Core Impressions?

jon honeyball posted:

or use the mojo poly to stream roon. sell the ndac/xps2dr. Sell the HDX. Sell the Core. Keep CDS1 for cd playback. Sell 52, replace with Townsend Allegri. Could probably sell one of my three 6 level Fraims. 

Rip stuff as I want it for mobile use using iMac, dbpoweramp and NAS. Replicate NAS across my sites.  

Hi Jon,

I bought a Mojo in the summer to drive my Grado headphones and am really pleased with it. I mainly stream Tidal from my iPhone 7 to it.  Be very interested to get your views on the Poly with it as I am quite keen on that too. Don't know if this thread is the correct place for it though.

I als ouse an Amazon Echo dot to bolster the options on my Mu-So when it starts acting up. Mojo/Poly could form a nice little system for my study/dining room.

Kind Regards

RR

N.B. Good to see you are not dropping your standards/expectations. 

ChrisSU posted:

Allante93 posted:

Easy for you guys, 3 weeks ago I posted the thread, 300 mile trip to the Dealer.....

"I suspect Core/NDAC would be a great option, although to put it at 552/500 level, you might want to power it with a 555. Also, you will want an internet connection for it when you rip CDs, to add metadata, which comes from an online source. "

It's 2:00 am in the US, this is when I visit Forum!

Naim Dealers are far & few over here, that is, any that actually carry Naim gear!

 

Your connections would go:

Airport - Cat5e- Core - SPDIF - DAC - 5 pin DIN - 282.

Maybe you could come to an arrangement with your dealer to buy his demo Core for you to try at home? We take a lot for granted here in the UK, where my dealer is ‘only’ 70 miles away. 

Wow! 

He who Knows, and shares is wise, Heed Him!

Dr. Somebody, but I'm starting to sound like a broken record.

Thx. NBPF, Dave, and Chris!

Out of curiosity, any thoughts on the following Front Ends:

Core>555PS>Ndac

Vs

555PS>NDS

The Forum at its Best, Informative Mode!

Enough learning for today!

Out!

Allante93!

PS. Streaming Audio

Next session:

What is Roon?

Cat5e vs Cat6

Why do some members, dislike Naim's Applications.

What  Naim is associated with Naim Apps.

Red Rooster posted:

N.B. Good to see you are not dropping your standards/expectations. 

 

Thanks.

I have had "robust" discussions with Naim over the last few days. There's quite a difference of opinion between us over Core which I dont see being adequately resolved any time soon.

Probably time for me to move on from Core/HDX/NDAC/XPS2DR

David Hendon posted:

Allante93 I think you will find that the Core rips your jazz CDs fine. Editing the metadata is a pain if you have imported 1000 albums and have to go through and tweak every one, but doing whatever is needed on a CD by CD basis as you rip them is no problem. The issue with classical CDs is that exactly the same CD can be sold singly and packaged into numerous different collections, every time the record companies think of an excuse, a birthday, death, anniversary or whatever. The metadata service tends to go with the most recently published collection, and so the album name and cover art can be totally different to what you expect, like "The Greats CD 23" instead of telling you what the music actually is.

I suspect that jazz is going to be better than classical and worse than rock, but probably no problem if you are dipping and editing as you go.

best

David

I've ripped 2,000+ jazz cds to a US without too many metadata problems.

Richard Morris posted:

David Hendon posted:

Allante93 I think you will find that the Core rips your jazz CDs fine. Editing the metadata is a pain if you have imported 1000 albums and have to go through and tweak every one, but doing whatever is needed on a CD by CD basis as you rip them is no problem. The issue with classical CDs is that exactly the same CD can be sold singly and packaged into numerous different collections, every time the record companies think of an excuse, a birthday, death, anniversary or whatever. The metadata service tends to go with the most recently published collection, and so the album name and cover art can be totally different to what you expect, like "The Greats CD 23" instead of telling you what the music actually is.

I suspect that jazz is going to be better than classical and worse than rock, but probably no problem if you are dipping and editing as you go.

best

David

I've ripped 2,000+ jazz cds to a US without too many metadata problems.

