Core Impressions?

Not sure on your system, but, I have had the Core since launch. I really did not want to faff with computers. It rips and stores, just fine, it’s playback is superb.

Some have issues with metadata , rip quality etc, but I just play, music. It’s great, no need to logonto a computer.

you can search on here for my views a month or so back. Nothing has changed since then -- there still is no firmware that enables rip integrity checking. Metadata editing sucks. Backup/restore functions are pretty much broken. 

But if you own the cd,s already, what are you going to do, if you you get a score for the rip that is so called unacceptable? You can have a cd from yore, that sounds poor that rips Ok, or a newer version, that has imperfections. Personally I will listen and judge myself.

So Jon is it worse than the 8 year old HDX with regard to day to day usability - hard to believe but if so this is a major f**k up from Naim

Jon is on a mission to get Naim to sort out the points he mentions. And who can blame him? There are certainly quite a few issues with the Core and apparently the Star which uses much of the same code has a number of improvements that haven't yet been ported to the Core, but Naim says they will be soon via a Core firmware upgrade that was last promised for end October, if I recall correctly.

But sound quality wise the Core is fine and the metadata issues won't bother you if you don't listen to classical music and if you don't have so many albums that you need to use the search of metadata to home in on the music you want to listen to.

I think ripping is an open question right now in that there are known problems that haven't been resolved and the ripping monitor doesn't work, but having said that, mostly I'm happy with the rips. I think the automatic metadata lookup is really quite flaky though.

Imports from HDX/US are mostly fine but the Core, while now supposedly respecting user edits on imports, often insists on changing the artwork, which is extremely irritating on classical music, which is routinely bundled into different boxed collections in line with composer or conductor anniversaries or whatever but presumably there is no such problem on the music Naim developers listen to! Anyway one could regard this as an opportunity to trawl through your collection while changing all the artwork back to sensible covers (e.g. Beethoven Moonlight Sonata rather than The Greats -volume 23) and remind yourself what you haven't listened to in a while!

It can be a struggle to get your internal disc formatted (another issue Naim have known about for months but haven't released a fix for yet) and backup is an unknown quantity. Have I got a good backup? I don't know frankly. I have a USB HD that has something on it, but what that is, is uncertain.

You can't transcode from FLAC to WAV on the fly like you could with HDX and US, but that may not bother you. And for a box where the main selling point is that you don't need a PC to manage your music, to not allow editing of metadata of files in the downloads folder via the Naim app is bizarre as well as inconvenient.

I think at the moment the Core is a flawed product that should not have been released when it was or even released now come to that, and for whatever reason Naim have put corrective action, much of which they know how to do, on the back burner.

I bought one of the first Cores, but If I had my time again, I would wait until Naim got it working properly first before I gave them my money, especially if I had a working HDX or US (especially as I do still have a working US).

So if you haven't committed yet Andrew, I would suggest you leave it another 6 months or so and see what Naim does to sort out the Core's well known issues.

best

David

That’s a pretty comprehensive, level headed answer to your question with no particular axe to grind, good response David. Hope Naim take note?

Hmm ... Thanks David for your detailed reply. I think I am pretty much committed to the purchase as i believe that my music had been transferred by my dealer from HDX to Core. It's not due to be installed for a few weeks due to diaries but i will most certainly discuss how well the transition has gone. I only have a handful of classical albums and I don't often edit meta data or wish to convert file formats so i'm hoping that i wont have too many problems. I have a second HDX with identical library which i can use in the main system if the new Core is seriously all over the shop (in which case i'll obviously be seriously moaning at all concerned!)

But it sounds like COME ON NAIM RELEASE SOME NEW FIRMWARE! ... At least before the 19th Dec when mine is due to be installed.

The next firmware is supposed to be early December, but not all of the faults will be fixed. The ripping monitor, should be fixed. However, if you already own the cd, and it’s poor, put up or, buy another? And if you were happy before you knew?

A picture paints a thousand words. I think you can see the issue here, where the rip went into digital repeat noise from misreading the disc.

This is my core with current firmware and software ripping a testdisc I keep which has a lot of surface damage. Core/naimapp said it was a perfect rip, because the core firmware doesnt actually report status correctly. It does on the other Uniti box apparently, but not on Core.

Now if I believed the UI, I would think I had a perfect rip, right up to the point where I played it. Which could be a month or so later.

Is this acceptable on a two grand state-of-the-art ripping solution? No, clearly not. Maybe it will be fixed in time for my Core's first birthday.

Jon, when this firmware update arrives I have no concept on how many errors would constitute a bad disc versus an acceptable one. Can you give any general pointers, or is it a case of it being Naim software specific and you would need to run a few test discs.

I used own a HDX and a Uniti Core ... it is what it is: it can rip (just like the HDX did) and store, but metatdata editing is not what it is supposed to be for a product at that pricepoint (but hey: I might be pickey when it comes to metadate editing!)

Furthermore I regret that the Core is not able to convert FLAC files 'on the fly' what the HDX did ...

All in all a sound reason for me to sell my Uniti Core and use a proper NAS instead ...

