A short story which is also a quasi goodbye post

Good health to you Max, wherever your ears take you. 

.sjb

Nothing can rival a crossover-less loudspeaker!

You sure it's not the ovator 400s?

Max,

You are never boring, even when I fully agree with you.. Don't leave us. We need your Italian temperament and the insightful writing you posses. 

H

I can understand , I seem to enjoy listening to music more on my modestly upgraded car audio than sitting in front of the system at home hoping to be amazed. It may be that as I'm driving and concentrating on other things , I'm not listening fully but pieces that leap out at me in the car sound flat and dull at home. I know it can and does sound good at home but the environment can take  the fun and joy out of the experience. 

Sold my Ovators. Bored me to tears. Not Naim’s finest moment IMO

Max, maybe a lengthy holiday somewhere nice is in order?

Good luck to you whatever you decide.

At home, I wanted to play some more music. I was hungry with that same fun and quality enjoyment. But my Royal stereo – Naim's CDX2, SN, two extra PSUs, NAC A5 and Ovator S-400s – couldn't come close to that experience; it was just flat, aggressive, modestly detailed, a zero spatial plastic reproduction. And I knew (what most kind guys here seem to be completely unaware of) that no setup and no tweaking on this unlucky planet could have changed that sound into something listenable, enjoyable. My 16/44.1 CDs sounded like I had some problem in my ears. And the problem in my ears is that it is a stereo system inside a domestic room:

 

Max - the Chord Mojo addresses these problems, you really should try one.

analogmusic posted:

Max - the Chord Mojo addresses these problems, you really should try one.

AM,

How does the Chord Mojo overcome the spatially-flat and aggressive presentation of the S-400s?

How are the asus earbuds off the supernait? Purely out of curiosity, being tied to a heavy black box by a piece of wire is no way to enjoy music for long. 

Max-good luck.   However in my opinion the Ovatar 400s are an awful speaker.  Exactly as you describe. 

Regards,

Lindsay

Max,

I can appreciate on various grounds where you are coming from. I'd fall short of calling MP3 acceptable for dedicated listening. My old i-Pod shuffle served me well while running, but for anything beyond that it showed shortcomings.

As far as chasing upgrades, achieving optimal SQ results seem to become more difficult and niggling as the gear quality increases. I don't think this has as much to do with the gear itself as it does with the varying quality of recorded music available for replay. My own experience is that the more gear quality increases the more you expose the marginal recordings in your music holdings. My CDs all sound pretty damned good on the 23-year-old, $100 boombox in my shop, and play with good musicality. Play them on higher level gear and the shit recordings quickly reveal themselves.

One potential problem with higher level gear is that you end up reaching for only the best sounding stuff - you effectively limit your music choices to the high quality recordings. While a boombox won't espouse the virtues of great recordings, it also won't accentuate the shortcomings of music that is fun while having lesser recording/mastering quality.

In the end I'd say your treatise is a valid argument for incorporating Digital Room Correction into high-level digital gear. If not it's a battle of room versus speakers (or, if you choose, chasing acoustical room treatment). I don't think we're necessarily relegated to HPs or earbuds with phone in pocket to obtain best replay SQ. The soundstage width/depth and room ambiance of speakers can provide a different yet equally satisfying listening experience.

I prefer Apple headphones over any other headphone on this planet (including the HD800).
The car is a damn good environment for listening to music - great acoustics: ~50% reflecting ~50% damping.
Unfortunately, naim can sound aggressive sometimes, iPhone + headphones - never.

BP.

Max,

I certainly identify with some of your concerns. When I started on this hi-fi caper some 30 years ago, my simple goal was to find a way to experience recorded music more intimately and intensely. My reasoning was that, if I could hear the music in a more pure, less adulterated state, I would enjoy it more. Who could argue with that? But the reality turned out to be more complicated.

I’ve been fortunate in that I’ve made relatively few bad decisions, so my upgrade path has been fairly straight. But those reviews where you read about a delighted purchaser pulling record after record (or CD after CD) off their shelves because they’re so enthralled with the improvement the latest upgrade has brought them? That has happened to me very rarely. Most upgrades I’ve made have been initially underwhelming, although I recognise that the better ones have, over time, broadened my musical horizons, and made it easier and more enjoyable to “get” music that I’d previously found overly challenging.

