoyable time was had playing a bunch of our favorite songs. To cut a long story short my preference order was

PMC > S20 > Arc

We both agreed we found the arcs just not interesting enough for our taste. The S20A a bit uncontrolled at the bottom end but had the best drive. The PMC overall the best option of the 3.

This said non of the 3 (Even with the 300) could compare to the 250 Active SBL's. I would say the PMC would of made a nice choice to replace passive SBL and if i had never heard active would of been very happy. But as they say somethings cannot be unheard.

So this story ends with the 135's being traded in against a new SNAXO 242 / HiCapDR / 2 x 250DR. By far the best option considered over the last few months and resolves the core issue of top end harshness and allows the SBL's to really sing. Anyone who has not tried active really should, i was not prepared for how good it was going to be. Who knows once the Kudos 606's are released i may be interested in testing them active in place of the SBL's but that is for another year !

Thanks to everyone who contributed to this and other related threads on this forum

A Massive to thanks to Rob from Adventures in HiFi, Chester for providing the opportunities to conduct all this testing and his advice over the last 10 years or so. I am not sure i have seen customer service like this in any other area of retail, something we should never under appreciate or forget.

Now the wait, curse them Uniti boxes keeping the factory busy. 

Rob

Thanks for the write-up, Rob, very informative, and great that you covered various options so thoroughly.

Hope the wait isn't too long. At least you've got something really nice to look forward to over Christmas.

Dave***t posted:

Thanks for the write-up, Rob, very informative, and great that you covered various options so thoroughly.

Hope the wait isn't too long. At least you've got something really nice to look forward to over Christmas.

Thanks

Sat listening to a ‘lowly’ ???? non DR 250, cementing decision on how good the SBL’s are, untouchable by 5k of modern speaker !

Rob 

Much as I do seem to have system ups & downs sometimes, the same combo is sounding lovely here this evening too. And that's just with Fip playing through a 272

Thanks for taking us on your journey with the SBLs.  I too have taken then from passive to active and had to deal with a number of different applification configurations.  I was very keen to hear your preference on where to put the “better” amp.  My last SBL configuratation was an olive 250 and a 300.  My preference was, against generally held views, to put the (better) 300 on the bass.  I felt that the 300 did a lot to give the bass better definition and perhaps make up for one off the SBL limitations (given its relatively compact size).

You don’t hear much about DBLs these days, but I am going through the same conundrum with them. 

Best,

Gavin

Just for future reference. Some of the finest speakers I have heard of late are by a company called Atohm, along with Proac and Dynaudio. All excellent, and all can work close to wall, depending on the room.

And all work extremely well with Naim. I have had personal experience owning two of the three brands mentioned.

If you fancy spending £10grand on a pair of speakers....check out a pair of Linn Exakt floorstanders. I had a Linn dem the other week and was totally blown away. Unfortunately I'd never get sign-off from the missus (she would divorce me) so it was just a pleasant afternoon listening to some great music. He (the dealer) sells both naim and Linn and suggested naim can work well through exakt speakers (I mean why wouldn't they?!?).

Oh....and as an aside, my Ovators (400's) are in dark ebony. Not the most attractive finish (but for £1100 I had to get them) so simply popped to my local garden centre and purchased five tall indoor plants (I already had some spare pots) to place around them (basically to hide them). Presto my other half is totally happy (as you can barely see them) and we have an Orangery with some extra foliage ????. Cost....an extra £90! 

Sometimes you have to think outside the box. 

Please.....nobody on here tell me plants are derogatory to the audio performance!!! They absolutely are not!!! 

Large leafy plants can act as good diffusors. The taller the better. Great for both the sound and aesthetics of the listening room