A short story which is also a quasi goodbye post

Well I'm an honest type and I for one will hold my hands up and say I do have 'pride' in ownership of my Naim system and it is a pride I feel all to myself.  I do not know what else you would call it really I have worked very hard to achieve what I have and that includes my possessions and I feel proud of what I have achieved.  Why would I only feel grateful I would probably feel grateful if the things I have achieved were solely down to luck but they are not they are the fruits of very hard work not luck.

Do I feel bad that not everyone who works as hard as me can afford a Naim stereo?  Yes I do it is wrong but that does not mean it is wrong to feel proud.  Maybe I am wrong I know I cannot speak for others and maybe it is only myself who feels proud terrible, shallow person that I am.

Pride does sound rather negative, and of course it’s one of the seven deadly sins. I do like having nice things, like a good hand built sofa, or a Miele fridge freezer. They are good solid things that are well made and built to last. Naim is not well known and hardly anyone who visits us knows what it is and therefore they don’t pass comment, other than to say ‘this sounds nice’ if they get to listen to music. I bought a decent watch last year and was saying to the woman in the shop that I didn’t want anything ostentatious. She told me that there was no need to worry as nobody ever notices them, and having worn it every day for nearly a year nobody has ever made a comment. I bought it because it’s really nice. 

Hungryhalibut posted:

Pride does sound rather negative, and of course it’s one of the seven deadly sins. I do like having nice things, like a good hand built sofa, or a Miele fridge freezer. They are good solid things that are well made and built to last. Naim is not well known and hardly anyone who visits us knows what it is and therefore they don’t pass comment, other than to say ‘this sounds nice’ if they get to listen to music. I bought a decent watch last year and was saying to the woman in the shop that I didn’t want anything ostentatious. She told me that there was no need to worry as nobody ever notices them, and having worn it every day for nearly a year nobody has ever made a comment. I bought it because it’s really nice. 

Yes but do you feel proud to own such nice things? Pride born of hard graft and sacrifice is totally different to say pride born from things that were given or were inherited. If I worked very hard from humble beginngs and felt pride at the house I lived in because of my hard work that is fine IMO. If I inherited a lot of money or won the lottery or some other good fortune and were prideful about the watch I wore or the stereo I owned because of that good fortune then that just makes me a Tory! 

Bob the Builder posted:

Hungryhalibut posted:

Pride does sound rather negative, and of course it’s one of the seven deadly sins. I do like having nice things, like a good hand built sofa, or a Miele fridge freezer. They are good solid things that are well made and built to last. Naim is not well known and hardly anyone who visits us knows what it is and therefore they don’t pass comment, other than to say ‘this sounds nice’ if they get to listen to music. I bought a decent watch last year and was saying to the woman in the shop that I didn’t want anything ostentatious. She told me that there was no need to worry as nobody ever notices them, and having worn it every day for nearly a year nobody has ever made a comment. I bought it because it’s really nice. 

Yes but do you feel proud to own such nice things? Pride born of hard graft and sacrifice is totally different to say pride born from things that were given or were inherited. If I worked very hard from humble beginngs and felt pride at the house I lived in because of my hard work that is fine IMO. If I inherited a lot of money or won the lottery or some other good fortune and were prideful about the watch I wore or the stereo I owned because of that good fortune then that just makes me a Tory! 

"makes me a Tory!" and there is the agenda..

Hungryhalibut posted:

Pride does sound rather negative, and of course it’s one of the seven deadly sins. I do like having nice things, like a good hand built sofa, or a Miele fridge freezer. They are good solid things that are well made and built to last. Naim is not well known and hardly anyone who visits us knows what it is and therefore they don’t pass comment, other than to say ‘this sounds nice’ if they get to listen to music. I bought a decent watch last year and was saying to the woman in the shop that I didn’t want anything ostentatious. She told me that there was no need to worry as nobody ever notices them, and having worn it every day for nearly a year nobody has ever made a comment. I bought it because it’s really nice. 

