Speaker upgrade - Allaes with NDS/555DR/300DR/252 and Supercap DR

Just make sure the transit screws are in place when moving them.

You should take a look at the JMR Abscisse Jubilé.  It's a wonderfull speaker, at that price/performance is amazing!

http://jm-reynaud.com/abscisse...amp;___from_store=en

For superb midrange ia’m surprised no-one has mentioned ATCyet, especially SCM40 or higher with their wonderful midrange unit. Aesthetically the 40 tower might be the best. 

Personally I’d only consider secondhand or at least ex-dem, because you get more for your money...  that opens the door to higher ATCs, and a number of PMCs - (But not PMC I’d otherwise suggest.)

themrock posted:

Richard Dane posted:

themrock posted:

In the old days of HiFi ( amp, record player) there was a rule 50% to spend on loudspeakers...

Which "old days" were those?  

In my old days, the wisdom was to spend pretty much everything you had on the source (usually a Linn Sondek, if you could stretch that far) and then beg borrow or steal to get something like a NAD integrated amp and a couple of tin cans on strings for speakers (Oh OK, Maxims or Diamonds then...).

The 80s.

But in my opinion, a medicore scource with a top Loudspeaker sounds better than a top scource with a medicore Loudspeaker.

 

You are not alone!

Innocent Bystander posted:

themrock posted:

Richard Dane posted:

themrock posted:

In the old days of HiFi ( amp, record player) there was a rule 50% to spend on loudspeakers...

Which "old days" were those?  

In my old days, the wisdom was to spend pretty much everything you had on the source (usually a Linn Sondek, if you could stretch that far) and then beg borrow or steal to get something like a NAD integrated amp and a couple of tin cans on strings for speakers (Oh OK, Maxims or Diamonds then...).

The 80s.

But in my opinion, a medicore scource with a top Loudspeaker sounds better than a top scource with a medicore Loudspeaker.

 

You are not alone!

Not alone but not in the majority I would suggest.

nigelb posted:

Innocent Bystander posted:

themrock posted:

Richard Dane posted:

themrock posted:

In the old days of HiFi ( amp, record player) there was a rule 50% to spend on loudspeakers...

Which "old days" were those?  

In my old days, the wisdom was to spend pretty much everything you had on the source (usually a Linn Sondek, if you could stretch that far) and then beg borrow or steal to get something like a NAD integrated amp and a couple of tin cans on strings for speakers (Oh OK, Maxims or Diamonds then...).

The 80s.

But in my opinion, a medicore scource with a top Loudspeaker sounds better than a top scource with a medicore Loudspeaker.

 

You are not alone!

Not alone but not in the majority I would suggest.

On this forum certainly that appears to be the case. But I've heard systems akin to Richard's description above (except the tin cans did have drivers in them!), and to me it was like playing a cheap transistor radio - better than no music, but nothing satisfying about it - whereas I've heard systems with lesser front ends and better speakers that have been highly enjoyable to me.

It of course depends on what in the music most triggers one's responses - however I am not suggesting extremes, like a crystal cartridge in a BSR turntable from a Dansette type 60's record player feeding a pair of PMC BB5XBD speakers, and the amp must be capable of at least reasonable control of the speakers.

Richard Dane posted:

In my old days, the wisdom was to spend pretty much everything you had on the source (usually a Linn Sondek, if you could stretch that far) and then beg borrow or steal to get something like a NAD integrated amp and a couple of tin cans on strings for speakers (Oh OK, Maxims or Diamonds then...).

I'm almost certain my Sept 1979 issue of Hi-Fi Answers that advocates the same agreeable philosophy still languishes in my parents' attic   :-)

....

...Where's the OP?

New tack. I have an old pair of Isobariks DMS. I am going to upgrade/renew by an expert. I would be grateful for ideas as to the best drive units. The expert has made recommendations but I would welcome your ideas. 

Cross-overs might be worth looking at too. And foams.

