Five Pin Snaic & Nap 135's....

Lewis - one thing i'm curious about as i recommended you move to the Snaic5 on your 32.5 on the previous thread. How did you use a Snaic4 between the 32.5 and Hicap in the first place as this shouldn't work. The Snaic4 (and link plug) on a 32.5 would be between the 32,5 and a suitable Naim power amp (anything below a 250). The only PSU i could see the 32.5 working with (using a Snaic4) would be an original SNAPS ??

james n posted:

How did you use a Snaic4 between the 32.5 and Hicap in the first place as this shouldn't work. The Snaic4 (and link plug) on a 32.5 would be between the 32,5 and a suitable Naim power amp (anything below a 250). The only PSU i could see the 32.5 working with (using a Snaic4) would be an original SNAPS ??

https://forums.naimaudio.com/to...515#1566878606135515 - I'd had the same concern.

However, the 135s work in a specific way which logically shouldn't produce the anomalous results outlined above - hence the thought that some connection mistake had allowed the 135s to produce sound whichever theoretical channel was connected.

 Could you post the S/N of your HiCap. Only models before S/N 105469 should even have a 4 pin socket for use with a (non .5, dual rail) preamp.

PS https://forums.naimaudio.com/to...300#1566878605794300

Ah thanks Adam - interesting link - Must have been an early Hicap so that answers the SNAIC4 question. Did the 135 use 'handed' DIN to XLR cables (as per 300 / 500). If so i could see how Lewis could get both XLR inputs to work with one cable if using a DIN to XLR cable meant for a 250 instead ?

Wow, now I am even more confused!  I will post some pics of my HC and 32.5 shortly.  I have two of each, and I tried both today with the same result.  It must be something to do with the connection of the five pin Snaic, it was definitely in stereo via the four pin as certain tracks have an instrument in one speaker only etc.  Also I've set up loads of these the same way using four pin snaics and link plugs and it always works through both of the outputs on the rear of the 135, and if I swap them over the speaker is the opposite one etc. It is in stereo now, but the point I am making is that seemling only one of the outputs on the rear of the naps seem to work since dispatching the four pin snaic and link plug, and using the five pin snaic instead.  I must've had them connected correctly when I was using the four pin, as when I took out the link plug and connected the five pin snaic where the link plug goes, and teh other end to the relevant socket on the HC it worked immediately.  It is only today when I decided to check both rear outputs were working on my second set of naps did I encounter the problem.

Once it was connected before with the four pin i'd check the balance using the dial on the pre to make sure it was left and right speaker, and the correct amp when switched off corresponds with the left and right speaker.  I cannot think i'd connected anything incorrectly, i've been doing this a long time!   Surely it has to do with the five pin snaic and the fact it uses different power rails on the HC?

Adam Meredith posted:

james n posted:

How did you use a Snaic4 between the 32.5 and Hicap in the first place as this shouldn't work. The Snaic4 (and link plug) on a 32.5 would be between the 32,5 and a suitable Naim power amp (anything below a 250). The only PSU i could see the 32.5 working with (using a Snaic4) would be an original SNAPS ??

https://forums.naimaudio.com/to...515#1566878606135515 - I'd had the same concern.

However, the 135s work in a specific way which logically shouldn't produce the anomalous results outlined above - hence the thought that some connection mistake had allowed the 135s to produce sound whichever theoretical channel was connected.

 Could you post the S/N of your HiCap. Only models before S/N 105469 should even have a 4 pin socket for use with a (non .5, dual rail) preamp.

PS https://forums.naimaudio.com/to...300#1566878605794300

Adam I have just read the thread on your link regarding cables, I actually bought new cables recently with red and green bands so this must be the issue.  My old cables could be swapped between each socket on the rear of the Nap 135, whereas these new ones only seem to work on one of the sockets on each of the 135's.  It is so odd though, I am sure I tried both of the sockets earlier with these cables and couldn't get any sound - hmmm!

Ok I am just connecting it all back up again and just cannot get any sound.  If it's been connected incorrectly do the Naps need to be left a while before reconnecting or what?  So Red goes to the right plug on the rear of one Nap and Green to the left plug of the other Nap right?

