300 serviced and DR - now the midrange sounds so cold / hard

analogmusic posted:

Dark bear is more of an expert on Naim than you are. 

 

 

Remind me to be impressed!!!

And you know this how????????????????????????

And my brother can beat up your brother. Do you know how ridiculous your statement is? You really should stop brownnosing these members to feel like you belong.

I never diminished this members contribution to this forum, why you took it that way, I have no idea. You are more than welcome to take his advice without question................ Just because?????????

According to your opinion, by possessing top Naim systems, you automatically become an expert, and everything that these so called experts say, you believe, or don't question. Sounds pretty naïve to me. 

Not saying that this member isn't an expert when it comes to everything Naim, just like yourself, or can hear things that no mortal human can possibly hear, I just would like to know how you came to the conclusion highlighted above, since , as far as I know, we have never met or participated in such listening tests together for you to come to such an educated conclusion. But you may enlighten me, I'm all ears.

Your money analogy above is flawed, just to reiterate, I never stated that I can't afford such luxuries, it is true I don't need to own a Naim 500 systems, keep cables off the floor, have the correct stacking order, move my amp one inch closer to the front of my rack, unlock my locking collars on my interconnect, or have twelve thousand dollar speaker cables because they are so pretty to enjoy music. I don't need to drive Porches, carry Louis Vuitton bags, or wear Chanel to feed an inflated ego like some do, or to impress everybody around me to show how important I am! Those kind of luxuries are not really important to me. Never were.

 What I have stated is that I need to hear with my own ears that the differences are worth it to ME and nobody else!!!! I make up my own mind, I don't need the blessing from forum members or listen to what some reviewer states before I make a purchase. Sorry, my money, my opinion!

That in no way belittles others decisions if they want to spend money on such things. It's mine and only my opinion I am expressing with my posts. This is an open public forum after all, correct?

This reminds me of a Smiths song, Some Girls Are Bigger Than Others. Of course owning a big expensive system doesn’t make anyone an expert. There are people with large complex Naim setups who need to call their dealer to undertake the smallest adjustments. Someone from Naim was telling me about a woman who bought her husband a 7.1 Statement setup as a present, which would cost about £400,000 and they are certainly not experts. It is a sad day when people resort to ranking the expertness of members. 

Boy, when I start agreeing with an HH post, something is definitely not right. I think hell just froze over.

well Badlands anyway as you said you don't have the ears to hear what difference SL cables make, or to go beyond a SN2 as you feel that a 282/250 isn't that much better, so I guess there's a Naim for all ears, and all wallets too

As for DB, he has made a number of quality posts while having possibly one of the best all Naim systems on this forum, while maintaining a civil and friendly tone, so yes his posts are of interest to me as I'm looking to get the best out of my system.

I've learned on this forum that you risk being attacked by some people who want to bully others to conform to their narrow opinions - I don't like it as I'm human but accept that you either take the hits and try to help anyway - or shut-up and keep quiet. Sometimes I've done the latter as I really at times get fed-up with poor human behavior.

My posts aim to help others and take nothing from them. I love this hobby and interest for the pleasure it gives me and have invested a lot in it for that - which seems to offend some, but there are generally reasons for that that have nothing to do with me.

I may be wrong or right but don't generally feel that inverted snobbery and personal attacks improved someones status. Let it go - play some music and let other people have their opinions and contribute to the forum without getting personal attacks. Trolling is never a great character trait.

DB.

I'm off to enjoy Xmas and the New Year.

badlands posted:

analogmusic posted:

Dark bear is more of an expert on Naim than you are. 

 

 

 

 What I have stated is that I need to hear with my own ears that the differences are worth it to ME and nobody else!!!! I make up my own mind, I don't need the blessing from forum members or listen to what some reviewer states before I make a purchase. Sorry, my money, my opinion!

 

to be honest, nobody really cares if you can or can't hear a difference.

