Phono stage mm advice

For the cost of a Stageline and a Supercap you are swimming in the pool of some very good phono stages......

Which would "better" the Stageline/SC will largely depend on your ears . Why are you ruling out MC cartridges?

ATB,

Mark

I've had various mc cartridges (on my old LP12: Archiv, XX1L, SPU Royal N; on my Rega P9: Apheta, Klimo Ertanax g) but i've never been impressed like i'm with my actual Reson Reca mm cartridge (it's a modified Goldringx 1042).

I've also had radio interferences with my Superline.

MM is easier, more involving and, not last, cheaper.

Vincenzo

In my opinion the Stageline works at its best as a MM stage, and with a Supercap I seem to recall once describing the sound as like an album from the Who: Meaty, Beaty, Big and Bouncy.

Of course, the much lower gain required also opens up some interesting valve alternatives.  Do bear in mind though how well (or not) these may mate with your pre-amp, as some require very specific input impedance to sound right.

However, most important question is, which MM cartridge are you using?

Ah Ok, our posts crossed. 

Re. the RF with your Superline, did you try some capacitance?

The Reson Reca is probably rather like the old Roksan Black/1042 hybrid I used to have many years ago.  A very good cartridge.

I'm surprised you weren't impressed with the SPU Royal N - aside from the tracking, one of my favourites.

Well, if you are running a P9 then the Rega Aria is worth an audition. Not familiar with your cartridge ..... the critical match is the cartridge and the phono stage . If you are looking for a more involving presentation, the Whest phono stages are quite nice I'm afraid some auditions on your part is the only way to get what you are really looking for.  Personally, I feel the Stageline is not worth the investment of a Supercap - I would look elsewhere.

ATB,

Mark

The Lejonklou Gaio and Slipsik 6 are both very good, especially with the Linn  Adikt. Good value for the money and doesn't take up much rack space. Recently upgraded from the Gaio to the Slipsik 6 and the difference is not subtle. Vinyl setup is LP12/ Radikal/ Keel/ ARO/ Adikt/ Woodsong plinth. Definitely worth a listen.

I don't have to buy the supercap, i already have it (i used it to power the superline).

I had the SPU Royal N on the LP12/Armageddon/Aro. I liked a lot, more than  Linn Archiv, Dynavector XX1L but i prefer the Rega P9 (now RP10 presentation).

For these reasons i would like to max the mm stage quality.

Vincenzo

having just bought a N272 I was considering changing out my Stageline and I tried an Arcam rplay and it was very impressive (once you flicked all the switches to match the impedance of your cart) the only problem I found is the 'hissssss' grounding issue which you do not get with the stage line.

I'm currently trying the stageline with flatcap into the 272, is there a significant difference in using a hicap dr or super cap?

Moderated Post:  Phabh, please ensure your posts comply with forum rules - specifically regarding unauthorised modifications to Naim equipment which includes non-Naim power supplies, discussion of which is not allowed here.

Hi Vince,
You have an interesting combination there with a good MM cartridge plus a very expensive phono stage (once you include the Supercap).  Music must have excellent boogie factor with that combination!

Last year, I auditioned a significant number of phono stages, albeit to go with a moving coil cartridge.  There are a couple of threads on this forum that refer; you can find them via a search.  My main finding was that neither reviews nor paper specifications gave a good indication of how well the cartridge and phono stage would match each other.  The only way to find out is to listen to them together.  I could so easily have blown £2-4k on any of several 5 star rated phono stages, for the music to sound less musical than it already did with my then modest Dynavector P75 mk II.

So, sorry, but no product recommendation here as any recommendation is so specific to the cartridge.  Instead, do enjoy the auditioning process!

Best regards, FT

PHABH

Hicap=4 cylinders, Supercap=6 cylinders

FT and others

Thanks

Vincenzo 

Rega Fono MM MK3

Vincenzo,

With the calibre of your electronics and speakers, it might be worthwhile trying a Rega Aphelion cartridge in your RP10, together with a Rega Aria phono stage.  The Aphelion is an MC cartridge, but it's a remarkable one.

If you are definitely going to stay with MM, then I'll name a few good ones for you tomorrow.  However, I'm not recommending any of them without first hearing them with your cartridge.

Best regards, FT

Hi Vincenzo,

I have tried the following phono stages with a Dynavector moving coil cartridge.  They are all highly rated and reviewed.  However, I haven't tried them with a moving magnet cartridge.  Depending on availability where you live, any of these would be worth a listen, though the stageline/Supercap is already a very good place to start.  I doubt that you will better it for under €1,000.

Trichord Diablo
NVA Phono 2 (very sensitive to placement near other electronics)
Rega Aria (hard to beat with a Rega cartridge)
Trilogy 907
Aurorasound Vida
Graham Slee (various)
Avid Pellere or Pulsus
Moon 310LP (the one I ended up buying as it went so well with the Dynavector cartridge)
Whest 3 signature or PS.40RDT
Vertere Phono-1 (like the Rega, must better than its price would have you believe)
Tron seven (valve based)

Naim's superline is a lot more revealing than the Stageline, as it should be at the price, but is suited to moving coil cartridges only.

I know I keep repeating myself but the cartridge-phono stage matching seems to be the most critical of all interfaces in a system.  The phono stage amplifies a cartridge output voltage by up to 2,000 times before sending it to the amplifier, while the amplifier only increases the output voltage by 2-3 times at "normal" listening levels.  So any loading mismatch or tonal misalignment between the cartridge & phono stage becomes very obvious indeed.  Most of the phono stages that are listed above sounded frankly mediocre with our Dynavector cartridge.  The Dynavector P75 bettered most of them in our system.  However, change the cartridge and you get a completely different story.

