Expensive Cables. Are they worth the Money?

Pcd posted:

Bryce, having the last two S/L cables installed three weeks ago to complete the full S/L loom I must agree something rather special they just seem to get the best out of the Black Boxes.

Nicely described, if you want to maximise the potential of the Black boxes , then high quality cables are absolutely essential.

Bryce Curdy posted:

Well I've just added a full loom Chord Music to my CD555, PS555DR, NAC552DR, NAP300DR, Sonus Faber Guarneri Tradition.  4 Music Power cables, phono interconnect, DIN-XLR and 3.5m speaker cables. Stunning results, utterly stunning. If you've listened and you're not impressed, feel free to comment. But if you've not and have a blind spot about not wanting to believe a cable(s) can sound as good as a black box upgrade don't bother because you're not qualified to comment.

Hi Bryce, 

is that your email address in your profile?

Good cables don't HAVE to be expensive, they just have to be good!

Bryce Curdy posted:

Well I've just added a full loom Chord Music to my CD555, PS555DR, NAC552DR, NAP300DR, Sonus Faber Guarneri Tradition.  4 Music Power cables, phono interconnect, DIN-XLR and 3.5m speaker cables. Stunning results, utterly stunning. If you've listened and you're not impressed, feel free to comment. But if you've not and have a blind spot about not wanting to believe a cable(s) can sound as good as a black box upgrade don't bother because you're not qualified to comment.

just a question:  your full loom chord music cables cost more than a nap500dr, if i am not wrong.  Have you compared before a nap500dr vs full loom chord music cables?   just curiosity, no critic from me.... Perhaps the sonus faber guarneri are not so power hungry?

Yes - with analogue,spdif and speaker wires.

No with RJ45 cables, why do Linn or Naim not produce any?

wenger2015 posted:

Pcd posted:

Bryce, having the last two S/L cables installed three weeks ago to complete the full S/L loom I must agree something rather special they just seem to get the best out of the Black Boxes.

Nicely described, if you want to maximise the potential of the Black boxes , then high quality cables are absolutely essential.

 

And if you want to even hear if the expensive cables are better than the cheap ones - or indeed if any cables are different from others, you need the black (or any other colour) boxes... 

Somehow I imagine (imagine I haven't tried) that expensive boxes with cheap cables are likely to sound better than cheap boxes with expensive cables, though sometimes claims made seem to suggest otherwise.

Innocent Bystander posted:

wenger2015 posted:

Pcd posted:

Bryce, having the last two S/L cables installed three weeks ago to complete the full S/L loom I must agree something rather special they just seem to get the best out of the Black Boxes.

Nicely described, if you want to maximise the potential of the Black boxes , then high quality cables are absolutely essential.

 

And if you want to even hear if the expensive cables are better than the cheap ones - or indeed if any cables are different from others, you need the black (or any other colour) boxes... 

Somehow I imagine (imagine I haven't tried) that expensive boxes with cheap cables are likely to sound better than cheap boxes with expensive cables, though sometimes claims made seem to suggest otherwise.

Yes.   As an experiment I used the methodology of professor whatsnot.   And reasoned that without the addition of cables regardless of cost in my system I could notice their contribution by absence.

I concluded that both the expensive and the cheaper cables sounded the same.

TOBYJUG posted:

Innocent Bystander posted:

wenger2015 posted:

Pcd posted:

Bryce, having the last two S/L cables installed three weeks ago to complete the full S/L loom I must agree something rather special they just seem to get the best out of the Black Boxes.

Nicely described, if you want to maximise the potential of the Black boxes , then high quality cables are absolutely essential.

 

And if you want to even hear if the expensive cables are better than the cheap ones - or indeed if any cables are different from others, you need the black (or any other colour) boxes... 

Somehow I imagine (imagine I haven't tried) that expensive boxes with cheap cables are likely to sound better than cheap boxes with expensive cables, though sometimes claims made seem to suggest otherwise.

Yes.   As an experiment I used the methodology of professor whatsnot.   And reasoned that without the addition of cables regardless of cost in my system I could notice their contribution by absence.

I concluded that both the expensive and the cheaper cables sounded the same.

Ooh, that’s a real revelation. I wonder if anyone has tried cables but without black (or other) boxes? 