That's as maybe. I ripped all my classical CDs to my Unitiserve mostly without problems. But it all went wrong when I imported them into the Core. And ripping new release classical albums into the Core is also very uncertain metadata-wise. In my opinion the Core metadata lookup strategy is flawed for classical music in a way that the Unitiserve's isn't (maybe because Unitiserve takes the first results from AMG whereas Core uses Rovi instead.) But I've no idea about jazz.

best

David

David Hendon posted:

Richard Morris posted:

David Hendon posted:

Allante93 I think you will find that the Core rips your jazz CDs fine. Editing the metadata is a pain if you have imported 1000 albums and have to go through and tweak every one, but doing whatever is needed on a CD by CD basis as you rip them is no problem. The issue with classical CDs is that exactly the same CD can be sold singly and packaged into numerous different collections, every time the record companies think of an excuse, a birthday, death, anniversary or whatever. The metadata service tends to go with the most recently published collection, and so the album name and cover art can be totally different to what you expect, like "The Greats CD 23" instead of telling you what the music actually is.

I suspect that jazz is going to be better than classical and worse than rock, but probably no problem if you are dipping and editing as you go.

best

David

I've ripped 2,000+ jazz cds to a US without too many metadata problems.

That's as maybe. I ripped all my classical CDs to my Unitiserve mostly without problems. But it all went wrong when I imported them into the Core. And ripping new release classical ...

This suggests that the software for importing data from the UnitiServe to the Core is flawed. An import procedure should by default preserve the metadata of the original data. At the very least, it should allow users to preserve the metadata of the original data if they wish to do so.  

The problem is with album cover art in particular where the Core clearly makes a new lookup rather than respecting that part of user edits on imports from US. I told Naim this months ago but I don't think they see it as an important enough issue to do anything about it.

best

David

jon honeyball posted:

Red Rooster posted:

N.B. Good to see you are not dropping your standards/expectations. 

 

Thanks.

I have had "robust" discussions with Naim over the last few days. There's quite a difference of opinion between us over Core which I dont see being adequately resolved any time soon.

Probably time for me to move on from Core/HDX/NDAC/XPS2DR

In theory, the Core could have been a great alternative - especially for Naim users - to network players or server+network player devices like the ultraRendu, the sMS-200ultra, the Melcos, the Innuous, etc. To be a realistic alternative, however, would have required, at the very least, that the Core supports a state-of-the-art UPnP server (like, for instance, MinimServer), that it can operate as a Roon endpoint and that it support internet radio and streaming services as a DLNA/UPnP client. Beside SPDIF it would also have been nice if Core users would have been able to choose a USB output, e.g. as an option to the SPDIF output. Instead, Naim have designed the Core as a mere replicate of the UnitiServe on a new computing platform. Porting the old UnitiServe software design to the Core also did not went on very smoothly, in retrospect. I always thought that the port was to be understood as a first step. Thus, I was very disappointed when I realized that Naim had no roadmap for the Core. Given things as they are, it seems obvious that the most natural upgrade path for US and HDX users leads outside of the Naim ecosystem.

David Hendon posted:

The problem is with album cover art in particular where the Core clearly makes a new lookup rather than respecting that part of user edits on imports from US. I told Naim this months ago but I don't think they see it as an important enough issue to do anything about it.

best

David

Same here ... I found this rather annoying to be honest ... maybe I'm too pickey when it comes to metadata 

It’s such a shame that the US software is full of bugs as well. I have a Preloved US SSD on loan having loaned a US HD a year ago and ripped 800 CDs and created MP3 libraries for the car. Now it seems to think it should offer wav and mp3 for playing. I have renamed the LQ and rebuilt the library but it still shows the mp3! Seems I have to make the directory a Music Store rather than a Share. Can’t think why the code should be different other than to prevent updating metadata in a share. I can also just move it somewhere else, which is better for me.

It seems Naim have history with their software development. 

Until the Core is fixed I will stick with CDX2 which sounds better even when both play through the nDAC/XPSDR. I tried the Core a year ago and just could not face fixing the metadata errors in my large collection of classical. The US got most of my Opera collection right much of it being quite obscure!

Phil

I think it is unfair to say the US software is full of bugs - it just doesn't let you do what you want the way you want to do it. Sounds like the core software might have some issues though.

