Core Impressions?

I’m still hesitant to swap my CDX2 for a core, maybe I should give it more time? Is it worth considering a pre loved unitiserve? There seems to be few around now. I’m not keen on the nas and dBpoweramp setup.

Get a Core home demo, and rip a few discs, what’s the harm?

The US appears to be a dead end now, so you're better off looking at the Core.  The Core is good - with the last fw update I've been really getting down to ripping (and editing where necessary) and, of course, playing music.  I'm starting to really love it. In the main system it plays straight into the DAC via s/pdif and is sounding really great. Most of the major niggles at launch are gone and those that remain I know Naim are working on improving and so it's probably a good long term bet. I think that error count feature is due imminently, which is good. 

Thanks Richard. I’ll look into demoing a core next year. I’m sure my dealer will do me a good deal with my part ex. 

The Spdif is really good into my Nova. Tried with DC1 last week compared to my Upnp with Audioquest cinammon, much better. I am not a classical cd owner , so now that I can add album covers I am happy.

However Jon has his expectations on buying a reference product for music storage, and he should have reasonable expectations met. Perhaps starting out again in Hifi, I am too easy too please. So Jon may be ruffling a few feathers, but Naim know the dealers are not too impressed. I still have issues registered with a Naim, some of which I never got a reply. Some are still outstanding with the Core after almost 6 months.

Trevor hope you are reading this.......

jon honeyball posted:

Ravenswood10 posted:

Well there are some of us out there who are very happy with the Core. I run mine with a Samsung SSD - silent and cool running. Perhaps some of us are easy to please

Perhaps you are. 

There’s a lot to being contented you know.

I’m not engaging in meaningless platitudes. 

Richard, Gazza

I have a Nova and also have a Core on order for early next year. I don’t have ethernet in the hifi room and was wondering if I should connect the  two together using an Apple Airport Express which I already have, perhaps using a switch or would S/pdif be a better and simpler option? What are your recommendations for an S/pdif cable - presumably Naim is the safe option.

So far I’m very pleased with the Nova and streaming Tidal CD quality over Wi-fi  is great for trying out new music but I look forward to ripping all my CDs for better quality sound next year

Thanks

Bob

Bob, While I use my Core as a player in the main system, connected to the DAC via s/pdif, I use an Airport Express to link the Core to my Airport Extreme upstairs so it can have internet access. It also allows me to us it as a server for other streamers around the house.  It works well and avoids the problems I used to have because of the internet going down every 5- 10 minutes (which persists when the conditions are right/wrong). It's very stable and works well.  

If you are using a Nova then I would probably stick with using a Core as a server and Nova as streamer. 

I am using a Belden 1694a, I did demo a Naim DC1 a week or so ago. It is much better, having better dynamics and clarity. But at £315 compared to the Belden which can be bought for £30, it’s not ten times better. I decided to prioritise and invest in a second hand Fraim from my dealer.

Nina started a thread a week or so asking about the Blackcat digital cable which is £245 if I remember correctly. She seemed very happy with her purchase. Ask your dealer if you can borrow a cable or two, mine was quite happy to let me demo the DC1 for a week or so. I mainly use over ethernet, but Spdif is still better in my opinion.

I would agree with Richard, although the Core SPDIF output is very good, so it is not a sound quality decision so much as a question of functionality. Given that both Core and Nova need internet access, connecting both of them, and an Airport Express, to a switch would make sense (even if you choose SPDIF for playback.)

Richard, Gaza and Chris

what a great Forum this is and thanks to all of you for your quick and helpful comments. I think I’ll look for a secondhand DC1 but also use the pair Airport Express I have so I can stream from the Core to a very recently bought Muso QB ( John Lewis Black Friday impulse purchase)

Bob

Ask your dealer if you can borrow a DC1 if you want to try it out. If it sounds better than UPnP on your network, great, but as you have another Naim streamer, I’m guessing you’re likely to want it on your network. Also, bear in mind that the Muso may struggle over WiFi, as I think you’ll find the old streaming platform is less robust than the new one (Nova) over wireless. 