While my current system rarely makes my hair stand on end, I’m occasionally surprised by how well it can convey complex music and, yes, I find myself more and more often pulling out records that I haven’t listened to in a couple of decades, so that’s good. But I spend most of my day in my home office listening to the local classical station on a 40 year old transistor radio, and it can certainly do an adequate job of drawing me into the music for hours on end. So I suppose my dissatisfaction can be summarised as: if a cheap radio can deliver the goods on a basic level, surely a seriously expensive “traditional” hi-fi should be so much better that it becomes addictive to listen to? Yet it isn’t. When I’m in the mood, it can be quite engaging, but I rarely find myself tempted to sneak upstairs to the living room, which I could easily do most days.

The upshot of all this is that I often get into a frame of mind similar to yours. Crassly stated, shouldn’t I be getting a better return for all the money I’ve sunk into my system down the years? Maybe, like many others on the forum, I should face up to this, and downgrade?

Well no, I’m not ready for that, at least not yet. I recently asked my local dealer to keep his eyes peeled for an elderly, well-loved 552. The reason the 552 piques my interest is partly because it’s a natural endpoint for my upgrade cycle (in short, space and money limitations), but also because it seems that almost everyone that owns one describes how the transition to a 552 makes their system compelling to listen to in a way that other preamps don’t. Some have even said “give me a Nait or a 552, but nothing in between.” I realise this is hyperbole, but I get the thinking behind it: you can have the bottom of the line product that happens to punch way above its weight, and does the essentials, but not a whole lot more; or you can have the top of the line model that cuts no corners, and makes no compromises. Everything in between becomes tainted with “yes, definitely better than the previous one, but …”

Anyway, if such a 552 ever shows up, I foresee one of two outcomes. Either it will lift my system to a level where the music is sufficiently enthralling that I no longer pay attention to the hi-fi stuff, or it will turn out to be just another step on an endless ladder of mild dissatisfaction. And, if it turns out to be the latter, then it may be time to start planning the downgrade, and deciding what my optimal, radically simplified system should look like.

Anyway, my apologies for the lengthy digression (it’s late here, and I’m done working). I hope your current state of mind turns out to be transitory, that you find a way to get your system working in a way that meets your expectations, and that you continue to participate in the forum. I know it’s been said many times before, but I’ve found that near-obsessive attention to installation – cable dressing, box placement, torque, speaker positioning, room optimisation (within limits) etc. etc. – makes that 5% difference between a system that’s merely competent and one that truly satisfies.

Best,

C

Joerand:
I don't think this has as much to do with the gear itself as it does with the varying quality of recorded music available for replay. My own experience is that the more gear quality increases the more you expose the marginal recordings in your music holdings. My CDs all sound pretty damned good on the 23-year-old, $100 boombox in my shop, and play with good musicality. Play them on higher level gear and the shit recordings quickly reveal themselves.

Completely agree on this one!
There are however positive as well as negative consequences of this.

While ignoring some cd's with music I like, only because of their really bad SQ in the recording, my musical horizon has been widened from listening to some cd's with really good SQ but which I probably wouldn't have listened to for the music on its own. And some of these cd's I now enjoy just as much, or even more, for their musical qualities than their SQ. 

For me, examples of this could be "La fille mal gardee" (Decca 1962), "Folk Singer" by Muddy Waters (MFSL 1993), "Acoustic Live" by Nils Löfgren (1997). Today I listen to these once in a while simply to enjoy the music. But they were originally bought mostly because they sounded really great. 

Claus

First.

I said it was my quasi goodbye post. A long night' sleep has removed the irrational part of the disappointment and left at least some will to try again.

SJB: Thanks, it's kind you you, but does your wish sound like if I have some health issue? (I'm joking; thanks).

Cat345: apart from the fact that I have heard one (1) good sounding, single driver, no-crossover speaker system sounding good in my whole life – the Voxativ Ampeggio* – and all the others have always sounded no different from what a patient DIY-er could build on a couple of rainy Sundays in a garage, maybe the problem is not the Ovators' crossover, but mine...

Mango: no, I am not. But the circumstances in which I came into their possession (not meaning that I broke in into someones' apartment, stole them and came down the gutter hold one under each arm) would make their substitution a financial Titanic. And I know that they can sound good, even very good, and what's more (and worst), all the women who come to our house find them beautiful..

Haim, my friend: as you see, I'm here. But I am not sure I like the concept of temperament applied to anything else than a musical instrument... My therapist (yes, I see one) says that there are steps and differences between character, temperament and personality: what you are born with, what is partly induced and molded by your parents and, in general, family life and the result of the two plus your personal life experience. So, which is Italian of the three in my case?

TIMPD: How I understand you; not only in the car I enjoy things that would make me (musically and sonically) vomit at home, but I sing along, shouting like a 23-years old Paul McCartney in Kansas City..

