ATC SCM19 with 250.2?
Posted by: BritishSea on 12 December 2017
I demoed a pair of SCM 19 recently with my 252/250.2 in a small room (12x 12). I felt that the SMC was looking for more power to come truly alive and deliver the PRAT that it was hinting at. Has anyone done a A/B with a NAP 250 and a NAP 300 and this speaker to see if there is a significant gain to be had from more current? Or is the 250 felt to be generally sufficient in smaller rooms? I also demoed the SCM 11 and thought that it was sufficiently powered by the 250.
The SCM 19 may not have been truly well run past say 100- 200 hours, so its a possibility this is a factor.
Thanks for any input for those that know this range of speakers.
It all depends what you want I have a friend who drives SCM 11 with a Uniti 2 supposedly underpowered by he loves them and to me they sound really nice. Obviously they would sound better with more power but the other side of that is they will take a few upgrades.
I’ve never heard the SCM19s, but the extra grip and control the 300 has over the 250 is evident on any speakers, regardless of wheather or not they ‘need’ it. If you can afford it, do the demo!
I have no experience with the Naim amplifiers. However, as the owner of ATC SCM40 and P1, I can say the P1 never runs out of steam and keeps a control and grip on the speakers. I have a similar sized run to yours and have never been able to get the volume control much past a third of its travel.
From similar conversations elsewhere ... have you tried the active version of the SCM19 in preference to the passive version with Naim amplification? Might that bring what you are looking for?
We have SCM19 driven by a NAP 250DR and are very happy with the result. We never tried a NAP 300 with the SCM19 so can't add any specific comparison comment, although as Chrissu suggested a NAP 300 is likely better with any speaker.
I think the myth of ATC speakers being difficult to drive only applies to models before the last generation. We are only talking 2dB below "average" sensitivity in the case of recent models (I don't know much about historical ATC's)
I have last gen SCM7 &11, driven by Qute2 and Qute respectively. I'm pleasantly surprised how loud these two systems will go before falling over or sounding broken.
My Lounge gear is 272/250.2/SCM40. The SCM40's took many months of running in before they started to really "loosen up". Before that, the system had sounded too big for the room with some recordings. Now it's as tight as a gnat's chuff, and will go to ear bashing levels. I usually listen at 48-55% of the 272's output.
I agree with Eloise that trying ATC SCM19A against Naim NAP/SCM19, might bring what you are looking for.
Klyde posted:I think the myth of ATC speakers being difficult to drive only applies to models before the last generation. We are only talking 2dB below "average" sensitivity in the case of recent models (I don't know much about historical ATC's)
<snip>
Difficulty of drive of a speaker is related to it's impedance characteristics; sensitivity just defines the loudness that will be created at a given amplifier power level.
The idea that the difficulty of drive of a speaker is specifically related to a it's sensitivity is an urban myth.
I find the 250.2 a wonderful match with SCM11s... superb PRaT and punch with a wonderful finesse. I also used a 200 and a Nait XS , but doesn’t really have as full and punchy sound as the 250.2 but PRaT works well. The ATC SCM11 are not difficult speakers to drive, with having quite a benign impedance curve, but are relatively inefficient being an infinite baffle design so does need a bit of power to control... I wouldn’t generally use say an amp below 50W RMS into 8 ohms but this will vary from amp to amp...
I suspect if the sound is not infectious with the 250.2 and the 11s, I would look to your preamp and/or speaker stands. The SCM11 is ridiculously fussy on speaker stands for it to sound magical... I use open frame wooden stands and this gets it just about spot on for me. I found high mass metal stands not optimum for the ATCs
Thank Simon for your post.
I also thought the SCM 11 and the 250.2 were a good great match, powerful and and lively.
However, I struggled to get the SCM 19 to really sing with the 250.2 (non-DR). From prior posts I saw that you at one time had this combination? Can you comment on the SCM 19 powered by the 250.2 in a smallish room?
My stands used for the in-home demo session are of a light weight design (no mass loading) , but the size is for a speaker with a smaller foot print. Thanks for the tip re the stands. I will be sure to put some funds and effort towards the right stand for this speaker. The rest of my system for reference is LP12/Aro/DV XX2 MK2, 252, supercap (non dr).
Chris
All,
no doubt a 300 will improve the grip on the SCM 19s , but i would rather put that money towards upgrades on the front end of my system if the extra power will only bring benefits on the margins.
The active version of the SCM 19s would surly be powered correctly, plus the benefit of driving active, but I'm not sure that Naim preamps play well with other company'd amps. At that point I would consider selling my Naim gear and buying a balanced preamp or balanced phono stage (with volume control) for the active 19s. That's a big commitment. Not ready to give up my Naim pre/power a this point.
My prior speakers were also small monitors that needed some power to come to life. I tried the NAP 200 with them and that was flat and lifeless. The 250.2 on the other hand was a revelation and they came to song. In my original post above, I suppose I was fishing to see if anyone has had an analogous experience with the SCM 19 and NAP 300 combination? Or perhaps the gains from 250 to 300 are just incremental?
Chris
[@mention:73230011970132931] it’s a little while since I owned a pair of SCM12s.. the predecessor to the 11s and I ran them with a NAP200 and they worked fine.