I’m using the Muso on Wi-fi with Naim and Paradise radio plus Tidal streaming and so far no dropouts. I have a UBiquiti router connected to my Plusnet Modem/router and this seems to give a stable Wi-fi distribution throughout the house

Another possibility could be to place the Vore near to my router and connect by Ethernet to the switch I use to connect modem, router and NAS. I would then have a stable connection between core and router and would rely on Wi-fi from router to Nova and Muso (and perhaps still use the Airport Express with the Nova for better streaming). Plenty of options it seems!

Bob

To the OP. I can't comment on moving from an HDX but I purchased the Core (+SSD) in February '17  to have a single-box solution for storage, streaming server and simplified software updates with playback control via the App.  The biggest on-going issue for me is the App to control playback.

A handful of CDs were ripped with audible errors.

Downloading tracks from my Mac to the Core and backing up to my Mac work fine and have done since purchase.

Sound quality / musical enjoyment via SPDIF is very good.

The product fails as a control playback due to the App which is at best described as flakey. There are rarely substantive improvements to the App, maybe Naim are no longer investing other than providing interface tweaks for new iOS/Android devices. It's fundamental playback issues such as not being able to play a playlist or requiring App to be shutdown/restarted to show the correct information on the transport panel; Sometimes the Core doesn't respond to the App for 5-15 (...30!) seconds after selecting another track or playlist to play.

jon honeyball posted:

I’m not engaging in meaningless platitudes. 

Hi Jon,

Been following your threads for many months now. Applaud your commitment to getting it sorted, just wondering at what point your long time Naim usage ends for digital storage/reply and you move on. If your enjoyment is being impaired, there are other solutions which work pretty well.

Kind Regards

RR

Shropshire Hills posted:

I’m using the Muso on Wi-fi with Naim and Paradise radio plus Tidal streaming and so far no dropouts. I have a UBiquiti router connected to my Plusnet Modem/router and this seems to give a stable Wi-fi distribution throughout the house

Another possibility could be to place the Vore near to my router and connect by Ethernet to the switch I use to connect modem, router and NAS. I would then have a stable connection between core and router and would rely on Wi-fi from router to Nova and Muso (and perhaps still use the Airport Express with the Nova for better streaming). Plenty of options it seems!

Good to hear that your Muso is working well over WiFi; I suspect your Ubiquiti router is more capable than most consumer grade stuff. The acid test is to try it with 24/192 or DSD material, if you have any. 

Connecting the Core to your router and using WiFi to the Nova will probably work - I found running an Atom over WiFi from an Airport Extreme to work quite well, where my Superuniti in an identical configuration was utterly useless. 

Red Rooster posted:

jon honeyball posted:

I’m not engaging in meaningless platitudes. 

Hi Jon,

Been following your threads for many months now. Applaud your commitment to getting it sorted, just wondering at what point your long time Naim usage ends for digital storage/reply and you move on. If your enjoyment is being impaired, there are other solutions which work pretty well.

 

Kind Regards

RR

The short version: to be honest, I dont know.

The longer version: I was going to rip everything (I have many thousands of CDs) using the disc auto-robotic loader that I bought a few years ago. But the firmware on that is no longer supported by my preferred ripping software. So that wasnt a good starting point.

So I bought an HDX SSD about 2 years ago and started ripping, only to find it was wholly untrustworthy on its ripping status. And lack of support from naim (lack of any updates to HDX for many years, including lack of updating to XP Embedded SP3 to get the wannacry patch this year -- another reason to not continue with HDX)

Then core came along -- brand new platform from naim, one which would have support. What shipped was a mere shell of what was promised. In the three key areas of rip quality, metadata editing, data handling/backup/restore, metadata editing got a bare-bones fix in May and nothing since. Its still crap for any serious library handling. Rip quality is still broken, because the firmware, promised as due "imminently" in september, still hasnt come. And i have no idea whether the forthcoming firmware/software improves on data handling/backup/restore. I walked from the beta program in May, cos i wasnt prepared to invest more time in it.