Of course, with vinyl the output of a  cartridge connected directly to speakers could be audible. (Best chance with high output cartridge and high sensitivity speakers - better still high sensitivity high impedance headphones.) 

But no RIAA eq so wouldn't sound great without at least a filter circuit in line. 

TOBYJUG posted:

Innocent Bystander posted:

wenger2015 posted:

Pcd posted:

Bryce, having the last two S/L cables installed three weeks ago to complete the full S/L loom I must agree something rather special they just seem to get the best out of the Black Boxes.

Nicely described, if you want to maximise the potential of the Black boxes , then high quality cables are absolutely essential.

 

And if you want to even hear if the expensive cables are better than the cheap ones - or indeed if any cables are different from others, you need the black (or any other colour) boxes... 

Somehow I imagine (imagine I haven't tried) that expensive boxes with cheap cables are likely to sound better than cheap boxes with expensive cables, though sometimes claims made seem to suggest otherwise.

Yes.   As an experiment I used the methodology of professor whatsnot.   And reasoned that without the addition of cables regardless of cost in my system I could notice their contribution by absence.

I concluded that both the expensive and the cheaper cables sounded the same.

i understand your humor and appreciate.  But in your real profile you use nordost cables, not very cheap in fact....

Bryce Curdy posted:

Well I've just added a full loom Chord Music to my CD555, PS555DR, NAC552DR, NAP300DR, Sonus Faber Guarneri Tradition.  4 Music Power cables, phono interconnect, DIN-XLR and 3.5m speaker cables. Stunning results, utterly stunning. If you've listened and you're not impressed, feel free to comment. But if you've not and have a blind spot about not wanting to believe a cable(s) can sound as good as a black box upgrade don't bother because you're not qualified to comment.

Blimey. That’s serious cash. No doubt you’re very pleased and so is your dealer and so is Chord. You know Sally, Nigel and Alan. Did they ever think 40 years ago when Naim gave Sally opportunity to make the humble Chord Chrysalis at what 40 quid a cable, that they get a shot at getting a Naim customer to buy a full ChordMusic loom at 3800 gbp per Meter? I mean not one cable, but a full loom?

blimey.... speechless actually. I wonder what Roy George of Naim thinks if he reads about the amount of cash people are willing to part with for ChordMusic. He must wonder ? Or maybe he’s too busy to waste his time on my somewhat irrelevant or not question.

Erm... now what what my question. Yes, Erm...

why didn’t you just buy superlumina and Powerlines ?

And some questions (please take it in the spirit - it's a public forum after all)

Does your wife know you spent this amount of money?

Do your kids?

And last but not least. If the cable were made of gold would it cost 3800 per meter?

still, i'm just awed, in awe, and have to say - BLIMEY !

Have to say in context the Chord Dave costs 8500 gbp

and the Blu2 upsampler costs 8000 gbp

now this is debatable and many will argue, but there is a case for both blu2/Dave combo as being regarded as the worlds best digital source regardless of price. 

analogmusic posted:

Bryce Curdy posted:

Well I've just added a full loom Chord Music to my CD555, PS555DR, NAC552DR, NAP300DR, Sonus Faber Guarneri Tradition.  4 Music Power cables, phono interconnect, DIN-XLR and 3.5m speaker cables. Stunning results, utterly stunning. If you've listened and you're not impressed, feel free to comment. But if you've not and have a blind spot about not wanting to believe a cable(s) can sound as good as a black box upgrade don't bother because you're not qualified to comment.

Blimey. That’s serious cash

blimey.... speechless actually

Erm... now what what my question. Yes, Erm...

why didn’t you buy superlumina?

 

Bryce,

How much would it cost to do a Chord Music full loom?  Sorry if it is a rude or intrusive question and feel free not to answer but and I'm loathed to use the B word but F*** Me that is a serious investment and I for one would love to hear the results. 

I’m also somewhat in awe how ChordMusic power cables are apparently beating the Naim Powerlines?

i mean these are the same Powerlines that Naim supplied with the Statement amplifier ?

Wow.

Seriously

Wow !!!

color me impressed. 

And I’m a cable believer by the way. 

