Expensive Cables. Are they worth the Money?

tonym posted:

Analogmusic, please give this up. No matter how you try and justify your own opinion, those of us who happen to prefer different cables to yourself will never change our opinions, nor will our views be any less relevant than yours.

Understand that each system is different and reacts in different ways to whatever one happens to introduce into it. SL interconnect was very poor in my system, Chord Super Sarum was considerably better. I've no doubt that others might find the opposite - the only important thing? There are no rules. 

Yes Tony, I already knew some people won't change their minds. I've said what I had to say, life moves on.

As Emre said "it might be placebo but who cares  if  it cures you..."

I wanted to ask you, did you finally buy the Chord Dave? 

tonym posted:

Analogmusic, please give this up. No matter how you try and justify your own opinion, those of us who happen to prefer different cables to yourself will never change our opinions, nor will our views be any less relevant than yours.

Understand that each system is different and reacts in different ways to whatever one happens to introduce into it. SL interconnect was very poor in my system, Chord Super Sarum was considerably better. I've no doubt that others might find the opposite - the only important thing? There are no rules. 

And I think Tony has nicely explained why some get tired and emotional when the dreaded subject of posh cables is brought up. I happen to have an opposing view to Tony but I entirely accept his view (conviction) that Chord Sarum cables sounded better than SL in his system in his room using his aural receptors. The opposite was the case for me when I carried out the same comparison. We are both right.

Maybe it is because cable SQ is so system/room/personal preference dependent that some simply can't accept a polar opposite view.

I suggest we all relax and listen to some music with our chosen cables.

Seasons greetings to all on the forum from chez NigelB.

A nice way to hopefully draw a line under this never ending discussion....

Gazza posted:

A nice way to hopefully draw a line under this never ending discussion....

Nah - it's only at page 13. We should be able to get to page 25 by Christmas... 

I always get confused by this Chord company. Is it the same brand that makes cables, Hugo Daves and those huge monster power amps that glow in the dark. Or are there two of them ????

If it is two companies are they related in any way ?

TOBYJUG posted:

I always get confused by this Chord company. Is it the same brand that makes cables, Hugo Daves and those huge monster power amps that glow in the dark ????

Same name, different company. One makes hideous looking kit, the other hideously priced cables

Gazza posted:

A nice way to hopefully draw a line under this never ending discussion....

The discussion is interesting, just gets pointless and tedious when it becomes dogma and rubbishing others' considered conclusions.

james n posted:

TOBYJUG posted:

I always get confused by this Chord company. Is it the same brand that makes cables, Hugo Daves and those huge monster power amps that glow in the dark ????

Same name, different company. One makes hideous individual, interesting looking kit, the other hideously priced cables

james n posted:

TOBYJUG posted:

I always get confused by this Chord company. Is it the same brand that makes cables, Hugo Daves and those huge monster power amps that glow in the dark ????

Same name, different company. One makes hideous looking kit, the other hideously priced cables

Together they were the inspiration for Roy George’s “Do You Really Want To Hurt Me”. 

james n posted:

TOBYJUG posted:

I always get confused by this Chord company. Is it the same brand that makes cables, Hugo Daves and those huge monster power amps that glow in the dark ????

Same name, different company. One makes hideous looking kit, the other hideously priced cables

siltech triple crown speakers cable/ 2X3m:  60 k

siltech double crown power cord:  15k

siltech double crown interconnect:  13k

So if you take these siltech cables for a statement system, you have:  

-  60k speakers cables

- 4 X 15 k power cords:  60k

- 3X 13k interconnects;  around 40k

- kharma veyron power block: 20 k

- critical mass rack: 20k

Total cost for cables, power block and rack:  200k   

chord music cables are cheap vs these.....  

Innocent Bystander posted:

A question re mains cables: if they make such a difference, and if Naim feels the Powerline is the solution, why don’t Naim power supplies have captive cables (with Powerline 13A plug, or other for different markets), thereby removing the additional socket/plug coupling at the back of the unit?

And if concern was what if a better plug we’re to come along, then the answer would simply be that the upgrade would be a change of plug, or better still use a direct cable outlet on the mains not a socket, removing the need for any plug/socket pairing... (with due attention to wiring regs for safety)

...because then you couldn't upgrade the cable...

tonym posted:

- the only important thing? There are no rules. 

The rule is there are no rules? Welcome to the fundamental paradox of Anarchy; the dynamic processes of which I have more than a little practical experience in Asgard.