Naim are not unaware of my views, however -- Phil Harris was kind enough to indulge me for a long private chat on Friday at Basically Sound event in Norwich. I have reached out to naim pr asking for info, so I can plan editorial deadlines. 

I like the idea of a single vendor solution which is properly sorted. But this isnt. And the new platform of Uniti still wont stream to my Muso or QB, or so I understand (I dont have any new uniti amps to check this with, but i believe it is still not working after 5 months of uniti shipment). 

For my core, I had hoped things would be better by may, but we only got skeletal metadata editing. I revised my deadline to 1st Sept, and that went whooshing past. First week of January is both the 1st anniversary of my buying core, and also Consumer Electronics Show. Seems a good time to bow out then. Who knows, it might be time for a complete rethink.

jon honeyball posted:

I’m not engaging in meaningless platitudes. 

You're right - but do try to lighten up.

Ravenswood10 posted:

jon honeyball posted:

I’m not engaging in meaningless platitudes. 

You're right - but do try to lighten up.

Thanks, but no.

You choice but when my 13 year old daughter developed what is a life-long serious illness requiring heavy duty therapy a year ago we all found lightening up a useful thing to do. I don’t really mind if people are rude to me. Seriously a little black box no matter how awful really doesn’t matter in the grand scheme of things. That’s what I mean when I said I’m easy to please - I didn’t used to be.

Anyhow time to move on.

Gazza posted:

I am using a Belden 1694a, I did demo a Naim DC1 a week or so ago. It is much better, having better dynamics and clarity. But at £315 compared to the Belden which can be bought for £30, it’s not ten times better. I decided to prioritise and invest in a second hand Fraim from my dealer.

 

Gazza - I wonder if there's another way of looking at that VFM question.  Ok, the DC1 might be ten times the cost of the Belden but your system is worth several thousands. Is spending another £285 worth it to get "better dynamics and clarity" out of your multi-thousand Pound system?  Relative to the system cost, the £285 seems rather modest in my view.   

Oh I agree entirely, I am just restarting a hifi system and I had “bodged” it in with the plasma TV, dvd and Blu-ray player. In doing back to back testing, some cables fell out. This coincided with my dealer having a Fraim system second hand for sale. I decided this was the best VFM to sort out the cabling mess and hopefully improve the sound. I will look at digital cables again, and probably try a Black cat Star vs the DC1.

jon honeyball posted:

you can search on here for my views a month or so back. Nothing has changed since then -- there still is no firmware that enables rip integrity checking. Metadata editing sucks. Backup/restore functions are pretty much broken. 

Rip integrity checking and backup/restore functionalities should be easily implementable. Thus, it is hard to understand why these issues are still open one year after the Core was announced. I very much doubt that the metadata editing problems will be fixed soon, however. I understand that these problems are a direct consequence of having adopted for the Core the same metadata management approach that was used in the Uniti Serve. This is based on a proprietary database with no support for user specific indexes and a very simplistic and incomplete support for classical music. Therefore, improving metadata handling would require improving the internal database. The other side of the metadata handling problem is the Core's UPnP server: if Naim decided to extend their internal database, the UPnP server would also have to be extended. Thus, improving metadata handling would require coordinated changes in three interrelated software components: the internal proprietary database, the metadata editing software and the UPnP server. Perhaps Naim simply do not have at the moment enough resorces to tackle this task.  

Gazza posted:

Oh I agree entirely, I am just restarting a hifi system and I had “bodged” it in with the plasma TV, dvd and Blu-ray player. In doing back to back testing, some cables fell out. This coincided with my dealer having a Fraim system second hand for sale. I decided this was the best VFM to sort out the cabling mess and hopefully improve the sound. I will look at digital cables again, and probably try a Black cat Star vs the DC1.

Fair enough.

M