It's supposed to be a bit perfect rip and if the error correction doesn't correct any reading errors due to disk damage or whatever, then it's not bit perfect.

I had one new disc, that Naim has had for 8 months or so and they confirmed to me that the problem was repeatable, which produced an audible crackle on one track when ripped on the Core, but was fine when ripped in my Unitiserve and fine when played on my CDX2 (and in my BMW's CD player). I bought another copy of the same CD and that was ok.

best

David

Gazza posted:

Jon, when this firmware update arrives I have no concept on how many errors would constitute a bad disc versus an acceptable one. Can you give any general pointers, or is it a case of it being Naim software specific and you would need to run a few test discs.

Error correction, courtesy of the brilliant Reed Solomon encoding system, allows for fully digitally recoverable errors. These leave you with a perfect bitstream. When this fails, because the error burst is too big, it goes into analogue coverup mode on a CD player. On a rip, it usually just creates a spitting noise. 

All of this is flagged and knowable. I would argue that any irrecoverable errors should flag as an error. A comprehensive error report at time of rip would tell you how many times this happened on each track, so you could make a judgement call as to whether to keep the track or not. I have no idea what the current software does, because I have a mere Core (where this doesnt work) rather than a Uniti (where it does apparently, but I have no idea what is reported or how)

Given there is no historical log in Core either, you will have to decide all of this at point of rip. You should be able to do a bunch of ripping in the background (whilst having a life -- eating dinner, watching TV etc) and then go through a status log after the event to see what happened. I dont think this is, or will be possible either. 

I also have an HDX SSD. It has an error indicator when ripping, but this error indication is cleared immediately the disc is ejected after the rip completes. (Yes, really... durr!)

You can search the log file (yes, unlike Core it has one) for the word "error" and backtrack from that to find which disc/track was at fault. It is a grotesque mess, but its better than nothing which is where Core is today.

OK thanks Jon, have to wait to see what we get delivered by Naim.

jon honeyball posted:

Gazza posted:

Jon, when this firmware update arrives I have no concept on how many errors would constitute a bad disc versus an acceptable one. Can you give any general pointers, or is it a case of it being Naim software specific and you would need to run a few test discs.

 

Given there is no historical log in Core either, you will have to decide all of this at point of rip. You should be able to do a bunch of ripping in the background (whilst having a life -- eating dinner, watching TV etc) and then go through a status log after the event to see what happened. I dont think this is, or will be possible either. 

Naim stores it's own metadata for each rip so I see no reason why this isn't possible. I have told Naim that if they don't fix the ripping then I'll return the system for a refund as it's not fit for purpose.

David Hendon posted:

It's supposed to be a bit perfect rip and if the error correction doesn't correct any reading errors due to disk damage or whatever, then it's not bit perfect.

I had one new disc, that Naim has had for 8 months or so and they confirmed to me that the problem was repeatable, which produced an audible crackle on one track when ripped on the Core, but was fine when ripped in my Unitiserve and fine when played on my CDX2 (and in my BMW's CD player). I bought another copy of the same CD and that was ok.

best

David

I assume error correction is done in the drive, and that if it fails to correct a sumcheck error (i.e. the error correcting code still fails to generate the right sumcheck)  it indicates this. Clearly errors should be counted and reported.

David’s comments about different devices giving different results with the same CD make me suspect a flawed design somewhere.

An alternative is what I thought dbPoweramp does which is to construct a hash from the data on the entire disk (or track) and record it on a database. With enough rips by different users it is possible to decide what the correct value is and report discrepancies. 

Very alarming to hear the Core misleads users. It is a shame the media companies don’t provide a full recovery system for damaged tracks. It’s also a shame that they don’t take more ownership of metadata, even if the problem is in the Redbook not supporting it.

Phil

naim will be glad when this year is over after reading this..    really cant see the point of an expensive ripper ,surely the majority who stream will have their total cd collection already. i would hate to rip mine again ,it was a total ball ache

Ripping my collection was pretty straightforward using the unitiserve. I guess the point of an expensive ripper is it should save time and effort

Well there are some of us out there who are very happy with the Core. I run mine with a Samsung SSD - silent and cool running. Perhaps some of us are easy to please

Me too, it rips and plays music just fine. If Naim keep improving the firmware, hopefully most if not all will be pleased.

I love my Core and Atom - just it really hasn't been tested properly. If it's 'core' function is to rip then at least do this properly. I now have that nagging doubt that a good few of the 1000-odd CDs it's ripped haven't been successful and it's not told me. I've found a couple so far but then I've mostly been listening to internet radio!

I couldn’t agree more!

Ravenswood10 posted:

Well there are some of us out there who are very happy with the Core. I run mine with a Samsung SSD - silent and cool running. Perhaps some of us are easy to please

Perhaps you are. 

Jon,  Yes, I think some of us are easier to please, but You/We should be a valued customer, and we will all hopefully benefit from your putting Naim under pressure on the Core items that you need. Just because I am not demanding your requirements now, for the future, i am setting up my Hifi again after too many years. But for those starting out again the Core has many benefits, it sounds great, easy to use......I do not like computers.

Sent from my iPad.....