Loki posted:

Innocent Bystander posted:

A question re mains cables: if they make such a difference, and if Naim feels the Powerline is the solution, why don’t Naim power supplies have captive cables (with Powerline 13A plug, or other for different markets), thereby removing the additional socket/plug coupling at the back of the unit?

And if concern was what if a better plug we’re to come along, then the answer would simply be that the upgrade would be a change of plug, or better still use a direct cable outlet on the mains not a socket, removing the need for any plug/socket pairing... (with due attention to wiring regs for safety)

...because then you couldn't upgrade the cable...

Why not?

The cost of having a new cable fitted would be negligible compared to the cost of some of the cables discussed on here (and with one connector less on he cable it should itself be considerably less expensive).

I’m still debating if I should ask Santa for a TQ Silver Diamond interconnect or upgrade my Xpsdr to 555ps,  I know which one is easier to get down the chimney...

cat345 posted:

Huge posted:

No cabling's not part of the amplification process, cables are passive!

Unlike many 3rd party "high end" cables, SL cables have a significantly high manufacturing cost, and would considerably increase the selling price of the black boxes.

(OK, well the Statement and 500 series may be able to absorb the cost without too much increase, but it would have a substantial effect on the cost of the components in the other series).

That is a little difficult for me to believe as there is no precious metals in these cables.  I don't think it has a higher manufacturing cost than adding the cost of all parts you can find in a humble NAP100 among others which sell for half the price a pair of SuperLumina interconnects.

Actually the cost of manufacturing and assembling the mechanical parts of the DIN Air Plug is quite considerable, it's here where the cost lies not in the materials cost (and the components cost and board stuffing for a NAP100 is cheap by comparison).

French Rooster posted:

Huge posted:

As I said before, currently the sound via the LAN is indistinguishable from the sound when the LAN is disconnected and the files are played locally from a USB stick.  If the "audiophile" LAN cable makes it sound any different, then it's actually degrading the sound quality, not improving it.

normally it must sound better than with usb stick!  this usb stick entry is more for convenience.   

The amount of processing to extract a file from a USB stick is less than that required to process a set of network packets containing the data for a media stream.  It's the internal processing of the data befor they are presented to the DAC that limits the quality.  Ergo the data from the memory stick can be read with less PSU noise than from the network.

Getting the network to sound the same as a USB stick* is as good as it gets.

*  A few USB sticks - typically older and larger capacity ones - are actually more noisy than the network due to their higher current demand.  Try a few and pick a lower noise one for the comparison.

Huge posted:

French Rooster posted:

Huge posted:

As I said before, currently the sound via the LAN is indistinguishable from the sound when the LAN is disconnected and the files are played locally from a USB stick.  If the "audiophile" LAN cable makes it sound any different, then it's actually degrading the sound quality, not improving it.

normally it must sound better than with usb stick!  this usb stick entry is more for convenience.   

The amount of processing to extract a file from a USB stick is less than that required to process a set of network packets containing the data for a media stream.  It's the internal processing of the data befor they are presented to the DAC that limits the quality.  Ergo the data from the memory stick can be read with less PSU noise than from the network.

Getting the network to sound the same as a USB stick* is as good as it gets.

*  A few USB sticks - typically older and larger capacity ones - are actually more noisy than the network due to their higher current demand.  Try a few and pick a lower noise one for the comparison.

i have an nds/555dr and unitserve. At the beginning, with common lan cables i have and no dedicated switch, the usb sticks sound nearly the same vs streaming. I used scandisk ssd low memory stick and lacie porsche design too. The lacie was used in a naim statement demo in a show.

But some months after, with a cisco 2960 dedicated switch, audioquest vodka lan cables and lan isolation ( fmc, optical cables and linear ps/ network bridge), the sound with streaming the files from my unitserve with the nds vs usb stick in the nds was much much better: more openness, better dynamics, more body and true tones colors.

Sorry, but bits are not just bits. You must try first, your knowledge has not all the answers may i think.

I suggest you to go to “computer audiophile “site, a lot of things are explained by specialists. I discovered the network bridge in this site.

Huge posted:

cat345 posted:

Huge posted:

No cabling's not part of the amplification process, cables are passive!

Unlike many 3rd party "high end" cables, SL cables have a significantly high manufacturing cost, and would considerably increase the selling price of the black boxes.