Therein lies the difference. My brother-in-law, who could be the person upon whom Harry Enfield based his Tory Boy, was bought a Rolex by his wife last year. We met them for lunch soon after, not knowing of his acquisition. After much ostentatious cuff shuffling and checking the time (which just made me think he'd forgotten to set up to record something at home!), he was eventually forced to ask us what we thought of his watch! The poor bugger was bursting with 'pride', which I found rather sad. 

Maybe it's semantics, but whilst I often feel happy, satisfied, pleased, excited, anticipatory etc...with 'things', I can honestly say pride doesn't enter the equation. Like, I suspect, the majority of us ,I also have worked hard for everything I own. The gratefulness I feel is for the good fortune which has put me in the position of being able to acquire a satisfying, relatively well paid job that has given me all the trappings I enjoy - parents, home, education etc. Not everyone is lucky enough to have a solid life platform upon which to build. Hence grateful.

Timmo1341 posted:

Hungryhalibut posted:

Pride does sound rather negative, and of course it’s one of the seven deadly sins. I do like having nice things, like a good hand built sofa, or a Miele fridge freezer. They are good solid things that are well made and built to last. Naim is not well known and hardly anyone who visits us knows what it is and therefore they don’t pass comment, other than to say ‘this sounds nice’ if they get to listen to music. I bought a decent watch last year and was saying to the woman in the shop that I didn’t want anything ostentatious. She told me that there was no need to worry as nobody ever notices them, and having worn it every day for nearly a year nobody has ever made a comment. I bought it because it’s really nice. 

Therein lies the difference. My brother-in-law, who could be the person upon whom Harry Enfield based his Tory Boy, was bought a Rolex by his wife last year. We met them for lunch soon after, not knowing of his acquisition. After much ostentatious cuff shuffling and checking the time (which just made me think he'd forgotten to set up to record something at home!), he was eventually forced to ask us what we thought of his watch! The poor bugger was bursting with 'pride', which I found rather sad. 

Maybe it's semantics, but whilst I often feel happy, satisfied, pleased, excited, anticipatory etc...with 'things', I can honestly say pride doesn't enter the equation. Like, I suspect, the majority of us ,I also have worked hard for everything I own. The gratefulness I feel is for the good fortune which has put me in the position of being able to acquire a satisfying, relatively well paid job that has given me all the trappings I enjoy - parents, home, education etc. Not everyone is lucky enough to have a solid life platform upon which to build. Hence grateful.

Spot on Timmo they are not all so lucky some of us were raised by violent drinkers whose idea of education was a back hander and so left school at 16 to 'work' for a living and pay their way.  This isn't the best foundation and leads to quite a few wasted years and so when you manage to finally pull yourself together to have a reasonable life you do feel a sense of pride at owning things like Naim stereo's you never believed possible but also have the self awareness to own such feelings for what they are because guilt does not come into it.

I sometimes forget when I make statements what forum I'm on.

Interesting turn here on this thread: Timmo's story is at once amusing and in a sense pathetic (not Timmo, but his B-I-L). I have engaged a bit in similar behavior (rarely) in my life, and always afterward I look back and think what a lame display of insecurity it represents. And ironically, I can be impressed by a watch, but a Rolex is never one to do it for me...I don't care about the price, I want it to look good, and of course, function well.

If there is a "pride of ownership" regarding Naim, for me it doesn't have anything to do with the cost of owning a truly fine audio system. The "pride" (which as Nigel correctly points out, carries a negative connotation) for me is in knowing I have purchased a really excellent, quality product that does really well what I want it to do. My friends do not know Naim (especially being in the USA) and I actually avoid talking about the cost in many cases, unless I am really close to the person.

