Expensive Cables. Are they worth the Money?

I'm saving up for when they bring out cables with a clear gel jacket filled with star particles. You squeeze the cable at those points that corresponds with your room nodes and the Atmosflat.

MDS posted:

Huge posted:

My cables come out at 1.75%!

Ah, but have you factored in your own time spent on R&D and manufacture, Huge? 

And did all the people buying their cables factor in their time doing their research as to which cables to buy, their time assessing the potential purchase and any time listening to demos?

Huge

why would they ??

if you bought a house for 500 grand, then it cost 500 grand, your stamp duty is on 500 grand not 500 grand plus your time and x’s

most of us would be doing this when we’re not at work so time is really irrelevant as a cost as there is no actual money lost

same applies to a car, pint of milk or even fancy cables 

lyndon

Lyndon,

The same equally applies to my time, hence my question.

I think that only applies if your time spent looking at cables cost you money ie you took the morning off work

if it was a Saturday or Sunday when you wasn’t going to be working anyway then your time as a financial cost is irrelevant as you would only have been down the pub, playing golf, washing the car etc

lyndon

wenger2015 posted:

Good question Haim,

what is the percentage cost for cables in our systems???

who is willing to get the ball rolling? 

I have just got back from work so I will work mine out later and post

2.65%

lyndon posted:

I think that only applies if your time spent looking at cables cost you money ie you took the morning off work

if it was a Saturday or Sunday when you wasn’t going to be working anyway then your time as a financial cost is irrelevant as you would only have been down the pub, playing golf, washing the car etc

 

lyndon

 

I only look at cables on a bank holiday.    

TOBYJUG posted:

lyndon posted:

I think that only applies if your time spent looking at cables cost you money ie you took the morning off work

if it was a Saturday or Sunday when you wasn’t going to be working anyway then your time as a financial cost is irrelevant as you would only have been down the pub, playing golf, washing the car etc

 

lyndon

 

I only look at cables on a bank holiday.    And there are sometimes, when others that try and help me look at other things at other times

I'm retired!

Huge posted:

TOBYJUG posted:

lyndon posted:

I think that only applies if your time spent looking at cables cost you money ie you took the morning off work

if it was a Saturday or Sunday when you wasn’t going to be working anyway then your time as a financial cost is irrelevant as you would only have been down the pub, playing golf, washing the car etc

 

lyndon

 

I only look at cables on a bank holiday.    And there are sometimes, when others that try and help me look at other things at other times

I'm retired!

Good for you. **** them.

2.8%

If you don't count bundled powerlines it’s around 2%, largely of un-bundled hi and powerline

Source first, cables last - and I still have the second source to sort before I muck about with cables.

I remember hearing a pair of TQ black diamond speaker cables that Wenger2015 had on demo, on my CDX2/SN combo. With my black diamond din, black and ultra blue mains cables the wires were nearly the same value as the boxes. It was the best I’d ever heard those 2 boxes sound. Currently my wires are about 15% of the system value. 

Yep cable dressing is very important, depends from system to system and on our tastes. I have a principle: if a system sound "good" with "stock" cables then worth to take a look at cable dressing. The meaning is if you have a system "matched" then go ahead, if not is hard to impossible to repair with cables whats wrong in a system.   

Finkfan posted:

I remember hearing a pair of TQ black diamond speaker cables that Wenger2015 had on demo, on my CDX2/SN combo. With my black diamond din, black and ultra blue mains cables the wires were nearly the same value as the boxes. It was the best I’d ever heard those 2 boxes sound. Currently my wires are about 15% of the system value. 

Yes, that was a revelation 

wenger2015 posted:

Good question Haim,

what is the percentage cost for cables in our systems???

who is willing to get the ball rolling? 

I have just got back from work so I will work mine out later and post

My Living room System does not consist of any Brand new gear:

Year purchased & Model Year

93~ 1989/Briks - $3.5K - Brand new $7K

14~ 2008/282 - $3.4K

14~ 2014/HCDR - $1.6K

15~ 2012/250 - $3.4K

15~ 2011/250 - $3.0K

15~ 2015/250 - $4.0K

15~ 2008/Cdx2 - 1.7K

Passive Tri-Amped Briks

Total cost of System: $20.6K

Naim Lavender ~ $79

Linn K-20 ~ $221

300/20,600 = ?

Wow!

A very low percentage!

Enjoy Your Music!

You can't miss, what you never heard.

Allante93!

PS. Less than 1.5%

I think!

My TQ blacks cables have found a new home. New wires ordered. 

Finkfan posted:

My TQ blacks cables have found a new home. New wires ordered. 

Interesting Finkfan,  so which cables have you ordered?

New cost of my 3 Naim boxes would be £8,058 and cost of cables is £510 so that's 6.3%

The 5 Pin Din was free with both the Dac and the CD5XS so didn't count that

That rises to 12.6% if I take what I actually paid for the 3 Naim's vs cost of cables

Can’t say Wenger 

Having looked through most of the comments on this thread my conclusions are as follows......

How much we are prepared to spend on cables varies considerably. 

As for Black boxes, I don’t think anyone questions their value for money. Likewise with speakers.

How you link them together to extract the best performance ranges from homemade to bargain basement to does the job to extremely expensive???

For me, not investing in high quality cables is like buying a Porsche and running it on cooking oil.....

but everyone to their own....

wenger2015 posted:

Having looked through most of the comments on this thread my conclusions are as follows......

How much we are prepared to spend on cables varies considerably. 

As for Black boxes, I don’t think anyone questions their value for money. Likewise with speakers.

How you link them together to extract the best performance ranges from homemade to bargain basement to does the job to extremely expensive???

For me, not investing in high quality cables is like buying a Porsche and running it on cooking oil.....

but everyone to their own....

I don't understand the use of the term 'investing' for buying mass produced audio gear, especially cables, when there is never a monetary return, only depreciation. You just spend money or waste it on components.

For me, over spending on cables (out of proportion to source, amplification and speakers which I think are much more essential) is like buying Ferrari wheels to mount on a tiny Honda.

You are rushing into wrong conclusions. A lot of members question the value of the black boxes, avoiding some upgrades not because they cannot afford them but because the tiny increments in sound improvement do not justify the huge price increases. Personally, I think that the cost of the top NAIM gear (and I am not talking about the Statement) is just insane.

Wenger, you still didn't manage to find a single soul who meets the criteria of 30% spent on cables that your NAIM dealer recommended. Let us know when you find one and we will send you some flowers.

Haim Ronen posted:

I don't understand the use of the term 'investing' for buying mass produced audio gear, especially cables, when there is never a monetary return, only depreciation. You just spend money or waste it on components.

Agree. I've made the same point in the past. Replies indicate that some folks here are comfortable using 'invest' and 'purchase' synonymously.

I've never invested in audio gear. I've only ever bought it and kept it to depreciate, or sold it at a loss.

(This is where original owners of an Aro pipe in)

Not 30% but currently just about 18% and making sense to my ears 

Haim Ronen, 

you use the expression  ‘only increments in sound’ between black box upgrades, that is most likely down to poor quality cables.

JoeRand, invest is not the best word to use, although black boxes do hold their value reasonably well, it’s more a case of making sure the boxes we buy work to the optimum level, hence the need for quality cables