Diesel engine cars

If we look beyond the general upsetting signals about manufacturers mistreating us, Diesel is still a good economic and even clean option. I already drive for ages powerful diesels and they combine a good fuel economy with a for me pleasant way of putting the power on the road. My next one which I just ordered will perhaps be a lit less efficient, but I stay at diesel BMW X3 3.0D will be my new car....

winkyincanada posted:

tonym posted:

winkyincanada posted:

We had a diesel BMW X5. It was OK, but we wouldn't buy another one. I doubt we'll buy another ICE at all. Our next car and every one after that is more than likely going to be fully electric.

Not sure how long ago you owned one; we've a diesel X5, a pretty new one, and it's a brilliant car for our needs - carting two dogs & a fair bit of kit on the 300 miles up & down to the Lake District from Suffolk, sometimes though severe weather, in relaxed, fast, comfort. Petrol vehicle's not a viable option in the circumstances. 

We had it few years. It was the last version of the model just before the current "shape". Easily the most unreliable vehicle I have owned in 30 years. But nice to drive, for sure. Internal room for cargo in the back was actually significantly less than the Toyota RAV4 that it replaced. We bought a roof box.

Blimey, that's a bit odd! We bought a Honda CRV because it had more space than a RAV4 (amongst other things), then a BMW X3 which was a bit larger still in the boot. The X5’s bigger than both. Ours has now done 15K miles with no problems at all.

I've just had a quick look at CarWow, and whether the seats are up or folded the X5 has around 100 litres more capacity than the RAV4. 

I find it quite bazaar that despite all the current denigration of diesel cars that my big Grand Picasso is so cheap  to run.

Over 47mpg around town, £20 annual vehicle tax (a tax based on its emission) and enough effortless pulling power to tow a 1500 kg trailer.

I’m not planning going to London in it. I use the train!

Tony Lockhart posted:

I've just had a quick look at CarWow, and whether the seats are up or folded the X5 has around 100 litres more capacity than the RAV4. 

Perhaps Canadian RAV4s are bigger then their European equivalents? It's a mystery...

tonym posted:

Tony Lockhart posted:

I've just had a quick look at CarWow, and whether the seats are up or folded the X5 has around 100 litres more capacity than the RAV4. 

Perhaps Canadian RAV4s are bigger then their European equivalents? It's a mystery...

You could be right. This, from Wikipedia:

"Since the 2006 third generation model, Toyota has offered both short- and long-wheelbase versions of the RAV4. Short-wheelbase versions are sold in Japan and Europe; long-wheelbase versions in Australia and North America."

Tony Lockhart posted:

I've just had a quick look at CarWow, and whether the seats are up or folded the X5 has around 100 litres more capacity than the RAV4. 

Our measure of scale, is how much room there is when we have the two dog-crates in the back. The X5 only just had enough length and width, whereas the RAV4 fit them comfortably. The floor in the X5 was also higher (but did have a "hidden compartment" under the floor (that we couldn't access with the dog crates in, of course).

Neither the X5 nor the RAV4 had a spare tyre taking up any room (the one on the RAV hung off the door and the X5 had no spare at all).

tonym posted:

Tony Lockhart posted:

I've just had a quick look at CarWow, and whether the seats are up or folded the X5 has around 100 litres more capacity than the RAV4. 

Perhaps Canadian RAV4s are bigger then their European equivalents? It's a mystery...

Yeah, the CRV was also much smaller in the back than our RAV4.

winkyincanada posted:

tonym posted:

Tony Lockhart posted:

I've just had a quick look at CarWow, and whether the seats are up or folded the X5 has around 100 litres more capacity than the RAV4. 

Perhaps Canadian RAV4s are bigger then their European equivalents? It's a mystery...

Yeah, the CRV was also much smaller in the back than our RAV4.

Nope. “With a boot capacity of 547 litres with the seats up, there's lots of luggage space in the Toyota. That's reduced to 501 litres in the hybrid version, but that's still comparable to the Mazda CX-5, which has 503 litres. The Honda CR-V's 589-litre space beats both significantly though.”

winkyincanada posted:

Tony Lockhart posted:

I've just had a quick look at CarWow, and whether the seats are up or folded the X5 has around 100 litres more capacity than the RAV4. 

Our measure of scale, is how much room there is when we have the two dog-crates in the back. The X5 only just had enough length and width, whereas the RAV4 fit them comfortably. The floor in the X5 was also higher (but did have a "hidden compartment" under the floor (that we couldn't access with the dog crates in, of course).

Neither the X5 nor the RAV4 had a spare tyre taking up any room (the one on the RAV hung off the door and the X5 had no spare at all).

OMG! How can you possibly put a beloved dog in a crate, let alone two?

In Winky's defense, dogs are often happier in crates than travelling “loose” in cars. It gives them a sense if extra security.

Fair enough, Tony. Can't say my dog has ever been happy in the back of the car but I know he'd be even more reluctant to jump up into a cage (but then I'm a big softie with him). 

Our dogs have always been loose in the car, but unfortunately our border terrier now really hates travelling. We've tried all the usual options available but none worked, so we now have to sedate him with a pill.

tonym posted:

winkyincanada posted:

tonym posted:

Tony Lockhart posted:

I've just had a quick look at CarWow, and whether the seats are up or folded the X5 has around 100 litres more capacity than the RAV4. 

Perhaps Canadian RAV4s are bigger then their European equivalents? It's a mystery...

Yeah, the CRV was also much smaller in the back than our RAV4.

Nope. “With a boot capacity of 547 litres with the seats up, there's lots of luggage space in the Toyota. That's reduced to 501 litres in the hybrid version, but that's still comparable to the Mazda CX-5, which has 503 litres. The Honda CR-V's 589-litre space beats both significantly though.”