Indeed, I wish it did NOT cost so dearly to have such. I am an inveterate cheapskate in many areas - when you grow up with 5 kids (including a "special needs" kid, which is probably equal to 2+ regular kids) in a limited income situation you learn such. So none of my "pride" is based on that. Agreeing again with Nigel it comes down to having nice things; albeit for me, limited to the things that are important to me. The only "nice" furniture I have is that which I inherited from my mother when she passed; the rest is just functional, and I figure if I ever marry again that will likely all get changed anyway so why spend a lot? But in audio gear, guitars, and ice hockey equipment I go for the "best"...largely because doing so means I no longer have to worry and wonder about it performing as it should.

The one thing that sounds artificial are such ear phones. Blikkerig like they call it in Holland. 

Of course, the discussion of 'pride' in an object is down to semantics, and we may not all take it to mean exactly the same thing - and BtB's statement regarding himself suggests not pride of ownership of Naim gear per se, but seeing it as a symbol that embodies pride in having made something of his life despite a distinctly unpriviledges start - which Indeed I think is oneplace where pride is well placed (assuming that other more important things are satisfactory first)..

As for lottery wins making one a Tory, I do the lottery occasionally, because that is the only way I could ever afford some of the out-and-out extravagent things that it is nice, occasionally, to dream of before returning to one's reality... as for politics, that is not a subject I readily get into discussing in casual conversation because inevitably someone makes it get unpleasant, but I do like the epithet Edgar Broughton applies to himself: 'I lean to the left, trying to do what's right'.

Hifi heaven is two turntables.  a high quality rotary phono mixer stage. a high quality head amp and high quality phones.    Short of a mega super club sound system - will this be beaten.

And of course a fxxxton load of records and the time to run through them all.  

TOBYJUG posted:

Hifi heaven is two turntables.  a high quality rotary phono mixer stage. a high quality head amp and high quality phones.    Short of a mega super club sound system - will this be beaten.

And of course a fxxxton load of records and the time to run through them all.  

Some old beaten-up Altec A7's and BGW 750 amps could also do the trick with ''smoke on the water'' 

Life’s too short to worry about audio. Either enjoy music on the kit you have, or if you can afford it, buy the kit you want. Don’t let other people’s opinions - and in particular those expressed (mostly anonymously) here or on other forums - get you down.

Also, absense really does make the heart grow fonder. Have not been able to enjoy music for several days due a bad head cold with blocked up ears. Am just now able to hear clearly again, and can’t wait to spin some records this evening while Mrs. Hook is at a neighborhood ladies gathering. Am sure it will sound wonderful!

TOBYJUG posted:

Hifi heaven is two turntables.  a high quality rotary phono mixer stage. a high quality head amp and high quality phones.    Short of a mega super club sound system - will this be beaten.

And of course a fxxxton load of records and the time to run through them all.  

I presume you mean that club in London that uses a pair of Tannoy Westminster Royals... 

I am bemused whenever I read on here of hifi equipment being referred to as a 'hobby'. Surely, it's all about the music. The only reason we buy this stuff is to enjoy the music. The only reason we upgrade stuff is to get that bit closer to the music. If it doesn't sound more like real instruments played by real people, then we shouldn't bother. It's the music that matters, regardless of what equipment is used for replay.

I wouldn't say I have a sense of pride about my system though it pleases me and I certainly enjoy discussing the merits etc with other enthusiasts. Of course, the vast majority of 'normal' people aren't really interested in hi-fi and even those who are won't necessarily know Naim.  I must confess to being a bit sheepish if discussions with other people turn to music and I'm asked about what I use to play it. I'm very much aware that to most people having eight black boxes just to play a CD must seem ridiculous. And I certainly avoid questions about cost because the answer is even more ridiculous!  

I'm with Hook, I appreciate my system most when I've had an absence from it. When I get home, kick back and turn it on I'm often stunned by how good it sounds. I absolutely agree that what is available now for modest sums can be every bit as engaging and interesting, but I do love the impact of a loudspeaker system. Music is part physical with me, not just mental and with cans I can't share it with others.

Max, take a break from the high end, but please not from the forum. Yours is one of the most interesting voices on here. You have a unique mind and unique use of language that I admire.

