Expensive Cables. Are they worth the Money?

Ah!, it must be that American fairies are a little bit smaller, so they beat their wings faster and generate less pressure!

Scientists just recently discovered that Oumaumau, the alien turd from another solar system that passed through our own - was covered with a thick crust of Organic Fairy Dust.       Much better quality than our terrestrial stuff.   Imagine what hifi could be made if we managed to get our hands on it !!

Innocent Bystander posted:

Loki posted:

...because then you couldn't upgrade the cable...

Why not?

The cost of having a new cable fitted would be negligible compared to the cost of some of the cables discussed on here (and with one connector less on he cable it should itself be considerably less expensive).

well, because it sounded like you were only interested in captive cables, but if you have the nous, then-indeed, why not? Although it is significantly easier to swap cables for testing or upgrading using the plug and socket method.

Huge posted:

Ah!, it must be that American fairies are a little bit smaller, so they beat their wings faster and generate less pressure!

Yep  60 times a second compared to euro fairies 50 times

Loki posted:

Innocent Bystander posted:

Loki posted:

...because then you couldn't upgrade the cable...

Why not?

The cost of having a new cable fitted would be negligible compared to the cost of some of the cables discussed on here (and with one connector less on he cable it should itself be considerably less expensive).

well, because it sounded like you were only interested in captive cables, but if you have the nous, then-indeed, why not? Although it is significantly easier to swap cables for testing or upgrading using the plug and socket method.

Personally I’ve always preferred gear with detachable cable, making it easy and convenient to substitute different lengths (including making up much own), especially if there may be a warranty issue with opening a case. However, in the strict interests of sound quality, if the mains plugs/sockets can have a bearing, then it is patently obvious that avoiding them at one end of the cable removes on source of degradation, and one potentially expensive coupling - yet strangely that is not done with high end kit, yet is done with cheapo stuff (where the purpose is to save the £1 or two cost of the plug/socke)

Simon-in-Suffolk posted:

Interesting analogy     Actually I think it’s the pressure of 'electrons’ you are buying from your utility provider.... no pressure, no supply...

Hmm, the pressure (voltage) is there even if you don’t throw the switch. Electricity charging is based on the quantitative movement of charge under the applied pressure, so that is indeed the movement of electrons...

Are you sure .. you only have pressure if there is something to resist... an open switch means there is nothing resisting so no pressure... ... so... there is potential to ground yes.. but no pressure or current.... unless there is a path or flow to ground...  pressure is analogous to current, and potential analogous to voltage... we pay for energy (joules) which is pressure x potential / time .... if the pressure is zero, then the energy consumed is zero, even though the potential could be a million volts. Current is essentially electron flow... and of course with AC the average flow of electrons over integer time of cycles, if you are thing of physical displacement, and there is a flow to ground, ie pressure, is zero.

Ooooh….thread diversion is taking hold. Only a matter of time now before these 14 (yes 14!) pages about posh cables is moved to the Padded Cell.

we have already been to the padded cell and back, so best get back on track.....

at least everyone is agreed now, the high end cables justify their price tag.....

wenger2015 posted:

we have already been to the padded cell and back, so best get back on track.....

at least everyone is agreed now, the high end cables justify their price tag.....

Now there's an inflammatory remark that is sure to get this back on track…….

From a SuperLumina full loomist (or should that be full loony).

Ah, but this is still about the cables, because it is what they do,carry electrons!

Amps aren’t pressure, as amps are simply measure of the charge carried per second, and that depends on the voltage (which I suggest is analogous to pressure) and the resistance through which it flows. The open switch is more analogous to a very high resistance, in practical terms infinite. (Unless the voltage gradient gets high enough to ionise the air...)

Meanwhile it would still be interesting to lear if people have an arbitrary cutoff for what they would consider, and whether it varies by cable function. (And maybe whether it might change if they were to win a lottery jackpot!)

Innocent Bystander posted:

Meanwhile it would still be interesting to lear if people have an arbitrary cutoff for what they would consider, and whether it varies by cable function. (And maybe whether it might change if they were to win a lottery jackpot!)

Interesting question? 

Of course if the numbers were to come up I think most of the sceptics here would be having a change of heart? 

Innocent Bystander posted:

Loki posted:

Innocent Bystander posted:

Loki posted:

...because then you couldn't upgrade the cable...

Why not?

The cost of having a new cable fitted would be negligible compared to the cost of some of the cables discussed on here (and with one connector less on he cable it should itself be considerably less expensive).

well, because it sounded like you were only interested in captive cables, but if you have the nous, then-indeed, why not? Although it is significantly easier to swap cables for testing or upgrading using the plug and socket method.

Personally I’ve always preferred gear with detachable cable, making it easy and convenient to substitute different lengths (including making up much own), especially if there may be a warranty issue with opening a case. However, in the strict interests of sound quality, if the mains plugs/sockets can have a bearing, then it is patently obvious that avoiding them at one end of the cable removes on source of degradation, and one potentially expensive coupling - yet strangely that is not done with high end kit, yet is done with cheapo stuff (where the purpose is to save the £1 or two cost of the plug/socke)

This is a question I have asked once but it seem that the powerline connector at the box end sounded better than a captive cord directly welded to the transformer! 

Still have doubts about that one...

Innocent Bystander posted:

Meanwhile it would still be interesting to lear if people have an arbitrary cutoff for what they would consider, and whether it varies by cable function. (And maybe whether it might change if they were to win a lottery jackpot!)

Why would anyone place an 'arbitrary' cut-off on cables? Does anyone place an 'arbitrary' cut-off on boxes? There is a cost level which my financial position would struggle to accommodate, but that is not in any way 'arbitrary'. I am looking to see what a second hand kidney might fetch, though.

