Guess the line being discontinued!

Nick Lees posted:

I'd really like to see Naim introduce a streamer head unit with the new tech. Along the lines of the Auralic Aries, with sufficient grunt to cope with whatever (reasonably) the future may hold.

That might just bring me back into the fold for my main source.

And there really is a gap in the market here, no more than Naim were willing to facilitate Linn TTs, they should treat DACs like cartridges and facilitate us  getting suitable Naim manipulated sound waves as far as them.

.sjb

Kevin Richardson posted:

If current streamers are not upgradable then I expect a mass exodus.

I just checked to be sure . . . my NDS still sounds really good.

Well I went and rolled the dice, trading in my ND5XS for a NDX, maybe blind faith that the box will have years of life left and perhaps an upgrade path/trade-in path if the technology has a shift and the mother ship wants to keep all the children onboard. The discounted price of the NDX and trade-in value of the ND5XS made sense to upgrade the source at this point in time. It will be two or three weeks before the box arrives in the shop. I found a lot of value in the ND5XS and feel confident that the NDX will serve me well for the foreseeable future.

Seakayaker, I'm sure you won't be disappointed.  Nice move!

NickSeattle posted:

Good news for those who prefer the economy of buying the old model, as ever.

Nick

+1 In fact that might be the only realistic roadmap to NDS level for me :-) 

Nick Lees posted:

I'd really like to see Naim introduce a streamer head unit with the new tech. Along the lines of the Auralic Aries, with sufficient grunt to cope with whatever (reasonably) the future may hold.

Along with a new up to date ndac would be great.

Kevin Richardson posted:

If current streamers are not upgradable then I expect a mass exodus.

I’m sure they will be, I think one calls it trade-in via your dealer. From a conversation I had a few months back with a senior Naim employee, I was told they are moving away from creating largely modular internal designs... what I call ‘ Frankenstein’ designs, because of their resultant sonic compromises.

But even if not there will be no exodus, the current streamers will be as good as ever.. and I personally think they make great streamer transports.. and have a setup setting to optimise themselves for transport mode (and disable the internal DAC and oversampling DSP functions) for best possible transport performance... a great feature when using off board DACs... and allows the NDX in my experience to be a phenomenal streamer transport.

As some have said above, the existing streamers will be just as good as they are now even when they are superseded by their new platform replacements. That said, I’d suggest that anyone upgrading on the assumption that the new platform will be retrofittable into the current boxes should be prepared for a disappointment when it is announced that this will not be possible. 

well it will be interesting to see what is upgradeable or not.

Linn are upgrading the KDS.

And Naim did allow an upgrade from a 250 to a DR amp. In case of a 500 it was a whole new board.

So why not.... 

I have an NDS and it sounds fantastic to a point I can’t imagine how it can be improved.

if Naim are bringing out a new model it makes no difference to me, the NDS is staying until it cannot be repaired or becomes uneconomical to repair. Functionally it does everything I want it to do. 

Ok, one rumour I have heard, is the NDS sourcing 44.1/16/2 is considered by some apparently not quite on a par in terms of Naim ‘emotion’ as the CD555, and a design might be in the works that takes Naim clearly on from the CD555 performance... but as I say .. only a rumour 

The NDS has been used to demo (and develop?) the Statement amplifiers, so Naim must consider it to be a pretty decent source. There will have to be some significant improvement in audio performance (not just functionality or appearance) to justify the release of a replacement model at what will inevitably be a much higher price.

I find it curious that the NDS and NDX are both marketed as Classic level, when there is a clear audible difference. 

All I want to see is if the streamer board in my NDS can be upgraded so that the NDS can have native Roon Endpoint support, as with the latest Uniti range. Other than that I don’t see an other improvements/functionality in a trickle up approach that would improve the existing range.

A revised high-end DAC design, for a Statement class Streamer, Is a big undertaking, most of their focus is on box-shifting the Uniti range into a more mass market product proposition.

ND555 is that not a NDS with dual 555DR PSUs?

Could we not have a 555DR optimized as the 2nd PSU for the analogue supply, i.e. stripped down without the voltage rails for the Digital circuits, then more DR circuitry in the spare space?

Simon

Clive B posted:

I find it curious that the NDS and NDX are both marketed as Classic level, when there is a clear audible difference. 

and the 202 and 252 are both marketed as Classic level, and there is a huge audible difference... there is quite naturally a performance hierarchy within the Classic series.

Buy the best DAC and use a rendu or auralic G2 or innuos as frontend. With this, you de-couple formats and services from the „Sound Engine“. I run such a setup for years and I‘m always up to date. Many here in the forum did this as well... look for the hugos, daves, etc :-)

ralf

simes_pep posted:

A revised high-end DAC design, for a Statement class Streamer, Is a big undertaking, most of their focus is on box-shifting the Uniti range into a more mass market product proposition. 

Well I hear with some of the recent  changes in the Naim leadership, we might be seeing more of a focus back into the core Naim principles of SQ first over mass appeal consumerisation (box shifting). So if true I wouldexpect to see more focus on separate boxes/decoupling again and SQ first over lifestyle designs.. what Naim call their ‘DNA’.

simes_pep posted:

All I want to see is if the streamer board in my NDS can be upgraded so that the NDS can have native Roon Endpoint support, as with the latest Uniti range.

