Expensive Cables. Are they worth the Money?

Innocent Bystander posted:

Meanwhile it would still be interesting to lear if people have an arbitrary cutoff for what they would consider, and whether it varies by cable function. (And maybe whether it might change if they were to win a lottery jackpot!)

It is an interesting question. I speak as one who bought a Powerline (ex dem) so I am not a complete sceptic. However, whilst I agree that cables can make a difference, even if I had a lottery win I just could not stomach paying the level of mark up involved with the high end of the cable world. I have no plans to buy any more but if I did  then something around £1000 per wire would be an insurmountable psychological barrier. Possibly if the new mansion I bought had a huge (no pun intended!) room I would go to £100 per metre for the speaker wires.

No matter how much money I had, I just wouldn't - not to say people that do are wrong, it's just how I feel.

Bryce Curdy posted:

analogmusic posted:

well to me, the cut-off  levels for cables is the pricing of Superlumina, and also Powerlines.

 

 

Why?  So you would consider a non-Naim cable that cost the same as Superlumina and Powerlines but not one that cost £1 more however good it sounded.  I really don't understand your position.  With the greatest respect it seems slightly blinkered.

What if Naim doubled (or halved) their cable prices tomorrow?

I think that he would emphatically not consider any non-Naim brand of cable but would pay whatever price Naim put on SL or Powerline, is that right?

I don’t have any psychological hang-ups about cable pricing in relation to any other element of hi-fi gear. What I am prepared to pay is based upon what the cable (or any other bit of kit) does in relation to the same outlay elsewhere on the system, whether I consider that to be of real value, and whether I have the budget available. Allocating budget on a strict notional basis doesn’t make any sense to me whatsoever (“oh sh*t, that cable sounds fabulous but I can’t buy it because it would exceed my 30% allocation of budget...”).

I remember my indignation at the price of the Linn Keel when they first came out and started listening elsewhere. As it turned out, I didn’t find anything else that floated my boat and, after auditioning it and having the money available, ate humble pie and bought one and haven’t regretted it ever since.  

Think also what it used to be like here before Naim launched SL. The fact that it carries a Naim label has massively softened attitudes towards cable pricing.

Dave J posted:

Bryce Curdy posted:

analogmusic posted:

well to me, the cut-off  levels for cables is the pricing of Superlumina, and also Powerlines.

 

 

Why?  So you would consider a non-Naim cable that cost the same as Superlumina and Powerlines but not one that cost £1 more however good it sounded.  I really don't understand your position.  With the greatest respect it seems slightly blinkered.

What if Naim doubled (or halved) their cable prices tomorrow?

I think that he would emphatically not consider any non-Naim brand of cable but would pay whatever price Naim put on SL or Powerline, is that right?

Dave J - I didn't particularly like the prices of Superlumina and still don't.

But in my efforts to try and save money - I've heard all the alternatives - and for what I value in music, SL are the best cables.

It isn't about a Naim logo, it's all about the performance in a Naim context and getting the passion and energy of the performance.

Again my opinion only.

For one of my systems, I have a Core, a 272 and a 250 DR.  I am driving Burmester B10 speakers.  I am a believer in cables - I’ve used many good ones over the years with other systems, and I have heard a difference.  For my Naim system I am driving my speakers with Crystal Cable Reference cables.  I have a Siltech power cable for my 250 DR.  I have connected the digital out from the Core to the 272 using a Siltech digital cable.  And now I’m contemplating the SL DIN to XLR cable.  I believe that good cables do improve the sound.

docmark posted:

For one of my systems, I have a Core, a 272 and a 250 DR.  I am driving Burmester B10 speakers.  I am a believer in cables - I’ve used many good ones over the years with other systems, and I have heard a difference.  For my Naim system I am driving my speakers with Crystal Cable Reference cables.  I have a Siltech power cable for my 250 DR.  I have connected the digital out from the Core to the 272 using a Siltech digital cable.  And now I’m contemplating the SL DIN to XLR cable.  I believe that good cables do improve the sound.

Might need to increase the upper end of the 'Accsceptance' scale!

I confess to not having read every reply in this massive thread and chime in just in case nobody has mentioned it.

While listening to music has some physiological elements to it, how we perceive the music is a psychological process.  That being the case, expectations and other forms of bias enter into it. Those who deny that "cables matter" don't hear an improvement. Those who paid serious money and expect an improvement, hear it.

I'm just trying to optimize the investment already made and better cables (oh ya...and cable dressing) deliver an improvement to my ears. I really don't mind or care if some believe science doesn't support it. I hear it in my home while listening to music.  

On a related note: Just decided to buy some Transparent Audio speaker cables. Their pricing model is shocking. They have several different levels and the price doubles with each level. Entry level: $100USD for 8 feet, then $200, $400, $800, $1600, $3600...and there are 4 levels above $3600 taking prices into the stratosphere.  VFM is another whole discussion.

High end cables are "worth it"?

Those of us with Krell power amps have been using Transparent cables for decades. Their prices are frightening, but then the sound quality is equally astonishing.

Long before Naim figured out how to make decent cables, some of us were enjoying the benefits of this essential part of the hiring chain. Despite claims, at that time that cables (and speakers for that matter) were almost insignificant.

Good to see that Naim, Chord and their followers now have a decent range of choices.

I would also say, before any of us cable believers part with our cash, we would have had an extensive home dem first.