David Hendon posted:

The problem is with album cover art in particular where the Core clearly makes a new lookup rather than respecting that part of user edits on imports from US. I told Naim this months ago but I don't think they see it as an important enough issue to do anything about it.

best

David

This is very sad but not completely surprising. I have given up with the idea that something interesting will come out of the Core on May 5 2017 when Naim announced updare v5.6 for the iOS app. The accompanying note strongly suggests (to me) that they offer the Core "as it is" and that they do not plan to correct even the most obvious software design deficiencies.

Filipe posted:

It’s such a shame that the US software is full of bugs as well. I have a Preloved US SSD on loan having loaned a US HD a year ago and ripped 800 CDs and created MP3 libraries for the car. Now it seems to think it should offer wav and mp3 for playing. I have renamed the LQ and rebuilt the library but it still shows the mp3! Seems I have to make the directory a Music Store rather than a Share. Can’t think why the code should be different other than to prevent updating metadata in a share. I can also just move it somewhere else, which is better for me.

It seems Naim have history with their software development. 

{Until the Core is fixed I will stick with CDX2 which sounds better even when both play through the nDAC/XPSDR.}

I tried the Core a year ago and just could not face fixing the metadata errors in my large collection of classical. The US got most of my Opera collection right much of it being quite obscure!

Phil

Ok! 

Jon, and a number of you, have confirmed that Naim has some issues as it relates to Core.

Naimly, its metadata!

If the US fairs better than the Core, Naim should be able to work those issues out.

But let's cut to the Chase!

Assuming No issues with Classical metadata, or Jazz, which is 90% of my collection.

{Which Sounds Better!}

I sold my LP 12 to aquire Pre-loved Naim, and Activate my Briks.

Now I'm at the point, Do I introduce a second digital source DS (2) ~ Core, or purchase A Brand New Snaxo 362 & Pre-loved SC 2.

@ Jon Honeyball, and others!

Which Sounds Better, assuming no metadata issues at all.

DS (1) ~ CDP ~ CD 555/CDX2

DS (2) ~ Streaming ~ Reference Core/NDS

SOUNDS LIKE AN HI FI CORNER THREAD!

Allante93!

PS. My Present System:

HCDR > 282 ~ Analog Hub

Cdx2 > 282

HCDR > 3 x 250.2

Fraimlite

Passive Tri-Amped Briks

Next Upgrade?????????????

[@mention:45633858130670827] If the SQ is to your satisfaction loosing some to the Core or US should be satisfying enough for the convenience. The metadata is a very big distraction. Enjoying the music is what is important so you must decide.

I will stick with CDX2 until the Core is fixed and as good as the US for classical. It just means trying the Core out from time to time, which requires a friendly dealer.

Phil

Sorry, Allante, I find your postings give me a headache just trying to decode what you are saying

I dont care if the Core is the greatest thing ever made -- I find it awkward to use, unreliable in operation and very limited in its capabilities. Thats not what I want from a digital source. If I want awkward/limited etc, I will put a record on my Linn...

jon honeyball posted:

Sorry, Allante, I find your postings give me a headache just trying to decode what you are saying

I dont care if the Core is the greatest thing ever made -- I find it awkward to use, unreliable in operation and very limited in its capabilities. Thats not what I want from a digital source. If I want awkward/limited etc, I will put a record on my Linn...

Dozey posted:

I think it is unfair to say the US software is full of bugs - it just doesn't let you do what you want the way you want to do it. Sounds like the core software might have some issues though.

A bug is a none compliance with a specification. Given we don’t get to see the spec then you may be right. However, having spent my working life in software and system development, I can say that the best software design is built around reusable components. This results in a very intuitive user interface. 

I tried Music Stores and then I lost the ability to find musics within smaller stores and it seemed to mangle the data more - I seemed to lose CDs  named as  <title> CD1, <title> CD2, etc. 