We get it, you can't hear it, and you money or not, not that keen on reading your constant bad mannered posts. We all have spent our hard earned money on Naim, so not sure why you think you get some special status.

just because you can post in the name of freedom of speech, doesn't mean you should keep doing it. There is also forum civility and some general politeness.

yes it's a forum, but remember it's a hi-fi forum, and some of us do like reading, hearing and buying some of the hi-end and yes hi-priced Naim kit.

Darke Bear posted:

I've learned on this forum that you risk being attacked by some people who want to bully others to conform to their narrow opinions - I don't like it as I'm human but accept that you either take the hits and try to help anyway - or shut-up and keep quiet. Sometimes I've done the latter as I really at times get fed-up with poor human behavior.

My posts aim to help others and take nothing from them. I love this hobby and interest for the pleasure it gives me and have invested a lot in it for that - which seems to offend some, but there are generally reasons for that that have nothing to do with me.

I may be wrong or right but don't generally feel that inverted snobbery and personal attacks improved someones status. Let it go - play some music and let other people have their opinions and contribute to the forum without getting personal attacks. Trolling is never a great character trait.

DB.

 

Hi DB,

I appreciate your position. And hope these type of persons don’t scare you from contributing. Your posts are amongst the most insightful available on the forum. Please keep them coming.

Bert

As I read it, nobody said anything against DB, merely that having a big system doesn’t automatically make one an expert. In this case DB has a big system and is an expert, and his posts have helped me a lot. It was the ‘he’s more of an expert than you’ post that was silly. All any of us can do is to help others as best we can. 

Darke Bear posted:

I've learned on this forum that you risk being attacked by some people who want to bully others to conform to their narrow opinions - ...

I may be wrong or right but don't generally feel that inverted snobbery and personal attacks improved someones status. Let it go - 

 

Just remember to "... bring your f&cking dinner..." if he invites you for a listening session! 

I have noticed and posted that self proclaimed Naim sages and their groupies are becoming more and more vocal on this forum and quite frankly becoming a bit boring.

Hungryhalibut posted:

As I read it, nobody said anything against DB, merely that having a big system doesn’t automatically make one an expert. In this case DB has a big system and is an expert, and his posts have helped me a lot. It was the ‘he’s more of an expert than you’ post that was silly. All any of us can do is to help others as best we can. 

badlands posted this "just because somebody can afford the highest end electronics, it doesn't necessarily make them an expert."

Maybe you are missing the undertones, but to me it's quite rude to have said that. Yes affordability is not linked with expertise, but in the case of the said member, over the years I've learnt a tremendous amount, but I can't say the same applies to all the posts I've read.

It isn't easy once out of UK, to hear the kit for ourselves, and if it weren't for members like DB and others who share their experiences, it would be difficult to buy Naim Kit....

Anyway HH, you may look at badlands posts differently, but that's fine. I am getting rather impatient with the constant message with the undertones and underlying financial unease that is hammered by this member.

Naim is after all a hi-end brand, and if some people can't hear the differences, fine, whatever, but do they need to keep posting on and on ad nauseam about it? I Love this hobby and I will always be interested in the various tweaks to get the most out of my Naim kit.

BUT as Bob said it's getting quite boring, I certainly didn't sign on today to get into another silly argument, so maybe it's time to do as DB said, enjoy the music and let others like your good self post away with your tremendous experience.

Could Badlands and Analog just stop all this petulant stupidity. 

Rarely have I found BOTH sides of an argument so cringeworthy.

.sjb

It's Christmas, the season of arguments !

Karl

Sloop John B posted:

Could Badlands and Analog just stop all this petulant stupidity. 

Rarely have I found BOTH sides of an argument so cringeworthy.

.sjb

 

I agree. Time to move on please and if either believe it necessary to continue use the personal message facility. This thread has gone way beyond assisting the OP.

There is a degree of my systems better than your system..I've been on here longer than you ...etc on this forum

Good job it makes up for it by dishing out some good advice along with all the back bitting otherwise it would not be worth coming on here

Hi Oliver,

I'm no expert and only use an entry level (albeit) enjoyable Naim system and have on the odd occasion heard my system sounding a little 'off'. For me, it has always boiled down to a connection. I have found that a powering down and just unplugging everything and starting again has resolved the issue - I would certainly pay attention to Adam's post at the top of this page to be of importance as it may solve your issues, failing that, it will be down to your dealer, surely?