(OK, well the Statement and 500 series may be able to absorb the cost without too much increase, but it would have a substantial effect on the cost of the components in the other series).

That is a little difficult for me to believe as there is no precious metals in these cables.  I don't think it has a higher manufacturing cost than adding the cost of all parts you can find in a humble NAP100 among others which sell for half the price a pair of SuperLumina interconnects.

Actually the cost of manufacturing and assembling the mechanical parts of the DIN Air Plug is quite considerable, it's here where the cost lies not in the materials cost (and the components cost and board stuffing for a NAP100 is cheap by comparison).

That may be true Huge as I have no knowledge about the manufacturing process of the air plugs. 

analogmusic posted:

Bob the Builder posted:

analogmusic posted:

and the SL also whipped and walked all over the Chord Super Array for bass in the same way.

It depends on what is being measured and what is of importance.

For me a Naim system without awesome tight, controlled and articulated bass is not performing as Naim and Roy George intended.

Of course it's not the only thing that I listen for, but this is where the Naim cables dominate - in the words on another forum member "in a not so subtle way"

Incidentally Steve Sells who designed the statement, uses 2 (!!) Naim N-subs at home with his SBL's.

 

What's Boy George got to do with it?

Roy George of Naim audio

IT WAS A JOKE >> BOY << I SAID >> BOY << GEORGE  not Roy George >> BOY << GEORGE the bloke from Culture Club all make up and dreadlocks.  It was a bad joke I know but pay attention please 

Bob the Builder posted:

analogmusic posted:

Bob the Builder posted:

analogmusic posted:

and the SL also whipped and walked all over the Chord Super Array for bass in the same way.

It depends on what is being measured and what is of importance.

For me a Naim system without awesome tight, controlled and articulated bass is not performing as Naim and Roy George intended.

Of course it's not the only thing that I listen for, but this is where the Naim cables dominate - in the words on another forum member "in a not so subtle way"

Incidentally Steve Sells who designed the statement, uses 2 (!!) Naim N-subs at home with his SBL's.

 

What's Boy George got to do with it?

 

Roy George of Naim audio

IT WAS A JOKE >> BOY << I SAID >> BOY << GEORGE  not Roy George >> BOY << GEORGE the bloke from Culture Club all make up and dreadlocks.  It was a bad joke I know but pay attention please 

And there was me believing Boy George had become a guru on music standards linked to Naim...

Innocent Bystander posted:

Bob the Builder posted:

analogmusic posted:

Bob the Builder posted:

analogmusic posted:

and the SL also whipped and walked all over the Chord Super Array for bass in the same way.

It depends on what is being measured and what is of importance.

For me a Naim system without awesome tight, controlled and articulated bass is not performing as Naim and Roy George intended.

Of course it's not the only thing that I listen for, but this is where the Naim cables dominate - in the words on another forum member "in a not so subtle way"

Incidentally Steve Sells who designed the statement, uses 2 (!!) Naim N-subs at home with his SBL's.

 

What's Boy George got to do with it?

 

Roy George of Naim audio

IT WAS A JOKE >> BOY << I SAID >> BOY << GEORGE  not Roy George >> BOY << GEORGE the bloke from Culture Club all make up and dreadlocks.  It was a bad joke I know but pay attention please 

And there was me believing Boy George had become a guru on music standards linked to Naim...

I would take as much notice of him as Roy George IB either one of them could tell me fairy dust powered my Naim amps and I wouldn't care.

Bob the Builder posted:

Innocent Bystander posted:

Bob the Builder posted:

analogmusic posted:

 

Roy George of Naim audio

IT WAS A JOKE >> BOY << I SAID >> BOY << GEORGE  not Roy George >> BOY << GEORGE the bloke from Culture Club all make up and dreadlocks.  It was a bad joke I know but pay attention please 

And there was me believing Boy George had become a guru on music standards linked to Naim...

I would take as much notice of him as Roy George IB either one of them could tell me fairy dust powered my Naim amps and I wouldn't care.

What???? Do you mean it doesn’t??????

Some people have much the same understanding of electricity and fairy dust...  so...  

Yeah, I gather there is actually a difference: fairy dust is gifted to you, but you pay for electricity. Which prompts a question: why, when we buy our electrons from the electricity supplier, don’t we get a refund when they go back to the supplier down the other wire... seems like we’re being diddled somehow. 

Interesting analogy     Actually I think it’s the pressure of 'electrons’ you are buying from your utility provider.... no pressure, no supply...