Lewis - sounds like you were using DIN to XLR cables meant for a 250 which has both channels wired in so will work in either XLR  socket on the 135.

The 'handed' cables with the red and green bands you now have are wired for one channel only so if you put them in the wrong socket on the 135, you'll get no sound. CH1 (left) with the green band and CH2 (right) with the red band is the correct way and CH1 XLR is the one closest to the air inlet. 

I think this is where your confusion has come from and is not related to the SNAIC4/5 change. The SNAIC always passes both channels, the SNAIC 4 just one power rail, the 5 provides two power rails. Have a look at the pin out diagrams by the sockets on the components you have and you'll see what i mean. 

James

Lewis posted:

Adam I have just read the thread on your link regarding cables, I actually bought new cables recently with red and green bands so this must be the issue.  My old cables could be swapped between each socket on the rear of the Nap 135, whereas these new ones only seem to work on one of the sockets on each of the 135's.  It is so odd though, I am sure I tried both of the sockets earlier with these cables and couldn't get any sound - hmmm!

My quick response last night was a futile attempt to think of a way in which something-which-could-not-be-so - was so. As such I bent the Laws of the Universe and profoundly disturbed my sleep.

You actually bought new cables recently with red and green bands - glad this has been established NOW as it explains everything - apart from how you were able to use the 4pin DIN between the 32.5 and your HiCap.

The only (putting myself out on the line here) way that should be able to happen is if you have an early HiCap (pre S/N 105469) with the single rail, 4 pin socket for older preamps. Over this hovered the question - why, on earth, would you have a 32.5 and a HiCap and ever connect them thus?

Rather than follow you through your various failures let's look at the diagrams below and connect everything correctly?

Let us assume (subject to correction) that you now have your (just one of them please) 32.5 with the link plug removed and the SNAIC 5 inserted. The other end is connected to the HiCap. This HiCap has a rear panel as illustrated below. SO - your need (and can only) to plug the free end of the SNAIC 5 into ------------ socket 4.

Your NEW, colour coded, XLR leads go in - sockets 1 and 2.

That's that done - don't mess with it.

Now plug the XLRs into your 135s as illustrated below. With Red banded lead to Right (channel 2) and Green banded lead to Left (channel 1).

If it doesn't work - are all the lights on and/or did you hear a thump from both/each speaker as you turned on each 135?

Adam,

Many thanks for taking the time to detail such a good response, it is appreciated.

Ok update time, the air was / is blue in my house this morning.  I was up for hours last night swapping cables and trying all possible combinations, anyhow, i knew that I got it connected up right but it just would not work.  After some investigatory work this morning I found the issue! I was gently jiggling the cables at the rear of the pre to make sure they were all inserted firmly, and it transpires that the god dammed five pin Snaic has a dodgy connection.  No wonder it wouldn't bloody work!  Anyway, swapped it out to another one (thank god I had a spare) and et voila she is alive again!

So this would explain why this issue has only come to light since installing the five pin sanic.  Man, I have spent hours on this and was close to hurling the whole lot out the lounge window last night

Regarding the four pin snaic from pre to HC, I never knew that was the case as all the HC's I've had have worked in this way, perhaps because they were/are all early versions.

I think I should blame James as it was his idea to go with a five pin Snaic, although I have to be fair as he did not say to use a faulty one

Ok here are the pics of the rear of the HC for reference:

HC 01:

HC 02:

Pre:

Cheeky bugger 

Anyway from your pics, your early Hicap is, as Adam says, supplying 24v out from Socket 3 so that's the mystery solved of how you were powering the 32.5 via a SNAIC4.(and i've learn't something new about very early Hicaps) 

I'm glad it's all working now (and you're making the most of your 32.5 !)

James

Yes what a relief, I am just annoyed I wasted so much time Saturday and Sunday but hey ho, you live and learn eh.

Would a five pin high line work between them or is that purely to connect a source to a pre?

Hi-Line is just for a source.  

Take a look through the FAQ for more info and pictures of how to ID SNAICs and interconnects:

SNAIC ID