One other thing, is to maybe have an electrician pay you a visit and check all of your mains electricity, even if it means just going through all the connections in your home, ie... plug sockets, earthing, consumer unit and so forth, worth doing anyway IMHO.

Anyway, keep us posted on what you find as it will in no doubt be very helpful for all us members on this forum as to what the outcome is.

Seasons greetings 

To everybody, my comment about Bat Ears was meant as tongue in cheek, I was not attacking anybody. If I upset anybody I apologize, I didn't mean for it to be interpreted as rude, there are no negative undertones as one member had implied. There was no trolling involved. Like I stated, I never diminished this members contributions which soo many value. If it seems that way to some, it honestly wasn't my intention.

To all of those who understood what my point was, and understood what I was trying to say, thank you. To the other members who took offense, or I upset, there was no disrespect intended.

Anyway, everybody have a Merry Christmas and enjoy the holidays!

Innocent question: why has it been universally (or so) taken for granted that the 'new' DR regulator technology would automatically and implicitly make Naim gear sound better? I am perfectly aware (even though I won't bother using the search function, for sure) of having written, long ago, that the DR was the most relevant new Naim piece of equipment, but then I did personal experiments (and purchases, and comparisons). Now I am not sure anymore, as I am sure that it was not only to make a 40-years old trusted regulation system better that Naim did the DR...

Sloop John B posted:

Could Badlands and Analog just stop all this petulant stupidity. 

Rarely have I found BOTH sides of an argument so cringeworthy.

.sjb

 

Don't worry SJB

All is well in Winter La La land

Max_B posted:

Innocent question: why has it been universally (or so) taken for granted that the 'new' DR regulator technology would automatically and implicitly make Naim gear sound better? ....

Interesting question Max.  My own limited trials have indicated that DR worked absolute wonders on the 250.2 power amp. 

By way of contrast, I have a very clear preference for a serviced, olive supercap on a 52 over a run-in supercap DR on the same 52, yet the superline I tried was far happier with a supercap DR than my serviced olive supercap.  

Why?  No idea.

Best regards, FT

Max_B posted:

Innocent question: why has it been universally (or so) taken for granted that the 'new' DR regulator technology would automatically and implicitly make Naim gear sound better? I am perfectly aware (even though I won't bother using the search function, for sure) of having written, long ago, that the DR was the most relevant new Naim piece of equipment, but then I did personal experiments (and purchases, and comparisons). Now I am not sure anymore, as I am sure that it was not only to make a 40-years old trusted regulation system better that Naim did the DR...

Not long ago I auditioned a 250DR against my 250.2, and was surprised to find that I didn't prefer it. I stayed with my 250.2, and there was a small discussion of the affair here on the forum.

I suspect that the OP may just be in the same boat I was.

Whether the DR tech is at least in part a marketing scam (if I understand your implication correctly) doesn't really matter that much IMO - the proof is there for the listening, either way.

IF a very low 1 percent doesn’t like the DR amp.... it’s not a big issue

I find it virtually impossible to go back to the older non DR amps but hey ho... whatever flats ones boat musically.

Some of my friends don’t like any Naim at all and prefer and bought all Linn systems.

On the subject of hearing differences, not only are a person's ears (for which read the whole ear-brain interaction thing and training thereof) important, likewise how revealing the system through which they listen, but also the effect of the room in which it is heard - and some rooms inevitably are more muddling of the sound than others. That aside, sometimes I think that having ears unable to hear differences between various expensive pieces of kit is a distinct advantage, and certainly not something for anyone to consider as negative unless their profession depends on that level of discrimination: it surely can save a lot of money and anguish!

Meanwhile, references to Christmas by some causes me to note that it is interesting to observe the contributions from both the St Pauls and doubting Thomases of this world...