MU-su - Treble Bass adjustment

Hi Nuno what is the issue too much or too little bass/treble - Naim don't to tone control's you buy Naim for the Naim sound.

I got back into Naim after a 15yr time out with the Muso, lovely versatile one box product.

I found a good foot away from a solid wall helped overpowering bass.

Nuno Herder posted:

Good afternoon to all members, Merry Christmas and Prosperous New Year 2018!

Just bought MU-so and I realized that there's no possibility to adjust treble and bass besides the loudness and wall distance options.

 

Meanwhile already read that seems to be more or less "internal politics" from Naim that Hi-Fi equipment needs to be the most "pure" as possible. I also agree that this option should exist nevertheless, a "direct sound" button could probably be also an option in case end users want to use it.

 

As customer and end user of Naim products, in my opinion (hope it is important for Naim) I always like to fine tune the sound for my hears, and with this I'm not saying that I don't like NAIM setting, I'm saying I like to do the last fine tune at my own personal choice.

 

At this moment I'm about to return this excellent product that I like very much just because of the lack of this setting that is related with what I give the most importance to it that is to fine tune the Sound to my own personal pleasure as end customer. 

 

I've connected my MU-so with a network cable to the router. This one is connected to an external hard drive and an optical audio cable was also used.

 

One possibility could be to install a media player software on my PC that is connected on the same network but by wireless  (5G) that would allow to equalize all the played music. So please advise what software could be used with a good performance to reach this complement, or even better if it will be possible to update the MU-so software in order to allow the end users to choose for a "direct mode" or a "treble and bass mode".

 

Thanks for your quick support!

 

Regards Nuno.

Hi Nuno

I don't think it's "internal politics" that leads Naim to eschew tone controls, but their prioritisation of sound quality above everything else.  There are some ways round the problem.  Eg. you could use a tablet or smart phone as source connected to the Muso via blue tooth or (in the Apple case) Airplay, or wired, and use equalisation on the device.  But to me this seems like fighting the Naim ethos.  I am a little puzzled that you describe the Muso as "excellent" but then talk about returning it.  My suggestion would be either to learn to love what the Muso does so well and accept its limitations (such as no tone controls) or send it back and opt for something else.  There are many fine alternatives, so I hear.

Roger

Our MuSos sound pretty neutral. It's the recording that might be too bassy, or more often too bright. Naim is so good at musical communication that the quality/bassiness/brightness of a recording is what it is.  The absence of tone controls used to be fashionable and was indicative or "proper" HiFi. Ironically, Naim was one of the few companies who didn't supply tone controls for genuine reasons of sound quality, as opposed to just following a vogue trend.

I think there is room for sound shaping in modern systems. After all, what is DSP? But Naim will always ashew fripperies unless they can be effectively introduced without negatively affecting sound quality. They really care. It's not politics or marketing.

I'm not one who believes in the "Naim Sound". Peerless musical communication? Yes. By the bucket load. House sound? No. That implies a Naim specific coloration or distortion. Which there isn't. So far as I can hear.

If your MuSo isn't working in your room, take it back. It doesn't matter who makes it. If it doesn't work for you, it doesn't work.

Naim have always made it clear that buttons such as "direct sound" adversely affect the sound quality, therefore have never been offered AFAIK on any Naim equipment.
My Muso QB sounds just great without any treble or bass adjustment. I used the wall proximity for the location of my own units as they are close to walls but apart from that, I leave it well alone as they are sounding great!

Nuno - was playing with Deezer and realised it offers an equaliser setting (go to settings, the audio settings, the activatr equalizer) as does Spotify (settings, then equalizer).

Naim offer native app streaming and for Deezer via Chromecast.

I'd give whichever you have a try but also try an A B without, if it works for you excellent.

The mu-so's treble response drops rapidly above 8 kHz. To older ears, it can sound muffled at low volumes. A treble adjustment to bring it back to a more linear response would be welcome...

Jan-Erik Nordoen posted:

The mu-so's treble response drops rapidly above 8 kHz. To older ears, it can sound muffled at low volumes. A treble adjustment to bring it back to a more linear response would be welcome...

Shouldn't the "loudness" setting really do this?  According to the manual it "... applies a bass boost".  But most loudness settings boost treble at low volumes as well.  If so, perhaps a firmware update could make this possible (assuming the necessary processing is done in the digital domain)?

Roger

Traditionally loudness controls boost bass and treble at lower listening levels to compensate for the ear's change in frequency response with sound level.

To my ears the loudness control on the QB makes the upper bass unbearably exaggerated and so I prefer the loudness setting at off, regardless of anything else.

best

David

Obsydian posted:

Hi Nuno what is the issue too much or too little bass/treble - Naim don't to tone control's you buy Naim for the Naim sound.

I got back into Naim after a 15yr time out with the Muso, lovely versatile one box product.

I found a good foot away from a solid wall helped overpowering bass.

Hi Obsyduan, thanks for your reply!

I really bought the equipment because of the sound, just didn't know it didn't had any bass and treble adjustment. Even with loudness, for me at low sound level I like to fine tune a bit more bass but specially trebel. 

Regards Nuno

It is strange that there is no DSP manipulation facilitated by the mu-so.

Though I rarely need to use it (as I use my sub to add bass) there are some albums that need a little manipulation to take away teeth cleaning treble - which Roon facilitates:

.sjb

Peakman posted.

Hi Nuno

I don't think it's "internal politics" that leads Naim to eschew tone controls, but their prioritisation of sound quality above everything else.  There are some ways round the problem.  Eg. you could use a tablet or smart phone as source connected to the Muso via blue tooth or (in the Apple case) Airplay, or wired, and use equalisation on the device.  But to me this seems like fighting the Naim ethos.  I am a little puzzled that you describe the Muso as "excellent" but then talk about returning it.  My suggestion would be either to learn to love what the Muso does so well and accept its limitations (such as no tone controls) or send it back and opt for something else.  There are many fine alternatives, so I hear.