Can anyone enlighten me why there is a price difference between Sarum T and ChordMusic?

Same insulation

same cable geometry 

but 2 layers of shielding in Sarum against 7 in ChordMusic?

have I missed anything ???

Dave J posted:

Bryce Curdy posted:

Well I've just added a full loom Chord Music to my CD555, PS555DR, NAC552DR, NAP300DR, Sonus Faber Guarneri Tradition.  4 Music Power cables, phono interconnect, DIN-XLR and 3.5m speaker cables. Stunning results, utterly stunning. If you've listened and you're not impressed, feel free to comment. But if you've not and have a blind spot about not wanting to believe a cable(s) can sound as good as a black box upgrade don't bother because you're not qualified to comment.

Hi Bryce, 

is that your email address in your profile?

Yes, with the obvious at substituted for @.

Bryce Curdy posted:

Well I've just added a full loom Chord Music to my CD555, PS555DR, NAC552DR, NAP300DR, Sonus Faber Guarneri Tradition.  4 Music Power cables, phono interconnect, DIN-XLR and 3.5m speaker cables. Stunning results, utterly stunning. If you've listened and you're not impressed, feel free to comment. But if you've not and have a blind spot about not wanting to believe a cable(s) can sound as good as a black box upgrade don't bother because you're not qualified to comment.

No I’ve not heard these cables, I wasn’t impressed by superlumina when I tried an interconnect but that was a few black boxes ago. I decided to leave trying any more expensive cables until I’d finalised the boxes, which I haven’t yet. I have been very impressed by a cheap cable in the mean time however. What other cables did you try and since you’re a step or two below the top did you hear the black box alternatives? That is the 500 and Statement series.

French Rooster posted:

Bryce Curdy posted:

Well I've just added a full loom Chord Music to my CD555, PS555DR, NAC552DR, NAP300DR, Sonus Faber Guarneri Tradition.  4 Music Power cables, phono interconnect, DIN-XLR and 3.5m speaker cables. Stunning results, utterly stunning. If you've listened and you're not impressed, feel free to comment. But if you've not and have a blind spot about not wanting to believe a cable(s) can sound as good as a black box upgrade don't bother because you're not qualified to comment.

just a question:  your full loom chord music cables cost more than a nap500dr, if i am not wrong.  Have you compared before a nap500dr vs full loom chord music cables?   just curiosity, no critic from me.... Perhaps the sonus faber guarneri are not so power hungry?

I have heard a NAP500 (non DR) on a few occasions and was very impressed.  I have never carried out a NAP300 v NAP500 head to head comparison.  I would struggle to find the space for a NAP500.  I posted on the system pics thread a couple of weeks ago and while my listening room is quite big overall, it is tight where my speakers are positioned which is why I went for the best but relatively small speakers I could afford.  I don't know how the Guarneris would sound with a NAP500DR.

What I am qualified to say is that the improvement with the Music full loom exceeded the improvement I enjoyed when upgrading from a NAC82 to a NAC552, comfortably.  Some will regard that comment as controversial and the caveats of my system, my ears and my room (in my previous home) apply.

Pcd posted:

Bryce, having the last two S/L cables installed three weeks ago to complete the full S/L loom I must agree something rather special they just seem to get the best out of the Black Boxes.

I don't particularly want to reignite the Chord v S/L fire.  I thought even the Sarum Tuned Aray was night and day better than S/L.  Music is another level again, possibly two levels actually.  My dealer agrees although thinks that the posh Naim cables work best in all Naim/Focal systems.

Bob the Builder posted:

analogmusic posted:

Bryce Curdy posted:

Well I've just added a full loom Chord Music to my CD555, PS555DR, NAC552DR, NAP300DR, Sonus Faber Guarneri Tradition.  4 Music Power cables, phono interconnect, DIN-XLR and 3.5m speaker cables. Stunning results, utterly stunning. If you've listened and you're not impressed, feel free to comment. But if you've not and have a blind spot about not wanting to believe a cable(s) can sound as good as a black box upgrade don't bother because you're not qualified to comment.

Blimey. That’s serious cash

blimey.... speechless actually

Erm... now what what my question. Yes, Erm...

why didn’t you buy superlumina?