Happy auditioning!  FT

And people say streaming is difficult to get right!

FT, I admire your persistence!

I have a Trichord Dino2 and the Never Connected PSU which is a fine Phonostage capable of loading MM and MC cartridges and could be had brand new for half the cost of a used Supercap and I'm not sure if it will  sound better than the stageline plus SC as I never heard one.  But if you have a Rega deck then I would go with a Rega stage.

Foot Tapper- How did the Tron stack up among those on your list?

ATB,

Mark

Thanks FT

Rega turntable with Rega phono stage whichever the cartridge or with Rega cartridge.

BobTB

I already own a Superline, i could buy a new mc cartridge but i fear i'll spend a lot of money to have a less involving and "warm" sound.

Merry Christmas to all!

Vincenzo

FT -- further to Mark's post, how did you get on with the Aurorasound Vida?

I run a Dynavector 20x2 into the Dyna SUP-200 step-up transformer and am wondering if in this context the MM stage of the P75 can be beaten by these posher stages.

Mind you: what I already have sounds fantastic!

Thanks and merry Christmas!

--Joe

Joe,

I owned the Vida - used with a DV XV1s. A good, flexible phono stage for sure but just a bit too "vanilla" for my taste. It failed to engage me and I sold it on after bringing home a Whest Titan Pro. The Whest really matches well with the DV

ATB,

Mark

Vincé 2 posted:

Thanks FT

Rega turntable with Rega phono stage whichever the cartridge or with Rega cartridge.

BobTB

I already own a Superline, i could buy a new mc cartridge but i fear i'll spend a lot of money to have a less involving and "warm" sound.

Merry Christmas to all!

Vincenzo

Yes I did understand that Vincenzo but the MM setting on the Trichord is very, very good but also as you have a Rega deck the Aria MM/MC would be my choice with any cartridge.

Gammaboy posted:

The Lejonklou Gaio and Slipsik 6 are both very good, especially with the Linn  Adikt. Good value for the money and doesn't take up much rack space. Recently upgraded from the Gaio to the Slipsik 6 and the difference is not subtle. Vinyl setup is LP12/ Radikal/ Keel/ ARO/ Adikt/ Woodsong plinth. Definitely worth a listen.

Merry Christmas!

that is a great deck you got! I like it that you run an mm-stage and adikt with it. I have a Gaio myself and have been wondering about upgrading to Slipsik. Is it much better? Could you describe in what way?

regards Fred

varyat posted:

Joe,

I owned the Vida - used with a DV XV1s. A good, flexible phono stage for sure but just a bit too "vanilla" for my taste. It failed to engage me and I sold it on after bringing home a Whest Titan Pro. The Whest really matches well with the DV

ATB,

Mark

Hi Joe,

Like Mark, I found the Vida to be a near miss with the Dynavector XX-2.  It did most things very well indeed but music just sounded a bit lean or thin.  I could put up with this at first, but over time it started to wear.

I only found 2 phono stages that when put into the system sounded just right.  The first was the Naim Superline/SCDR.  It absolutely blew me away but then it is a £7k phono stage...  The other was the Moon, which was 3/4 of the way from a P75 to the SL/SCDR.  Once I heard it, the search was over.

Mark, re the Tron, I have this irrational fear of valves, in case they blow and fry everything downstream of them.

Hope this helps, FT

Fred,

The Gaio and Slipsik 6 are very much cut from the same cloth, but the Slipsik allows more music to come through. Hopefully you will have a chance to compare the two, I know that may not be easy. The improvement is immediately apparent and not subtle. It isn't cheap, but very good value for the money.

Tom

I also recently had a chance to compare my SN2 to the Lejonklou Boazu integrated. I was VERY impressed by the Lejonklou and thought it slightly edged out the SN2 in overall performance. System was a Majik LP12 and speakers were Linn Majik 140's. Limited experiment but Lejonklou seems to be making some great products for fans of Linn and Naim.

No upgrades yet to the second system. Hearing a rumor of a new upgrade to the LP12 that may be announced in January, and keeping powder dry.

Foot tapper posted:

varyat posted:

Joe,

I owned the Vida - used with a DV XV1s. A good, flexible phono stage for sure but just a bit too "vanilla" for my taste. It failed to engage me and I sold it on after bringing home a Whest Titan Pro. The Whest really matches well with the DV

ATB,

Mark

Hi Joe,

Like Mark, I found the Vida to be a near miss with the Dynavector XX-2.  It did most things very well indeed but music just sounded a bit lean or thin.  I could put up with this at first, but over time it started to wear.

I only found 2 phono stages that when put into the system sounded just right.  The first was the Naim Superline/SCDR.  It absolutely blew me away but then it is a £7k phono stage...  The other was the Moon, which was 3/4 of the way from a P75 to the SL/SCDR.  Once I heard it, the search was over.

Mark, re the Tron, I have this irrational fear of valves, in case they blow and fry everything downstream of them.

Hope this helps, FT

FT,

Few months on the way with a moon neo 310lp. Just wondering if you're using or considering the additional power supply to max out the 310lp?

Also, what gain do you use with your mc? I havev54db with my 0,5mv mc card, but not sure whats best conserning hiss reduction when on 66db..

Thanks