Phil<

One very useful feature of the Core is that you can see CDs listed in the order of most recently ripped. So if you rip a CD and can't find it, a quick look in the "newest CDs" list takes you to it instantly. And you can then sort out the metadata so it goes where you expected it to be.

best

David

jon honeyball posted:

Sorry, Allante, I find your postings give me a headache just trying to decode what you are saying

I dont care if the Core is the greatest thing ever made -- I find it awkward to use, unreliable in operation and very limited in its capabilities. Thats not what I want from a digital source. If I want awkward/limited etc, I will put a record on my Linn...

Filipe posted:

[@mention:45633858130670827] If the SQ is to your satisfaction loosing some to the Core or US should be satisfying enough for the convenience. The metadata is a very big distraction. Enjoying the music is what is important so you must decide.

I will stick with CDX2 until the Core is fixed and as good as the US for classical. It just means trying the Core out from time to time, which requires a friendly dealer.

Phil

I think you almost got, what I'm getting at. 

1st, I only have one Digital Source, Cdx2 > 282

2nd, I enjoy it very much

3rd, I was considering the Core, for a mere $2.6K USD

4th, No local Dealers near by with Naim Gear

5th, I may take your Advice and stick with my Cdx2, until further improvements in Streaming!

6th, I hope I didn't give you a Headache!  LOL!!!!!!

Allante93! 

PS. When its all said and done, Enjoy your Music! 

Thanks to all for your positive advice, and impressions of the Core. 

Thanks jon, I  may take your negative advice and stick with my Cdx2.

Next upgrade, Snaxo 362, SC 2

Active Briks, the next best think to Active DBLs!!!!!! 

Bayer Aspirin is Great for Headaches! 

ChrisSU posted:

Allante93 posted:

ChrisSU posted:

Allante, I would suggest that you take a handful of Jazz CDs to your dealers and load them onto a Core. See what it’s like to browse them, try editing the metadata, and you should get an idea of what your whole collection would look like on an iPad. 

Easy for you guys, 3 weeks ago I posted the thread, 300 mile trip to the Dealer.

That's when all this Core stuff entered my Brain, and you were the first to co-sign that the core was worth a shoot.

"I suspect Core/NDAC would be a great option, although to put it at 552/500 level, you might want to power it with a 555. Also, you will want an internet connection for it when you rip CDs, to add metadata, which comes from an online source. "

It's 2:00 am in the US, this is when I visit Forum!

Naim Dealers are far & few over here, that is, any that actually carry Naim gear!

Thanks to Gents like yourself, I'm getting an idea of how Streaming Audio works!

Once Again Thanks!

Allante93!

PS. I'm I on Point, with the Core Connections?

Your connections would go:

Airport - Cat5e- Core - SPDIF - DAC - 5 pin DIN - 282.

Maybe you could come to an arrangement with your dealer to buy his demo Core for you to try at home? We take a lot for granted here in the UK, where my dealer is ‘only’ 70 miles away. 

My English isn't the Greatest, but some of us get! 

Once Again Thanks! 

Allante93!

David Hendon posted:

One very useful feature of the Core is that you can see CDs listed in the order of most recently ripped. So if you rip a CD and can't find it, a quick look in the "newest CDs" list takes you to it instantly. And you can then sort out the metadata so it goes where you expected it to be.

best

David

David, The US SSD is doing nicely off my NAS Share (Lenovo IX2 I bought for backups before OneDrive and Naim) now I have moved the mp3 library. The SQ with my 5m Audioquest Forrest optical cable is really quite good and seems to have got better as the US has warmed up. Nearly as good as the CDX2 into my nDAC. Have you compared optical with DC1 or similar? 

When you went to the Core did you find the SQ improved noticeably over the US? Also, can I setup the same shares with the Core without the Core trying to mangle the metadata as it would with a Music Store? Most of my stuff is classical/opera but I keep it separate from pop which should be ok.

Phil

Filipe posted:

David Hendon posted:

One very useful feature of the Core is that you can see CDs listed in the order of most recently ripped. So if you rip a CD and can't find it, a quick look in the "newest CDs" list takes you to it instantly. And you can then sort out the metadata so it goes where you expected it to be.

best

David

David, The US SSD is doing nicely off my NAS Share (Lenovo IX2 I bought for backups before OneDrive and Naim) now I have moved the mp3 library. The SQ with my 5m Audioquest Forrest optical cable is really quite good and seems to have got better as the US has warmed up. Nearly as good as the CDX2 into my nDAC. Have you compared optical with DC1 or similar? 