 

Bryce,

How much would it cost to do a Chord Music full loom?  Sorry if it is a rude or intrusive question and feel free not to answer but and I'm loathed to use the B word but F*** Me that is a serious investment and I for one would love to hear the results. 

I was upgrading so I don't know exactly although the prices are on the Chord website.  Based on three power cables and 3.5m speaker cable length I think it's around £30k without any trade in.

analogmusic posted:

Bryce Curdy posted:

Well I've just added a full loom Chord Music to my CD555, PS555DR, NAC552DR, NAP300DR, Sonus Faber Guarneri Tradition.  4 Music Power cables, phono interconnect, DIN-XLR and 3.5m speaker cables. Stunning results, utterly stunning. If you've listened and you're not impressed, feel free to comment. But if you've not and have a blind spot about not wanting to believe a cable(s) can sound as good as a black box upgrade don't bother because you're not qualified to comment.

Blimey. That’s serious cash. No doubt you’re very pleased and so is your dealer and so is Chord. You know Sally, Nigel and Alan. Did they ever think 40 years ago when Naim gave Sally opportunity to make the humble Chord Chrysalis at what 40 quid a cable, that they get a shot at getting a Naim customer to buy a full ChordMusic loom at 3800 gbp per Meter? I mean not one cable, but a full loom?

blimey.... speechless actually. I wonder what Roy George of Naim thinks if he reads about the amount of cash people are willing to part with for ChordMusic. He must wonder ? Or maybe he’s too busy to waste his time on my somewhat irrelevant or not question.

Erm... now what what my question. Yes, Erm...

why didn’t you just buy superlumina and Powerlines ?

And some questions (please take it in the spirit - it's a public forum after all)

Does your wife know you spent this amount of money?

Do your kids?

And last but not least. If the cable were made of gold would it cost 3800 per meter?

still, i'm just awed, in awe, and have to say - BLIMEY !

 

Alan (who I have known since his days at Stereo Stereo in Glasgow) was kind enough to do a home dem a few weeks ago.

it is crazy money but people who just assume that cables cannot possibly make the sort of difference a box can need to lose the blinkers.  I completely respect the views of people who have taken the time to listen and concluded that they're not worth it.

No, Mrs C does not know.  I don't have kids which maybe explains things Very slightly!

I've answered the S/L and Powerline question above.

yeti42 posted:

Bryce Curdy posted:

Well I've just added a full loom Chord Music to my CD555, PS555DR, NAC552DR, NAP300DR, Sonus Faber Guarneri Tradition.  4 Music Power cables, phono interconnect, DIN-XLR and 3.5m speaker cables. Stunning results, utterly stunning. If you've listened and you're not impressed, feel free to comment. But if you've not and have a blind spot about not wanting to believe a cable(s) can sound as good as a black box upgrade don't bother because you're not qualified to comment.

No I’ve not heard these cables, I wasn’t impressed by superlumina when I tried an interconnect but that was a few black boxes ago. I decided to leave trying any more expensive cables until I’d finalised the boxes, which I haven’t yet. I have been very impressed by a cheap cable in the mean time however. What other cables did you try and since you’re a step or two below the top did you hear the black box alternatives? That is the 500 and Statement series.

NAP500 answered above.  Statement is well out my price bracket.

I was totally won over by Chord a while back with Sarum Tuned Aray.  Sarum Super Aray was incrementally better, Sarum T was a huge step up compared to SA, and the step up from Sarum T to Music was even bigger.

I'll be honest that I've never listened to the likes of Nordost and am open to criticism for spending this amount of cash without painstakingly auditioning all the options.  I have a dealer I have known for nearly 30 years whose judgment I trust.

Just pulling your leg. 

Congratulations are in order. 

I absoluely must hear these Chord Music cables and hear what the fuss is about.

its a fun hobby after all and this is part of the fun too !!!

The Chord Music Ethernet Cable was a revelation. It blew the best audioquest cable out of the water and kicked it’s ass even when it was crying while getting dry....

Now the other question is if we would be willing to spent 4K on an ethernetcable........

In a word no.....

Absolutely never.

Not for Ethernet.

i don’t care what Nigel Finn and Chord says I’m not interested at all.  

Definitely maybe!

Peter