If there are arbitrary cut-offs for posh cable prices then I would imagine this is a movable feast as you move up and down the prejudice scale and as you gain experience from actually demoing such cables. So if anyone does offer a cut-off figure I would suggest it might be a temporary one.

I you would have asked me the question a very few years ago I would have given you a cut-off number that is a fraction of that I would give you today. So maybe the more relevant questions are….where do you self-assess yourself on the prejudice scale where 1 is a total (posh cable) sceptic and 10 is total acceptance of the contribution and value posh cables offer in terms of SQ……and have you moved along this scale (in either direction)?

See Wenger, totally back on track after your mischievous remark. 

Hook posted:

james n posted:

TOBYJUG posted:

I always get confused by this Chord company. Is it the same brand that makes cables, Hugo Daves and those huge monster power amps that glow in the dark ????

Same name, different company. One makes hideous looking kit, the other hideously priced cables

Together they were the inspiration for Roy George’s “Do You Really Want To Hurt Me”. 

The boy only got as far as...

"Karma Karma Karma Karma, Chord Chameleon..."   

well to me, the cut-off  levels for cables is the pricing of Superlumina, and also Powerlines.

nigelb posted:

If there are arbitrary cut-offs for posh cable prices then I would imagine this is a movable feast as you move up and down the prejudice scale and as you gain experience from actually demoing such cables. So if anyone does offer a cut-off figure I would suggest it might be a temporary one.

I you would have asked me the question a very few years ago I would have given you a cut-off number that is a fraction of that I would give you today. So maybe the more relevant questions are….where do you self-assess yourself on the prejudice scale where 1 is a total (posh cable) sceptic and 10 is total acceptance of the contribution and value posh cables offer in terms of SQ……and have you moved along this scale (in either direction)?

See Wenger, totally back on track after your mischievous remark. 

When my original dealer suggested back in the day that approx 30% of ones hifi budget be spent on cables ......I was definitely a 1......many years later I am now a 10. 

wenger2015 posted:

nigelb posted:

If there are arbitrary cut-offs for posh cable prices then I would imagine this is a movable feast as you move up and down the prejudice scale and as you gain experience from actually demoing such cables. So if anyone does offer a cut-off figure I would suggest it might be a temporary one.

I you would have asked me the question a very few years ago I would have given you a cut-off number that is a fraction of that I would give you today. So maybe the more relevant questions are….where do you self-assess yourself on the prejudice scale where 1 is a total (posh cable) sceptic and 10 is total acceptance of the contribution and value posh cables offer in terms of SQ……and have you moved along this scale (in either direction)?

See Wenger, totally back on track after your mischievous remark. 

When my original dealer suggested back in the day that approx 30% of ones hifi budget be spent on cables ......I was definitely a 1......many years later I am now a 10. 

Pretty much my journey too, although I have always suspected cables play a part in the final SQ than emerges from your speakers so I probably started at 2.5.

As this scale might gain some traction, I suggest we refer to it as the 'accsceptance' scale. 

nigelb posted:

wenger2015 posted:

nigelb posted:

If there are arbitrary cut-offs for posh cable prices then I would imagine this is a movable feast as you move up and down the prejudice scale and as you gain experience from actually demoing such cables. So if anyone does offer a cut-off figure I would suggest it might be a temporary one.

I you would have asked me the question a very few years ago I would have given you a cut-off number that is a fraction of that I would give you today. So maybe the more relevant questions are….where do you self-assess yourself on the prejudice scale where 1 is a total (posh cable) sceptic and 10 is total acceptance of the contribution and value posh cables offer in terms of SQ……and have you moved along this scale (in either direction)?

See Wenger, totally back on track after your mischievous remark. 

When my original dealer suggested back in the day that approx 30% of ones hifi budget be spent on cables ......I was definitely a 1......many years later I am now a 10. 

Pretty much my journey too, although I have always suspected cables play a part in the final SQ than emerges from your speakers so I probably started at 2.5.

As this scale might gain some traction, I suggest we refer to it as the 'accsceptance' scale. 

Hey, your on form today....brilliant....

analogmusic posted:

well to me, the cut-off  levels for cables is the pricing of Superlumina, and also Powerlines.

 

 

Until there is a Superlinina PL. 

I’m retired now, so incone doesn’t allow for any major upgrades, but if our plan to downscale our house (3.5 years and counting so far) actually happens then I’ll have a bit of dosh to play with.

But there’s a hefty wish list: DR the 552/500; demo Fact 12 vs Kudos 707; demo cable upgrades. And it will probably go in that order...except that the budget won’t stretch to it all so after the amp upgrades I may try Sarum T (but probably not Music, though never say never) with my current speakers.

nigelb posted:

If there are arbitrary cut-offs for posh cable prices then I would imagine this is a movable feast as you move up and down the prejudice scale and as you gain experience from actually demoing such cables. So if anyone does offer a cut-off figure I would suggest it might be a temporary one.

I you would have asked me the question a very few years ago I would have given you a cut-off number that is a fraction of that I would give you today. So maybe the more relevant questions are….where do you self-assess yourself on the prejudice scale where 1 is a total (posh cable) sceptic and 10 is total acceptance of the contribution and value posh cables offer in terms of SQ……and have you moved along this scale (in either direction)?

See Wenger, totally back on track after your mischievous remark. 

Historically probably a 3 for interconnect and speaker cable and a 1 for power cables.  Now a 10 for all of them.

analogmusic posted:

well to me, the cut-off  levels for cables is the pricing of Superlumina, and also Powerlines.

 

 

Why?  So you would consider a non-Naim cable that cost the same as Superlumina and Powerlines but not one that cost £1 more however good it sounded.  I really don't understand your position.  With the greatest respect it seems slightly blinkered.

What if Naim doubled (or halved) their cable prices tomorrow?