I think this is exactly the kind of “expectation management” that HH was advising. Roon in particular is not likely to be added to existing hardware.

Phil (and others from Naim) have said here quite often that it is not on their development roadmap to produce upgrade boards for existing boxes, and that the new features enabled by the new (hardware and software) Uniti platform cannot (and will not) be added... They are closing off development for older platforms in this sense... so new gen replacement Classic boxes with the new (integrated board) platform and full on power and signal optimization seems like a much more likely option imho, given the fairly consistent messaging over the past year...

As to how they will break out the boxes, offering different combinations of components (streamer only vs streamer+DAC being the main topic here), I think that’s anybody’s guess... Naim have their own view on what should and shouldn’t go together (eg their firm view that internet radio and access to online as well as local content has no place in the Core... ”because server”... which is a unique perspective afaict). 

Regads alan

But the box shifting is also needed to generate the revenue to fund the R&D, as it is not just analogue circuitry, PSU designs which make up their ‘DNA’ but complex DSP, firmware, ‘standards’ support for the accredition tick boxes and the ongoing support of applications for mobile devices which change with each new model & OS - this is hard to fund outright for an existing business with an existing customer base to support and also do well as a complete provider, easier to do as a niche provider of just one product type, e.g. DACs

I would expect very churn in the HighEnd products and most of the focus still to be in the single box range as these are easier for the dealers to sell, easier to support, plus Naim have invested heavily in this range they need to get the return & for a manufacturer, a full production order book is necessary.

But the Streamer board is a separate component, as an update was offered to early NDX owners for 24/192 support over the initial 24/96, and with separate boards in the NDS for the analogue output of the DAC, none of that needs to be changed with a ‘front end’ to have the data feed is sourced/managed.

However it does depend on the size of the NDS, NDX, ND5XS installed base & number of possible sales as a % of that base.

On 16/44.1 playback the NDS does an excellent job, from what is a limited format for digital reproduction, the Redbook standard was 1983. However I now have over half my music library in HiRes and expect the proportion of 16/44.1 format to be decreasing over time, i.e, replaced with HiRes reissues or new music in 24-bit formats.

Still buying Vinyl though & having both LP & HiRes versions of some albums!

Hi All, just placed an order for nds/555ps dr yesterday (moving from NDX) so somewhat disturbing to imagine nds could soon be updated and those updates may not be fitted retrospectively. I would hope Naim would factor existing loyal clients into their decision making. 

simes_pep posted:

But the Streamer board is a separate component, as an update was offered to early NDX owners for 24/192 support over the initial 24/96, and with separate boards in the NDS for the analogue output of the DAC, none of that needs to be changed with a ‘front end’ to have the data feed is sourced/managed.

That pre-supposes that the “new” NDX, etc. uses a similar / compatible internal design architecture as the existing NDX... which is a big assumption.  As I understand it (and this may be completely wrong) all streamers prior to the new Uniti line up used third party streaming hardware which required Naim to adapt to the third party design.  For the new Uniti lineup Naim brought all that in house so can build exactly what they wanted.

The latter being incompatible with the former!

Paul has stated in interviews that a Statement level streamer is in development. Not really a revelation, since anything Naim can think of is in one form of development or another.

Also lacking is a Streamer at the level of CD555. Something with up-to-date fluff included would sell. Maybe not to us unless it sounded better, but people would still go out an buy it. Thankfully, this will not be the case. Whatever comes next will be sold on sound quality before new features. Which is exactly how it should be.

The DAC in the DAC and the NDS  implementation in particular is world class for musical ability. Still one of the best you can buy. So a ND555 is going to have to be very special indeed. Where are they going to magically find a new DAC which wipes the floor with the existing one? I think it's more likely to be mechanical and electrical design and engineering. And some software development. And if it still doesn't sound good enough they'll go back and start again.

I personally never liked the presentation of the CD555. Impressive and obviously comprehensive as it was, to my ears the CDS3 sounded somehow more natural and less like it was showing off, just because it could. I'd be very happy if a still mythical ND555 mirrored the old CDP range in musical presentation.

RM posted:

Hi All, just placed an order for nds/555ps dr yesterday (moving from NDX) so somewhat disturbing to imagine nds could soon be updated and those updates may not be fitted retrospectively. I would hope Naim would factor existing loyal clients into their decision making. 

I have the same combination and it'll be a very long time until I move on. If you liked it enough to order the chances are you'll still like it going forward. No matter what they do it'll be a very hard act to follow so I wouldn't worry in the least. Anyhow, this is all speculation - along with previous hints that the Classic range was about to be junked. I think that one was squashed too. Anyhow if Naim is planning a Statement level streamer it'll be way outside my price point

RM posted:

Hi All, just placed an order for nds/555ps dr yesterday (moving from NDX) so somewhat disturbing to imagine nds could soon be updated and those updates may not be fitted retrospectively. I would hope Naim would factor existing loyal clients into their decision making. 

If you substitute ‘may not’ for ‘will not’, then you can decide whether to stick with the NDX for now. It depends on whether the extra functionality of the new platform is important. You can guarantee that the replacement box will do more, but it may or may not sound better. 

My personal wish is for a higher level streaming preamp that doesn’t have an inbuilt power supply and can use both feeds from a 555PS. It may be that this is simply impossible given the constraints of fitting the streaming and preamp components into a single box. Though Linn manage with the Klimax DSM.