But.....My dad endured half a motoring lifetime of rusting Hunters, Cortinas and Sierras. So I can hear him saying, 'You just want modern metal'.

Dear Paul,

You might want to consider the Sonus Faber Olympica II or III. They go wonderfully well with Naim. Sonus Faber speakers are quite fast, neutral and still warm sounding. There looks are second to none to my opinion.

iver

Richard Dane posted:

themrock posted:

In the old days of HiFi ( amp, record player) there was a rule 50% to spend on loudspeakers...

Which "old days" were those? 

The mid-1970s, IIRC.

I do have a recollection of reading in one of the hi-fi comics from that time advice to the effect that, because the sound emerges from the speakers, the speakers are the most important component in a hi-fi system, should be chosen first, and should consume most of the available budget. The amp needed only low distortion and enough watts to drive the speakers, the turntable needed only speed accuracy and low rumble, wow, and flutter, the tonearm needed to be low mass, and the cartridge needed to have a high compliance and be able track band C HFS75 at 1 g or less.

I also have a recollection that the purveyors of this advice were mystified by the discovery that swapping a direct-drive turntable for a belt-drive turntable could radically affect the sound emerging from the speakers.

And while we're on this walk down Memory Lane: Anyone remember the "musicality" debate from around the same time?

Funny, I learnt about the significance of speakers from experience, and nothing I have read of heard since has convinced me otherwise. Interestingly my experience was in the mid 70s: I did a major audition of a dozen or so speakers in a price bracket equivalent to about £2.5-£3k today, all well renowned models. Given the fairly elevated level (and IIRC there were very few speakers available at the time costing even as much as double that), I was actually shocked to hear how very different they all sounded, more than half sounding so awful to me that I rejected them after the first track.

That brought home to me how far from perfection even relatively expensive speakers were, with far greater difference than between any other component - and with such an influence over the character of the sound that getting speakers one likes the sound of is crucially important to building a system one likes.

Innocent Bystander posted:

Funny, I learnt about the significance of speakers from experience, and nothing I have read of heard since has convinced me otherwise.

Funny, I learnt about the relative insignificance of the speakers compared to upstream components from experience and nothing I have read or heard since has convinced me otherwise.

TL;DR: YMMV.

I recently upgraded from NDX/202/250 (non DR) with the Allaes to NDS/555/252/Supercap/300DR but still with the Allaes. The improvement is very substantial- the music from the speakers is more engaging and stimulating. Same speakers so the front end is what made the difference.

i have the Isobariks anyway and the cost of the renewal/refurb is within bounds so I will proceed and use both the Allaes and the Isobariks (though I don,t look forward to shifting them!). I would like low stands for them to minimise the effect they will have in my lounge. Any ideas? I have read about Mana stands. Can you still get them? 

Is there a benefit in going for treble drivers which are different from the originals?

paul

Have you found the “My Briks” site?

Yes - he is the expert who is going to do the work. He came to my house. I was very impressed. I was just looking for a second opinion. I did not ask him about stands. I should have done. I would prefer to do without them as the speakers are so big. Any views?

You have to use stands with the Isobariks to get them the right height. I thought they were always supplied with them by Linn. The last version had solid sides to hide the crossovers. 

Thank you HH - helpful as ever. I feared so. I do have the stands

If you think about it, the Isobariks have flat bottoms, so the stands with the upward facing spikes provide the necessary support, as well as getting them to the right height. It’s interesting that in your initial post you said that aesthetics are important, and then decide to use the Isobriks. I actually find them rather attractive, in a square sort of way, and I’d take them over modern shiny speakers any day. 

Aesthetics are important- I am just hoping I get away with it!

Is all well that ends well?

Thanks Christopher 

i have just bought a NAC 552 which arrives on 26/1 and my refurbed briks come on 25/1 or 26/1. I am really looking forward and will compare and contrast the briks and the Allaes. I am also going to listen to some Kudos Titan 606 and the B&W 804 D3. Any other ideas on speakers will be welcome