When you went to the Core did you find the SQ improved noticeably over the US? Also, can I setup the same shares with the Core without the Core trying to mangle the metadata as it would with a Music Store? Most of my stuff is classical/opera but I keep it separate from pop which should be ok.

Phil

No I haven't tried anything other than upnp because I need the server to serve five different streamers around the house. My impression when I first got it was that I preferred the SQ of the US to the Core, which sounded a bit brittle to me, but I haven't compared them since. The Core is good enough SQ wise that I don't feel the need to look backwards.

The Core will serve music from shares with no problem and it doesn't do anything to the metadata. The only metadata it messes with is in the Music folder in the Music Store (ie where it puts rips). I don't know how good the latest firmware is at importing from a US because this isn't something that one wants to do more than once (and I've done it twice). But anyway that shouldn't affect Music shares (but I'm not sure whether it may still change the artwork if a share is in fact a Music Store from another Naim server.....

best

David

David, Thank you for your prompt reply. Some things you say are reassuring. I will try the Core as well. Right now I’m listening to Mozart’s Requiem, and it is reminding me that the US makes the vocals and instruments more mellow (I don’t like loosing the edge/sharpness/timbre). I like the CDX2 sound more. I suspect that as it’s about jitter, and that the optical is not quite as good as the Chord Clearway BNC to BNC. The US is enjoyable though.

I have kept the US on the ring main so it cannot mess up the main system on a dedicated radial. It has to contend with the power supplies on the IX2 and BT hub5. I know the streaming fraternity change the power supplies. I have an Audioquest Pearl Ethernet cable from hub to the US which is audio quality and directional. I have not bothered about the IX yet. Should I? 

The network is very stable so far because the hub is in the lounge. I use a wireless range extender to reach the distant parts. 

Phil

Hi David,it has been a while since you rescued me and my Core,thank you for that help again.I have been enjoying all my ripped CDs,and all the music I have on a 64 GB thumb drive.However,now I think I m ready to add the rest of my music that I have on an external 1TB drive,so I have a question before I proceed.My plan is to buy a new 2 TB drive,format it to the Core while still empty,then transfer the music from my 1TB drive to the new one.Do I have to delete the 64 GB drive as a share first,before I add the 2TB drive?If I recall correctly,you are only allowed one share folder I think,is that correct?Would I do this on my PC,or with the APP?I want to have a clear plan,before I start this,just to be sure I don’t mess this up again,thanks.

No quarter posted:

Hi David,it has been a while since you rescued me and my Core,thank you for that help again.I have been enjoying all my ripped CDs,and all the music I have on a 64 GB thumb drive.However,now I think I m ready to add the rest of my music that I have on an external 1TB drive,so I have a question before I proceed.My plan is to buy a new 2 TB drive,format it to the Core while still empty,then transfer the music from my 1TB drive to the new one.Do I have to delete the 64 GB drive as a share first,before I add the 2TB drive?If I recall correctly,you are only allowed one share folder I think,is that correct?Would I do this on my PC,or with the APP?I want to have a clear plan,before I start this,just to be sure I don’t mess this up again,thanks.

Glad it's all working still.

You can have several Music shares - it's Music Stores that you can only have one of. The Music Store is where the Core saves rips made by the Core.

You should be able to take your new drive, leave it formatted as bought, transfer your music to it using your PC and then plug it into your Core. You don't need to remove the 64 GB one first unless you want to use that socket! Once it's plugged into your Core, you define the new drive as a Share (not as a Store!) using the app. It won't ask you if you want it formatting. If the Core can't see the new drive, leave it plugged in to the Core and power cycle the Core. It should show up, but this is a bit hit and miss and the next Core firmware update has a fix for that so you could wait for that.

Once you have the new drive defined as a share, the Core will automatically index the Music and present it to you on the app. It will take some time to do this. Maybe half an hour for 1 GB. You don't want or need to import the music, so don't be tempted to do that as otherwise you will hit the same problem you had last time.

i hope this helps

best

David