Clive B posted:

I am bemused whenever I read on here of hifi equipment being referred to as a 'hobby'. Surely, it's all about the music. The only reason we buy this stuff is to enjoy the music. The only reason we upgrade stuff is to get that bit closer to the music. If it doesn't sound more like real instruments played by real people, then we shouldn't bother. It's the music that matters, regardless of what equipment is used for replay.

Clive,

You are completely wrong, otherwise all the wise guys (ryhms?) here who are so busy splitting audiophile hairs would bother to post on the Music Room to share and learn something about the music.  Max is one of the very few here who gives us from time to time a reality check.

Haim

And to add to Haim's comment, when I worked in the audio store (a Naim dealer), there were definitely those who were only hi-fi enthusiasts; I swear they never played more than a minute of a song (or so it seemed). "Listen to that cymbal there..." And undoubtedly there are more than a few on the forum that to one degree or another are in that group. It doesn't make it wrong, it is simply a different way of approaching hi-fi, although not one I really comprehend.

As someone posted here a while back the quote attributed to Alan Parsons: "Audiophiles don't use their equipment to listen to your music. Audiophiles use your music to listen to their equipment."

And to swing full oval back to Max's original post, Parsons himself feels that room interactions are more important than equipment. And as the owner of the said store where I worked told me, his general formula in audio gear was that a doubling of price gets you about a ten percent improvement, everything else being equal...just an off the cuff formula, but his point is that it is a law of diminishing returns.

I think the OP should do 3 things.  

First, look after himself.  

Second, in the short term forget about the hi-fi just mothball it     

Third, in the longer term try some different speakers.

But most hang around Max. The Forum needs a diversity of contributions.

Regards,

LindsayI

Pride and Naim...hmm, I don't think so.  To any normal gadget wielding individual born in the last 30 years, the classic Naim boxes look like garbage.  What those ugly boxes do is something rarely experienced, or appreciated, by most people.  I'm not poor enough to buy Miele products, but I know where to put my money to get the best end result pound for pound, and when it comes to music that has become Naim.  I too believe that the supplied i-phone ear-buds are pretty good as such things go, but they don't do what my Naim system does.  And not even close.

Hungryhalibut posted:

Pride does sound rather negative, and of course it’s one of the seven deadly sins. I do like having nice things, like a good hand built sofa, or a Miele fridge freezer. They are good solid things that are well made and built to last. Naim is not well known and hardly anyone who visits us knows what it is and therefore they don’t pass comment, other than to say ‘this sounds nice’ if they get to listen to music. I bought a decent watch last year and was saying to the woman in the shop that I didn’t want anything ostentatious. She told me that there was no need to worry as nobody ever notices them, and having worn it every day for nearly a year nobody has ever made a comment. I bought it because it’s really nice. 

I did notice your watch in Milano! Haven't I told you?

M

No, you didn’t mention it, you are far too discreet for that. But whilst you noticed it, did you know what it was?

SongStream posted:

  I'm not poor enough to buy Miele products, 

Ooh, get you, Mr. Swanky!

Hungryhalibut posted:

SongStream posted:

  I'm not poor enough to buy Miele products, 

Ooh, get you, Mr. Swanky!

At least I didn't reply with quote......Whoops. 

Having added the Audioquest Dragonfly Black DAC to my phone I found myself hearing things through my Bose in-ear buds that surprised and delighted me, so I can identify with much of what Max has said - and consequently I enjoy my music on the move far more than I ever did. I do find I cannot comfortably wear these for hours and of course I cannot share the listening experience with others. Having recently added the XPSDR to my 272 and 200DR I am at last hearing something where the SQ is delivering all I would like to hear and I am hearing so much more - at the end of the day it is not the logo on the front but what it delivers to the ears and how it makes you feel. The positive thing I took from your post Max was how much you are enjoying your music - and you can always go back to your box system if the muse takes you. Keep enjoying the music and life.

Peter