Daft Aped: see reply to MM. It doesn't mean that I keep the Ovators because selling them would make me lose too much money, but that is also a marginal side of the thing. As for the holiday, I could have a prescription for leaving my job any moment for a given length of time, but unfortunately the hours in the classroom with my students – one at a time, each with his/her own personality, each with a different program and way of learning – are amongst the few life-bringing things of my days.

Analog: I have no digital output - my CDX2 is absolutely first generation (and works well, I am touching wood, thanks). But I have appreciated what a Core and a Nova do. And after my last night's rant I should be ready for streamed music, shouldn't I? So, we'll see...

Yeti: I hadn't thought of it. I'll try. But it will feel a little like when King Kong is holding Fay Wray in its paws having dubious thoughts about her...

Strat: Thanks. I'll try to understand if I can consider the exactitude of my description as a success or a failure. I suppose in this case you meant awful, not awful.

Joe: and I can appreciate various parts of your considered reply, but I beg to differ on your first paragraph.

BP: What can I say? You're right, safe that I find the Asus free plugs better than my former Apple ones.

Now, if in the mean time someone has replied, I'll have to start again...

Best,

Max

Corry: Thanks, I think I understand the 'Nait or 552' perfectly well having owned a Nait many years ago and being occasionally exposed to a 552 at a friend's. I'll never reach 552 level because: 1) it would mean equal ancillaries, 2) I believe that the problem is inherent in audio between six walls, c) the idea of Digital Room Treatment is more accessible perhaps. But it's a little like I wrote a long rant saying that I had found a €3 wine much better than a €40 one, and you suggest me trying a €1500 bottle... Or simply imply its benefits. I know the 552, but I don't include it in the category of preamplifiers but rather among that of controlled substances.

Claus: there was an article on Stereophile years ago which shortly mentioned this and reduced it quite smartly to a short sentence: we tend, almost invariably, to choose and play the music and the CDs that sound best on our equipment. Another reason for making whopee....

Best

M.

P.S. Naim, in general, is a controlled substance. It's as simple as that.

I do like the analogy of the 552, or Naim Audio in general, being like a controlled substance. Sadly, we're all addicted.

Max_B posted:

First.

 

SJB: Thanks, it's kind you you, but does your wish sound like if I have some health issue? (I'm joking; thanks).

 

 

 

Best,

Max

It's an Irish trait perhaps, we wish good health but rarely wealth or prosperity. Health is a blessing the others can be blessing or curse. 

.sjb

Thanks, I've learned something new and positive. Actually, I am not in my best physical and psychological moments so I take your wishes with gratitude and pleasure. My best to you.

Max

Max_B posted:

Thanks, I've learned something new and positive. Actually, I am not in my best physical and psychological moments so I take your wishes with gratitude and pleasure. My best to you.

Max

My best wishes to you. I - unfortunately / fortunately - must work - but promise you to send you a more extensive reply which you deserve.

I genuinely wish the OP all the very best.    I also happen to think a simple speaker switch would solve his hi-fi problems.    But regarding the Naim philosophy stuff.   I know there’s tongue in cheek but wow I think some take it far too seriously.   A 552 is blah blah debatedly the greatest amp on the planet but it’s not something to be worshipped.  The 282 on the other hand.......

Max, don't leave this forum.

1. Sometimes or even quite often, going towards the stream is the right decision. To you, someone would say, but I would then say; to everybody, some people just don't know it.

2. I can enjoy music from my two Muso's just as much as from the main setup in the basement, my mind is just in another mode.

3. Therefor, go purchase a Muso for your livingroom and sell the rest. Make it simple.

Listening to Muso, Cowboy Junkies while writing.

Steinar 

What I think may be happening is you are actually listening to music on the headphones, and as is so often the case, when we sit in front of our systems we are listening to audio equipment.
 
I recall the first "good" stereo I ever heard; it was a Technics TT through a Pioneer SX-626 receiver and the speakers I do not remember (Fisher?) that my best friend's older brother had gotten; this in about 1973 or so. But I was enthralled and that started this whole thing in my life. I now own a system that is literally on an order of magnitude of many 10s of times better than I could ever have imagined at that time. And then I read about how some DAC or cable or new box just makes everything SO much better, and I have to wonder how this madness plays out. I think I can be happy where I am, chronic/intermittent streaming difficulties notwithstanding.

Your posts are always insightful and often entertaining.

Max_B - glad I read your story! First time I have chuckled since Tuesday, after losing a friend to the big C! Hope you keep writing!

https://youtu.be/ci_2ETb3Gj4