In my own case, I compared TQ Ultra Silver, then Black Diamonds, then Silver Diamonds and also Naim Super Lumina. 

So I personally was not willing one cable to be better then another, I was just wanting to buy the best for my system that I was able to do at the time.

Don Atkinson posted:

Those of us with Krell power amps have been using Transparent cables for decades. Their prices are frightening, but then the sound quality is equally astonishing.

Long before Naim figured out how to make decent cables, some of us were enjoying the benefits of this essential part of the hiring chain. Despite claims, at that time that cables (and speakers for that matter) were almost insignificant.

Good to see that Naim, Chord and their followers now have a decent range of choices.

Once again Naim never said cables were insignicant.  They said that they hadn’t found any that were better than their standard offering.  

better in what context needs to be mentioned.

For Naim it was always timing and engagement first.

Until Superlumina they never could improve or maintain  the phase/timing while improving on other hi-fi qualities such as resolution, soundstage, etc.

Yeah okay Analogue in context.    

The Strat (Fender) posted:

 

Once again Naim never said cables were insignicant.  They said that they hadn’t found any that were better than their standard offering.  

Goes to show just how good three amp mains cable can be.............

I wonder if anyone bought themselves any expensive cables for Xmas? 

wenger2015 posted:

I wonder if anyone bought themselves any expensive cables for Xmas? 

 

Guilty as charged, purchased a pair of 4 pin Din to XLR Super Lumina to make up the full S/L loom and yes expensive cables do make a difference.

Pcd posted:

wenger2015 posted:

I wonder if anyone bought themselves any expensive cables for Xmas? 

 

Guilty as charged, purchased a pair of 4 pin Din to XLR Super Lumina to make up the full S/L loom and yes expensive cables do make a difference.

Is that a positive or negative difference? ()

...Of course they make a difference ...to the wallet if nothing else!!!  

Pcd posted:

wenger2015 posted:

I wonder if anyone bought themselves any expensive cables for Xmas? 

 

Guilty as charged, purchased a pair of 4 pin Din to XLR Super Lumina to make up the full S/L loom and yes expensive cables do make a difference.

Congratulations, I know the SL full loom is something very special, ENJOY 

I, too, bought expensive cable for Christmas - the SL Din to XLR interconnect for my 272 to 250 DR, and a Siltech digital cable for my Core digital out to 272 digital in.

docmark posted:

I, too, bought expensive cable for Christmas - the SL Din to XLR interconnect for my 272 to 250 DR, and a Siltech digital cable for my Core digital out to 272 digital in.

Hi docmark 

i also have the Core 272/Xpsdr/250 DR with stock cables,can you give me your thoughts on the new cables you added?

Just installed Transparent Plus Gen5 speaker cables. They were still frozen after arriving via UPS. They sound fantastic anyhow. Cryogenic treated cables...only in Canada you say? I wonder what the summer heat will do.

Hi No Quarter,

in my opinion, the digital out to my 272 with the Siltech cable sounds astonishing.  It’s much better, in my opinion, than using UPnP thru Ethernet.  The first time I tried it, I was really surprised at the difference I heard.  Brighter (in a good way), more detail, music seemed more alive.  UPnP is acceptable, but I find myself always going back to the digital out option from my Core.

docmark posted:

Hi No Quarter,

in my opinion, the digital out to my 272 with the Siltech cable sounds astonishing.  It’s much better, in my opinion, than using UPnP thru Ethernet.  The first time I tried it, I was really surprised at the difference I heard.  Brighter (in a good way), more detail, music seemed more alive.  UPnP is acceptable, but I find myself always going back to the digital out option from my Core.

I use a Nordost Heimdall 2 digital cable between my Core and 272,when I am not using it with my XD 600s...which Siltech cable are you using?I agree that the digital out is superior than UPNP,what about the Superlumina cable,I assume it will take some time to break in though?

I'm using Supra ethernet cables between the NAS, network switch, and Naim ND5xs, then a Silnote Orion digital interconnect between the ND5xs and Devialet D400. This way I get the benefit of the Silnote cable and the Devi DAC.  I'm amazed by the music. It's surpassing my ears ability to discern the quality...sort of!

The Strat (Fender) posted:

Don Atkinson posted:

Those of us with Krell power amps have been using Transparent cables for decades. Their prices are frightening, but then the sound quality is equally astonishing.

Long before Naim figured out how to make decent cables, some of us were enjoying the benefits of this essential part of the hiring chain. Despite claims, at that time that cables (and speakers for that matter) were almost insignificant.

Good to see that Naim, Chord and their followers now have a decent range of choices.

Once again Naim never said cables were insignicant.  They said that they hadn’t found any that were better than their standard offering.  

Well, they hadn't really tried, had they !

Don Atkinson posted:

The Strat (Fender) posted:

Don Atkinson posted:

Those of us with Krell power amps have been using Transparent cables for decades. Their prices are frightening, but then the sound quality is equally astonishing.

Long before Naim figured out how to make decent cables, some of us were enjoying the benefits of this essential part of the hiring chain. Despite claims, at that time that cables (and speakers for that matter) were almost insignificant.

Good to see that Naim, Chord and their followers now have a decent range of choices.

Once again Naim never said cables were insignicant.  They said that they hadn’t found any that were better than their standard offering.  

Well, they hadn't really tried, had they !

I think that conclusion is spot on....