Ours was the previous model. The latest ones are smaller. I did the comparison about 6 or 7 years ago.

tonym posted:

In Winky's defense, dogs are often happier in crates than travelling “loose” in cars. It gives them a sense if extra security.

Much safer for the dogs, too. If you're involved in a crash, the dogs don't become projectiles, and if the car is opened after a crash by a first-responder or bystanders, the freaked-out dogs can't do  a runner onto the roads or into the woods etc.

Loose dogs in a car are also a source of distraction for many drivers, too.

MDS posted:

Fair enough, Tony. Can't say my dog has ever been happy in the back of the car but I know he'd be even more reluctant to jump up into a cage (but then I'm a big softie with him). 

Our crates are heavy-duty plastic (google "ruff tough kennels"), and once inside, the dogs can't really see out at all. The doggies are keen to jump into them, seem very relaxed in them, and travel without any issues.

About fifteen years ago I was driving behind a horse transporter which suffered a tyre blow out. It was a hot day, and the driver had her window wound down. The blow out startled their dog which then jumped out of the open window....  the lorry was doing about 40mpg. 

The dog was ok, but it was bloody disturbing to witness. 

winkyincanada posted:

tonym posted:

In Winky's defense, dogs are often happier in crates than travelling “loose” in cars. It gives them a sense if extra security.

Much safer for the dogs, too. If you're involved in a crash, the dogs don't become projectiles, and if the car is opened after a crash by a first-responder or bystanders, the freaked-out dogs can't do  a runner onto the roads or into the woods etc.

Loose dogs in a car are also a source of distraction for many drivers, too.

That's a good point, Winky. Hadn't thought of that before.

tonym posted:

Tony Lockhart posted:

I've just had a quick look at CarWow, and whether the seats are up or folded the X5 has around 100 litres more capacity than the RAV4. 

Perhaps Canadian RAV4s are bigger then their European equivalents? It's a mystery...

Nope, We used to have one before the CRV. The EU RAV4 is the same as the Canadian one. At least, it seemed to be the same to me !

Mrs D and my local-based daughter share an X3 and an X5. The X3 is smaller all round inside than the CRV. The X5 is bigger. My preference for using them in ascending order is RAV4, X3, CRV, X5.

They are all "nice" cars. The RAV4 (manual) and CRV (auto) were/are both petrol. The X3 (manual) and X5 (auto) are both diesel.

Quoting "volumes" isn't always meaningful. The shape and access to the boot area and the way in which seats fold down is important too. Golf clubs and hiking gear are different to buggies !!

Tony Lockhart posted:

About fifteen years ago I was driving behind a horse transporter which suffered a tyre blow out. It was a hot day, and the driver had her window wound down. The blow out startled their dog which then jumped out of the open window....  the lorry was doing about 40mpg. 

The dog was ok, but it was bloody disturbing to witness. 

I'll qualify our dogs being “Loose”. We've always used a dog guard - you'd be mad not to use one, a large labrador becomes a lethal missile in a crash. Because of problems with our terrier, we now travel with both dogs on the passenger seats, sitting on a dog seat cover,  wearing doggie seat belts that the fitted belts thread through. All luggage in the boot.

I had a string of diesel BMW's, my last one a 535d touring which was a great machine.  Unfortunately, living in a Labour controlled area of London, I concluded that diesel was the invention of the devil and anyone driving a diesel vehicle is fair game to tax the life out of before banning them altogether.  Of perhaps more significance, I convinced myself that depreciation will hit hard at some point in the not too distant future as main dealer used car sales falter and demand falls away.  It was with a heavy heart that I changed to a Lexus RX hybrid.  Have to admit though that as I drive like captain slow anyway, the Lexus is a remarkably comfortable vehicle.  Mechanically not a patch on the BMW re power, torque, economy; but the technology is quite impressive, refinement is extremely good and build quality appears robust.

I suspect that in the next 3-5 years, the mainstream manufacturers will be releasing all electric vehicles with reasonable range - this I think will mark the end of diesel and why I think buying diesel new from now on could be very costly in depreciation.  It will be interesting to see if Tesla can establish themselves as a long term player in the market, especially further down the price range.

Peter

tonym posted:

Tony Lockhart posted:

About fifteen years ago I was driving behind a horse transporter which suffered a tyre blow out. It was a hot day, and the driver had her window wound down. The blow out startled their dog which then jumped out of the open window....  the lorry was doing about 40mpg. 

The dog was ok, but it was bloody disturbing to witness. 

I'll qualify our dogs being “Loose”. We've always used a dog guard - you'd be mad not to use one, a large labrador becomes a lethal missile in a crash. Because of problems with our terrier, we now travel with both dogs on the passenger seats, sitting on a dog seat cover,  wearing doggie seat belts that the fitted belts thread through. All luggage in the boot.

I think that's a pretty good arrangement. The doggie belts are another approach that works well, as is the dog guard. The crates are easiest for us.

Mitt Romney used to put his dog crate on the roof of his car to take the dog on long drives. He had to hose the car down afterwards though

One observation, all the "Diesel" engined card on the market actually use Stuart engines rather than Diesel engines.

The difference is in the ignition system...

Stuart engines use stored heat ignition (they have glow-plugs), Diesel engines use pure compression ignition (no glow plugs).

As far as I'm aware, modern Diesel engines, maybe since the DPF was introduced, have glow plugs that might stay on for a few minutes after engine start. This is to burn of the nasties that might clog the DPF prematurely and give cleaner emissions. There'll be no light on the dash to indicate this. 

Also, modern Diesel engines can have pressure sensors built into their glow plugs, thus giving the 'closed loop' that Diesels haven't had in the past.