Roger

Hi Roger, thank you also for your reply! 

Via Bluetooth it will loose quality, and I would like to avoid that option. Via wireless it as the ability to stream lossless audio and other benefit is if your WiFi is set up to cover your whole house, you can keep your phone in your pocket and never have to worry about loosing signal. Wired can also be an option but you loose the "freedom" of wireless.

When I say MUso is excellent, I mean it's an equipment that at high sound level the bass have no distortion and neither the treble, with a clear sound. I want to say that I'm an amateur in audio, not a professional but I can immediately tell if  like it or not. 

For my personal pleasure, MUso Treble is optimised for high sound levels. At low sound levels, again, for my personal pleasure, I prefer to have an increase specially in Treble.

I'm sorry but even in your message above it was admitted that not having tone controls is a limitation and this is exactly my opinion. I don't want to love any equipment, independently of the brand (nothing against Naim, it's there choice and I respect it), that was fine tuned to other people ears but I want to love an equipment that I know it as an excellent quality and I can fine tune it in all the sound levels to my own ears.

I want to try to avoid to return it for sure but let's see what could come up meanwhile as potential options for the fine tuning.

Thanks and regards, Nuno.

Harry posted:

Our MuSos sound pretty neutral. It's the recording that might be too bassy, or more often too bright. Naim is so good at musical communication that the quality/bassiness/brightness of a recording is what it is.  The absence of tone controls used to be fashionable and was indicative or "proper" HiFi. Ironically, Naim was one of the few companies who didn't supply tone controls for genuine reasons of sound quality, as opposed to just following a vogue trend.

I think there is room for sound shaping in modern systems. After all, what is DSP? But Naim will always ashew fripperies unless they can be effectively introduced without negatively affecting sound quality. They really care. It's not politics or marketing.

I'm not one who believes in the "Naim Sound". Peerless musical communication? Yes. By the bucket load. House sound? No. That implies a Naim specific coloration or distortion. Which there isn't. So far as I can hear.

If your MuSo isn't working in your room, take it back. It doesn't matter who makes it. If it doesn't work for you, it doesn't work.

Hi Harry, fully agree with you in what is related with pretty neutral sound (for me mainly in low sound level, at high is quite ok for me), yes for sure there is room for sound shaping in modern systems with high end quality like Naim's and that's why I'm razing these questions. 

For sure it as nothing to do with brands like you say, but with my personal sound pleasure and I'm just trying to see if it's possible to join the best of both worlds.

Thanks for your reply,

Regards, Nuno.

Obsydian posted:

Nuno - was playing with Deezer and realised it offers an equaliser setting (go to settings, the audio settings, the activatr equalizer) as does Spotify (settings, then equalizer).

Naim offer native app streaming and for Deezer via Chromecast.

I'd give whichever you have a try but also try an A B without, if it works for you excellent.

Thanks Obsydian, will take a look at Deezer.

Regards Nuno.

Jan-Erik Nordoen posted:

The mu-so's treble response drops rapidly above 8 kHz. To older ears, it can sound muffled at low volumes. A treble adjustment to bring it back to a more linear response would be welcome...

Fully agree with you Jan-Erik.

Thanks and regards, Nuno!

David Hendon posted:

Traditionally loudness controls boost bass and treble at lower listening levels to compensate for the ear's change in frequency response with sound level.

To my ears the loudness control on the QB makes the upper bass unbearably exaggerated and so I prefer the loudness setting at off, regardless of anything else.

best

David

Hi David yes it's true and I'm glad that for your ears you even need to remove the loudness settings. It means that for your ears is quite well adjusted but as you also said at beginning, frequency response will react to the sound differently, and this will be depending on the person's ears!

Thank you, Nuno!

Sloop John B posted:

It is strange that there is no DSP manipulation facilitated by the mu-so.

Though I rarely need to use it (as I use my sub to add bass) there are some albums that need a little manipulation to take away teeth cleaning treble - which Roon facilitates:

 

.sjb

Exactly Sloop John, it could make sense!

Thanks and regards, Nuno!

Nuno, IIRC SJB is one of a number of people who tailor their files to sound optimal. I suppose it depends on what you are playing and what with.  Something is bound to be available. But again, if the MuSo disappoints you in this regard, it's just a very good sound bar. It's not the only one (although I believe it's the best one out there for me).

Hi Harry, thanks for your reply. Do you have more info about this point you mentioned "Something is bound to be available". For sure maybe it can contribute to my decision that would happen on next days. Thank you for your support once more.

I use dBpoweramp for ripping, conversion and tagging. There are some DSP goodies in the Windows version which I've never used.  I've also seen software for adding DSP effects to iTunes. Again, I don't use anything like this. I expect half an hour on Google will give you a short list. Sorry I can't be more specific.

I have seen some posters in here mentioning from time to time that they do post rip work for gain, tone, EQ, and that sort of thing. Not many but perhaps one of will spot this. Or a new thread with a title which might better catch their attention.

I've played with dBpoweramp DSP effects to experiment for my own interest & manipulate a track for a special effect.     All interesting,  I found the ability to add a second or so on some album & track starts to be most useful.  But graphic equalizer changes are really not needed unless its for a special effect - or you are a bass & drum headbanger..    

As for the OP comment about  "internal politics from Naim",   the  same "politics" exists for all the quality audio equipment from most every other manufacturer,  its only low end & mostly from far east that still have this stuff.